bunny hopping

[Craggeh]

You're obviously not happy with the game, since you want to abuse a bug in the engine

I'm very happy with the game, actually

 

One last time, and the last thing I say on this particular topic...

 

Strafe jumping does NOT null force speed - without speed strafe jumping I can catch a strafe jumper with no problems whatsoever.

 

me out.

[FWB]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Now why don't you tell me how the word "cheating" applies to strafe-jumping? Hmm? Let's see: "To violate rules"? No, there is no rule saying that: "strafe-jumping in CTY games is banned and outlawed." Well, only if it's you who's made up the rules.

 

So what if there is a bug that allows you to become invisible? Is that not cheating? Just because it is part of the system does not mean it can by definition, not be cheating. That is why I brought it up. There is no black and white line on cheating, though you seem to think it exists. As for bunny-hopping, well I think it is cheating. You seem to be pissed off at this notion, but it won't stop me saying so. The thread is about it. If you are incapable of keeping on track with the topic then I suggest you create another thread where you can throw your insults (through all my time online I've amazed that people continue to believe they have any impact) around.

 

It also... I'll say it again... imbalances the game. The force speed is of no use. I notice you've avoided this issue throughout the entire "debate".

 

Neither do the definitions contain any reference to "Bunny-Hopping." Thanks for proving my point so concisely, bunny-hopping is not cheating, and your belief that it IS cheating, is wrong.

 

By the same argument neither is an aim-bot cheating.

 

Oh, how wonderfully condescending of you, my little smickering dumpling! What next? Would you dazzle us with the remainder of your enormous repertoire of snide gibberish?

 

Hey, if you see something condescending there, well then that's your problem. Perhaps it is something inside of you you should investigate.

 

Nor should you fall into the trap of believing that your idea of what a Star Wars game should be about, is important in any respect.

 

I hope you realise the same of your's. I have not once denied the fact that it forces people to play the game a certain way, but you seem to be blind to the fact that any support of it does the same.

 

Ahh but you are not me, a fact which I am eternally grateful for. Irony is, and I quote once again from Collins: "The humorous or mildly sarcastic use of words to imply the opposite of what they normally mean." or: "incongruity between what is expected to be and what actually is," So if I were to say that your arguments are adult, well-formed and based around factual ideas rather than your own self-interests, I would be using irony.

 

Ohh dear, you are a poor-sighted person:

 

Irony: Use of language with one meaning for privileged few and another for those addressed or concerned.

 

Once again, I suggest you take an English lesson... perhaps an eye-test would be better.

 

So! You would support the taking away of Force Powers from gunners. This says it all. You are only interested in obtaining a larger advantage for yourself in a game, because you have not the stomach to learn how to use a gun, yet you wish to play on guns servers. Petty. You would support the act of spoiling the game for gunners.

 

I've asked you to do this a number of times, but you obviously don't understand it... please read my posts. If you had, you'd actually see I prefer using the guns. This rest of your comments regarding this are pointless since you've assumed wrongly.

 

As for the removal of force powers... once again you don't read my posts. I clearly stated it was from a reply to an e-mail someone sent to Raven (it is in the forum if you want to look). The developers themselves believe there is an imbalance here. I support it. Please, do your research before even beginning to design a response.

 

Oh I'm quite sure that there are some people who don't give a hoot about winning. You however, are not among them.

 

Thanks for telling me what I am.

 

Well, let's just say compared to an obsessive, I'm a positive picture of serenity.

 

Says the guy who has also dedicated such long posts to this.

 

Well, all grammar (or lack of it) aside, I post here to air my views. Your views and mine appear to be in conflict, so a debate has emerged.

 

Well it seemed like a debate until you resorted to such childish comments. Why is it so many individuals have to resort to such language? The topic was still in focus until you decided to move it with comments on "fanboys" and "obsession". I'm more and more convinced that everyone's a bully on the internet.

[70-228]

You lost the plot buddy, and don't know your "gaming history"

If you can tell me what the Ziggurat cheat was then I'll believe you know "gaming history"

[Fyunch Click]

Whew! Flames getting a bit hot in this thread!

 

Everybody calm down! It is after all just a game. This is after all an Internet forum and lets face it not everyone is going to agree with one another.

 

I think we've found some folks here who don't. I'm not saying hug and make up just tone it down a bit and try not to attack one another. Differing opinions are what makes the Internet great, not flame wars.

 

 

/me runs in case any flames shoot my way.

[Obi-Cyph]

Originally posted by G-Ninja

Hey, its not even unrealistic - in a game where you can force jump 8 times normal height, bunnyhopping fits in well in my opinion.

 

Only one problem with saying that G-Ninja - Force jumping is a deliberate part of the game, and it's a part of the SW Universe. Bunny hopping is not.

[Swamp]

Originally posted by Mafia_Jabba

-conclusion....Join a server w/ rules setup...thats the end i guess

 

seeing as how i doubt it will be removed, this will be the only option in the end ...

 

 

i still am not completely sold on the idea that it is soo horrible, and i definately don't agree with it, i guess im in the middle ...

[Spider AL]

So what if there is a bug that allows you to become invisible? Is that not cheating?

 

No my son, if it comes with the game, ready and able, it's a bug. It occurs to me that you're confusing "cheat" with "cheap." Yes, there's only one letter's difference, but you really should try your best to spot these things.

 

If you want a bug to be removed, petition Raven. Whining at me, does you no good on that front. But it's a vaguely amusing distraction from the humdrum world around us for a few minutes a day. For that, I thank you wholeheartedly.

 

As for bunny-hopping, well I think it is cheating. You seem to be pissed off at this notion, but it won't stop me saying so.

 

You could scream it to the high heavens mate, doesn't make your opinion any less flawed. A bug is a bug, if you don't agree with it, fine. Petition Raven. But frankly, all this complaining is just sour grapes, and the only "pissed off" person in this room, is you.

 

You said that bunny-hopping:

 

imbalances the game. The force speed is of no use. I notice you've avoided this issue throughout the entire "debate".

 

As a matter of fact, I've addressed it several times. I have stated, and will again, that bunny-hopping can carry on forever, or it can stop today, and either way it will make no difference to me. I simply don't care about bunny-hoppers, no more than I care about people using Force Speed, or the Strong stance, or the Disruptor. There are ways of taking them out, good teamwork in CTY one example. If you can't find someone to play with you as a team on a server,.. well, go find someone.

 

On a side note, Force Speed has uses other than increasing forward speed, which you're obviously unaware of, and I'm not going to disadvantage your righteous opponents by informing you of them. You'd probably try to have them removed, anyway.

 

By the same argument neither is an aim-bot cheating.

 

If I'm not mistaken, knowing comfortably little about cheating methods, a Quake 3 aimbot usually must be added to your system to work, having been downloaded or compiled by you. Therefore, it is a cheat. Strafe jumping is a bug, like Supergrip was in JK. You could do it without altering your game. If there were an unintentional Quake aimbot that could be activated "out of the box" as it were, then it would be defined as a bug, and it would be the choice of the community whether to petition Id to remove it. Having said that, bugs are available to be exploited by everyone, so it's up to the individual concience of each player to choose. I personally never touch bugs.

 

if you see something condescending there, well then that's your problem.

 

Actually being condescending is your problem. One of your problems. One of your many problems.

 

I have not once denied the fact that it forces people to play the game a certain way, but you seem to be blind to the fact that any support of it does the same.

 

And who's supporting bunny-hopping, other than your imaginary friend? For the last time, hopefully, I don't give a hoot about bunny-hopping. I care about guns with Force being preserved. Something, you wish to destroy. Shame on you.

 

Ohh dear, you are a poor-sighted person: Irony: Use of language with one meaning for privileged few and another for those addressed or concerned.

 

And your source for that definition? I provided mine, or have you never compiled a list of sources/bibliography?

 

Once again, I suggest you take an English lesson... perhaps an eye-test would be better.

 

Aww "I wub ur widdiw insuwts." For someone with your obvious "flair" for grammar, you bandy the English lesson thing around a little too freely. But you bandy everything around too freely, from your tenuous opinions to your fundamentally flawed ideals.

 

My ask what you're obsession with posting here is then,

"Exqueez my!" who was your English tutor then, Jar-Jar Binks?

 

The developers themselves believe there is an imbalance here. I support it.

 

Ahh so whatever the developers decide is the "right thing," is that what your argument hangs on?

 

Then... what about the fact that they left bunny-hopping in? That doesn't seem to have pleased you too well.

 

it seemed like a debate until you resorted to such childish comments.

 

Now that's hypocritical. (Not ironic.) Childish comments, like... ohhh "you need to take an English class," or "Ohh dear, you are a poor-sighted person?" Physician, heal thyself.

 

Thanks for telling me what I am.

 

Someone has to mate, otherwise you'd just be obliviously unpleasant.

 

I'm more and more convinced that everyone's a bully on the internet.

 

lol I'm a bully? You're the one who's trying to force his view of what JO should be like onto the entire Outcast playing public. Your hypocrisy stuns me friend. Either you're intentionally selfish, or... god knows. Good luck in your petition to Raven... You'll need it.

[hughJ]

"what about the fact that they left bunny-hopping in?"

 

considering we're talking about Raven here.. whom have made more Quake-engine adaptions than I can count (every single Quake having some form of bunnyhopping/strafejumping) I guess the (honest) question remains, why didn't they remove it?

 

it's been able to be dealt with in other games through various methods.. why not here?

[Zodiac]

Originally posted by Fyunch Click

Whew! Flames getting a bit hot in this thread!

Everybody calm down! It is after all just a game. This is after all an Internet forum and lets face it not everyone is going to agree with one another.

I think we've found some folks here who don't. I'm not saying hug and make up just tone it down a bit and try not to attack one another. Differing opinions are what makes the Internet great, not flame wars.

/me runs in case any flames shoot my way.

 

Exactly!! All this bickering is no good at all:

Will some anti-bunny-hop person convince a bunnyhopper to stop doing it by posting a lot on these boards? NO

Will a bunnyhopper convince a anti-hopper it's all good an legit? NO

I haven't seen anybody yet who said: "oh ok, you're so right, all your posts have convinced me that bunnyhopping IS good/bad!".

 

This is the internet, I've seen so many discussions on many forums, always one group who's against something, and one group who is for something. And it always ends up with one group who's against something, and one group who is for something.

 

So just... stay objective.. stop the personal insults.. RavenSoft's the only one who can do anything about it, so address your points to Raven, and don't flame personal insults at some dude behind his pc.

[TheDarkSide]

I think we may have accidentally stumbled upon the third topic beyond religion and politics that its just plain pointless to debate over.....bunny hopping

 

I think everyone has said their piece, and each additional post seems more like a waste of bandwidth. I smell a closed thread in the air....

 

TDS

[70-228]

Will some anti-bunny-hop person convince a bunnyhopper to stop doing it by posting a lot on these boards? NO

Actually once upon a time I was a pro bunny! That was quite a few years ago though. However it was threads like these combined with the effect it had on one of my favourite games that changed my mind. Basically the game I like was dying when a few people rediscovered strafing and within months the game was dead.

 

These threads "can" open people's eyes. However most don't actually reveal the fact as it can be an ego bruising experience to admit when you're wrong.

[Pvt_Dancer]

Well, its like I said... just agree to not play together and where will the problems lie? If you don't like bunny-hoppers don't play with them.... and vice versa ... if you don't like each other then avoid playing against each other....damn.

 

This thread is like the wars that have been going on in the middle east for centuries. They've been going at it for so long with so many casualties that neither side will give up the ghost just out of sheer spite and pride. They don't even know what they're fighting about now and Im not sure I do either... is the arguement about strafe-jumping, winners vs. losers, guns and the Force or is it about grammar? Or is it about whos pen15 is bigger?

 

I forget.

[Trienco]

>No my son, if it comes with the game, ready and able, it's a bug. It occurs to me that you're confusing "cheat" with "cheap."<

 

ah, so if you enter helpusobi 1 youre not activating the cheats but youre exploiting a bug? if you enter CHEAT-codes in any game youre only using a bug?

that definition is too simple to work and though i dont agree 100% with someone saying bug exploiting is cheating i agree with that a lot more than 'hey, its in the game so its fair to use it'.

 

it's quite simple:

-someone is using it and you dont like it: vote for a kick and see if the others share that opinion or leave the game

-you are using it and get kicked: dont be surprised

[Prox Kolari]

Bunnyhoppers -- bug, cheat, legit, whatever you want to call it -- do you at least concede this, and only this: if you saw Luke bunnyhopping in Star Wars fighting Vader, would you think it was retarded-looking?

 

You're playing a Star Wars game. Let's say the developers were on crack and added an old-style tommy gun from the '30s. But it worked pretty well. Would you use it with no complaints, or would you say "it works great, but... I don't know what it's doing here."

[FWB]

Originally posted by Spider AL

If you want a bug to be removed, petition Raven. Whining at me, does you no good on that front. But it's a vaguely amusing distraction from the humdrum world around us for a few minutes a day. For that, I thank you wholeheartedly.

 

I dread to think how boring your life might be that you get kicks from this.

 

You could scream it to the high heavens mate, doesn't make your opinion any less flawed.

 

My, what an open-minded person you are.

 

And your source for that definition? I provided mine, or have you never compiled a list of sources/bibliography?

 

I would have thought the eye-sight comment would have given that away. The same source as yours... a dictionary, the Oxford dictionary to be precise. But it appears you only read the first line of anything printed. I'll have that apology now.

 

Ahh so whatever the developers decide is the "right thing," is that what your argument hangs on?

 

Then... what about the fact that they left bunny-hopping in? That doesn't seem to have pleased you too well.

 

Developers are aware they make mistakes. That is why they seek to correct them. I didn't say the developers support it and thus so do I, I said that I happen to agree with them.

 

Now that's hypocritical. (Not ironic.) Childish comments, like... ohhh "you need to take an English class," or "Ohh dear, you are a poor-sighted person?" Physician, heal thyself.

 

Nope. If you read the sentence again you'll note I'm refering to you starting the insults. Another misreading on your behalf. You really need to think when running through the posts.

 

lol I'm a bully?

 

I didn't say that.

 

It seems I have touched a never with my general comment though.

 

You're the one who's trying to force his view of what JO should be like onto the entire Outcast playing public.

 

Do you not see you are doing the same? Whether it be defending those who "cheat" or supporting gunners and force usage.

[WhiteChedda]

Originally posted by hughJ

"CS aswell as HLDM run on the quake2 engine so bunnyhopping was possible"

 

HL/CS/TFC run on a modified Quake1 engine, not Quake2..

 

the bunnyhopping mechanics for HL/CS/TFC are slightly different than that of Quake2 and Quake3, due to the relative low amount of air-control involved in Quake2 and Quake3, compared to HL...

 

...

 

When will the which version of the quake engine is HL on

discusion DIE!

 

According to valve they STARTED with the original Quake [with opengl renderer] source code, and were given SEVERAL updates by id, who was molding the quake engine into the quake2 engine, leaving them somewhere around the quake 1.5 engine.

 

Chances are the bunny hopping "feature" was in those UPDATES, so......... Rasafrackin tangents to the point of the thread.....

[Synk]

Bunny (Strafe) jumping nor roling DOES NOT eliminate the use for force speed. Granted you can move lineraly faster with these techniques but force speed has other uses than running away.

[Jiro Kage]

Originally posted by 70-228

If you can tell me what the Ziggurat cheat was then I'll believe you know "gaming history"

 

 

Unlike you, I don't follow the cheats in a game. In fact, it could be the name for something that I know as something different. Ie, Gotwalls and AA are often mislabeled as the same thing.

 

However, I have one word for you....boom.

[BlackAria]

It didn't start with Q1 until the quakeworld mod became popular. After that, Q1 was split up into two comunities, Netquake and Quakeworld players. It was Q2 that made it a intergraded part of the game. I could never play Q2 without strafe jumping, it was second nature to most Q2 player, I do it without even thinking about it. Which I guess hurts me since Q2 as I automatically try to strafe jump in every fps I try, lol. In Q3 they reduced it to only 2 starfe jumps in a row. I haven't played Q3 in over a year so I don't know if this changed as I switched to UT. I still love Q2/Q3, and I'll always think of myself as a Quaker, funny how games become part of you. As for the jumping in JKII, I think this won't be looked at by Raven until JKII gets into big lan tournaments and online tournaments, this is when most of the changes come when tourney players start to complain and the organizers of the tourneys set standard rules for gameplay.

 

BA

[Fyunch Click]

This is in regard to Competitive play:

 

As of now the TWL is not considering it a cheat and it is not banned in ladder play.

 

That said, the TWL isn't running CTY ladders at this moment either.

 

Competition is starting now. Give us, the folks in the ladders and leagues, some time to deal with it. We're going to hammer the game to death, if something sucks then we'll vote to have it removed from the ladders and see if Raven can do something about it, or we'll get someone to create a Tourney Mod that prevents it.

 

As to pubbing?

I play on a pub to relax and have fun. True coordination doesn't happen on pubs. Never has, never really will at least not until we can all talk directly to one another without voicecomm progs. So don't whine, just ask the offending player to stop, if that fails vote to kick, if that fails go find another server. It isn't like there's only 10 servers out there.

 

{BTW, Don't flame me, I'm just trying to cut through to the heart of the argument and bring it to a civilized resolution. }

[Spider AL]

I dread to think how boring your life might be that you get kicks from this.

 

Aamof my good, dear friend, "For that, I thank you wholeheartedly." etc. was irony. Something you're not too familiar with, I understand.

 

The same source as yours... a dictionary, the Oxford dictionary to be precise.

 

Ohhh a fact you may not be aware of: Different dictionaries use different wording in their definitions. Or do you think that all dictionaries by all scholarly publishers are printed exactly alike? lol It's not my eyesight that's at fault, it's your apparent belief that all lingual reference books contain the same print, verbatim.

 

As for the definition itself, it proves my point. "Use of language with one meaning for privileged few and another for those addressed or concerned." bears no relation to my previous posts. I stated that your attempts to warp the game to your idea of what Star Wars should be like, was selfish and self-interested. You contend that I am guilty of the same thing, so you're still confusing irony with hypocrisy and you can add dithering incomprehension to your loooong list of personal faults. Once again, you prove my point admirably. Thank you! You are truly a gift to anybody with an opposing viewpoint to yourself.

 

Throughout this thread you've made it clear that you consider yourself the person with the "correct" viewpoint, qualified to tell game-developers when they've made mistakes by leaving such things as bunny-hopping in? Truly you are a godlike figure!

 

Let's be clear, you're the one who wants to alter the engine to disadvantage guns/force users.

 

I'm refering to you starting the insults.

 

Care to point out where I started the insults? Just so that the good people here can see what innocuous statement sent you off into this blind, self-righteous and self-aggrandising chain of posts, naturally.

 

And re: you calling me a "bully," you state:

 

I didn't say that.

 

Ohh you didn't eh? Let's see:

 

I'm more and more convinced that everyone's a bully on the internet.

 

Yes, seems a pretty clear and plain case of childish sideways implication, but if you say it's not, I'll believe you.

 

But on a completely different subject, here's a "general comment," (unrelated to you of course,) I'm more and more convinced that "everyone's" an arrested, whining loser on the internet.

 

It seems I have touched a never

 

Jar-Jar's really making you study hard, isn't he.

 

Do you not see you are doing the same?

 

Actually what I'm doing is pointing out your blatant selfishness, in wishing that gun-users be penalised for using guns by having their Force powers taken away. Shame on you, and those who share your view on the guns/force subject, for forcing your view of what the game should be like onto innocent players who are currently enjoying themselves on servers designed specifically for guns and force. How dare you.

[Spider AL]

it was threads like these combined with the effect it had on one of my favourite games that changed my mind.

 

Yes, threads such as this do affect some people, sometimes. Hopefully, some people who resent losing on public servers will be affected positively by the debate on here, and will see the flaws in whatever hangups they possess that cause them to whine. However, realistically, debate serves relatively little purpose, but as social animals we all feel the need to voice our views at some time.

 

ah, so if you enter helpusobi 1 youre not activating the cheats but youre exploiting a bug?

 

This is a good question, but I must point out that cheat codes in games such as JO and Quake are disabled on servers by default. They must be enabled manually and intentionally by the server admins for users to use them in games. Therefore, players that use them on those servers cannot be classified as having broken any rules, thus they have not "cheated" per-se.

 

The term "cheat-codes" was coined back in the arcade game days, and is hence a throwback that bears little resemblance to the hardened, mercenary and evil multiplayer hacking that people do in order to cheat these days.

 

Also! If people recode their games so that they can use the codes on servers where the cheat codes have not been enabled, then they have hacked their game, hence that would definitely be cheating!

 

Because cheating is when you truly do cheat, to further your own game in secret, or to just plain annoy other players by ruining their games. Games tend to be designed (at least slightly) to resist behaviour of this type, thus people must manually recode at least some portion of their game in order to cheat. It might be very easy, as easy as importing a new config file, or adding a .pk3 to your system, but it's still cheating. But if, like strafe-jumping or Supergripping, there is something you can do without altering your game in any way, it is surely a bug, which everyone, regardless of fore-knowledge or coding ability, is able to emulate, do by accident, or otherwise employ.

 

Not all bugs are evil, rocket jumping in Quake was a bug. Id never thought it could be used in the way it was used by the players... and yes, some people whined about rocket-jumping. Yet it's integral to the FPS multiplayer community these days.

 

Hope that's clarified my opinion, anyway Trienco. Peace, out.

[farmerBob]

wow... you guys love to argue semantics... and deeply too

[VSAF]

You ppl really have alot of time...writing pages and pages of nonsense all day...STFU and play the game already!

[grandmasterlee]

I skipped all the posts.

 

If everyone can do it, its not a cheat.