Strong stance problem

[h71y6]

I have been experiencing this for the time that i've played this game. One of the annoying bugs can be replicated as often as you want, but mainly you see it often in duel matches.

 

1. The enemy has strong stance.

2. He does the "one-hit-kill". You know the jump forward and slash down that is unblockable. God knows how many players i've played against that only know this one move.

3. So you move out of the way.

4. He finishes the move, and is crouched down. His saber is on the floor. His back is right there for you to slash.

5. so you move in for the slash on his bare back.

6. Sweessph! You're dead. He starts to recover to his standing posture from the move.

 

Something tells me that the effect of that move is still active eventhough the move has finished. I find this extremely annoying, because there is nothing you can do if he uses that move, short of saberthrow. And against a player who only uses that one move, over and over again, it can get boring if i can't punish him for foolishly using that deadly but potentially fatal move.

[Pol Favre]

lol

i hate that move with a passion.

 

i've had it get me from at least a foot away before. it IS unblockable.

i've learned to out run it. i played against a guy who just bounced around doing it repeatedly, and dodged every time. he only killed me ounce out of many duels.

 

just use light or medium stance and wait for them to finish, and the sabre to be off the ground. then when they're winding up, hit again.

[h71y6]

That wasn't quite what i meant. I kill those one move guys all the time.

 

What i'm trying to convey is that AFTER the move, you can't move in while he is still crouched on the ground and his saber on the ground. He will still kill you eventhough he isn;t moving and crouched, with the saber nowhere near anywhere that can kill. I repeat, this is AFTER he had swing his saber down. And he is crouched on the ground and his saber ON the ground. Try to attack him. You'll see what i mean.

[Pol Favre]

i know, i understood that the first time. i was just ranting

 

just stay back. what really annoys me is the range the move has. once they're on the ground they can still move around and stuff.

 

it does get extremely boring after a while. i've been very tempted to kick people out of my server for using this move over and over and over again. now that i've figured how to get away from the attack, they're just so easy to kill, but take TOO long to do so.

[h71y6]

Yeah, my advice is to be patient for a clear opening. But it just annoys me since i know that this wasn't supposedly to work this way. You do these deadly moves at a price, which is long winding time, predictability and slow recovery time. Now if they do it carelessly, we can't punish them because, although the move "looks" finished, the area of effect is still in fact, in effect(hehe). The way to counter a one move guy is to flank him and pressure him by advancing. But still, seeing that arched back all there waiting for my saber to draw blood, but can't do nuts about it is annoying.

[Tree]

Strong Stance is not balanced. Just like light stance.

 

This really shines in NF saber only duels.

 

Its funny to see those people go say.... 5 and 0 but as soon as they run into another strong stance whore, or they try medium stance they get murdered. I've seen it soo many times I can't count. Its a total newb tactic.

 

The problem with strong stance is the the SUPPOSED weakness is they leave themselves open for attack when they attack.

 

This never happens if the strong stance player has half a brain.

 

They just move the saber in a way that keeps you at bay, due to the ridiculous range of the attacks. You never have the time to get in close enough.

 

Its bad enough people whore storng stance, but using the one hit one kill is the sadest thing I've ever seen. I've seen people who only do that one move. They can spin in the ground while they do it. Aside from that, they can jump right out of the move, right after they do it.

 

They need to balance it.

 

The stance just has ridiculous range, not a bug.

[h71y6]

With me, i have killed more of the strong stanced players than anything else in duel matches. You are right that it has incredible range. Though i know that usually, except for some rare cases where the player is actually good (and i've met a few), that if i get killed by a one kill one move guy, it's luck.

[Zariyn]

I totally agree with you guys about strong stance. Granted, there are some good players that use it, but I see 90% of the newbs using it to get cheap 1 hit kills as well. I, personally, don't like using the same style that newbies use. I tend to use medium most of the time. I've found that it's a good balance of speed and power, and can usually take out most of the heavy gimps without many problems.

[Pol Favre]

the gimpy gibbons...(cough)

 

they should make it more difficult to use. with so much power, it's speed really isn't even a problem for it.

 

it gets boring to watch, as well. when in a duel server, who wants to watch a battle of a guy jumping repeatedly and slashing down on his opponent over and over again? it gets very, very boring.

[GreyJedi]

I don't like the stong stance - too slow for me. Also, I am not very good - I have only played JO online for a day or so. The duel games usually net me a score of 1/2 wins, 1/2 losses or so (50/50%).

 

Anyhow, I usually use the medium stance because my timing is too off for the slow/strong stance.

 

My question is this: In the manual, it says that one should use the strong stance in a one-v-one lightsaber situation i.e. a Duel. So, if this is the recommended stance for a duel, shouldn't the strong stance be "overpowered" anyways?

 

Or do you feel that it is TOO overpowered?

[aletoledo]

I was going to post something about this also this morning. it really seems like its a bug to me. no other move in the game needs a "wind-up", so that the second move/combo is a instant kill move more powerful than the first. also strong isn't really supposed to have a combo move available, which it is a combo if you think about it.

 

I play a lot of duel and this weekend all I did it seems was to fight against this move. people are right that the people who do it are one trick ponies. anytime that they tried anything else, they died.

 

some people might think that we're ranting, but frankly I've seen it so much I've learned to avoid it. anyone seeing me fight can see me stand up to anything else without running around wildly on the map, but this is the only move where I need to run/roll/jump away.

 

not only does the effect last while on the ground, its in effect through the jump also. so thats a 3-4 second window of instant death. the cheesiest part is if the guy misses, he just readjusts his aim while the saber is still on the floor and BLAME the opponet still dies!

 

like I said, for countering it, I played against it all weekend and I've had numerous times where I was directly behind the guy with the saber on the floor (didn't die directly behind them at least), but have never scored a hit on them. so they are invulnerable while in this state! the only way to fight these guys is to get them while they are winding up in the first combo move or to use force.

 

its like the double swing, no-skill move has finally found its way back.

[Canis_Aureus]

Will you please stop crying about the imbalances!

 

I have no problem killing a player who uses that same trick over and over. BUT the bug mentioned where the damage effect is active after the swing is done should be fixed.

 

There is no such thing as light, medium or heavy whoring... only inexperienced players who are tired of beeing killed. I use all three stances. I use the light mostly for defence, the heavy to attack those headless chickens who just spinn all over the place. I use medium stance for everything else. But switch alot between them durring a fight depending on the range. I have the stance function on a handy key so I can switch all the time. If you have problems killing a player in a saber duel don't cry and call him a whore... just practice and work out a tactic against his particular style.... otherwise just die with bloody dignity.

 

The saber duels are great, there is nothing to exploit... try to exploit one move and you'll find yourself dead very fast. Surprise your opponent and you have a better chance of winning...predictability is your worst enemy in a saber duel and THAT is the best anti whore system... so please.

[n0th1ng]

bump, red stance needs to be powered down

[freonsmurf]

that move has a huge wind up, easily avoidable, use tatics and dont let yourself get caught in small places.

 

not sure what server your playing on, but anyone with a strong stance only dominates with the heavy sideways swings

 

I use heavy stance, but I dont use this move, unless its a finisihing blow forea guy on the ground.

dont try to block it!

 

its fine, work around it dont cry patch or fix

 

try spawning a rebornfencer and work on owning a heavy stance =0

[Dark_One]

It's balanced. It's slower then the others but stronger. Blue is faster but weaker. And yellow is regular.

 

You can counter the red stance by throwing your saber when the enemy attacks.

 

Try it. I always win against strong stance people with yellow stance.

[MrCrusher]

Yeah I've noticed this bug as well. Wait almost a full second after the moves animation is complete (1000 pings) then move in for the counter lung and Wack! I'm dead.

 

In an no-force match, stay well away from the move and then roll quickly in for a hit. BTW, Raven did an exellent job with duck and rolls it gives a nice defensive/evasive advantage.

 

Personally I think the strong style or any style attack should be "jam-able". If an opponent starts a long strong swing and you hit him with a good quick hit it should interupt the swing as a parry, block, knock-back or hit. It seems that you can get a hit off but then your down to 20 health as the strong swipe follows thru.

 

Raven needs to add one more stance to the game "The defensive stance" A stance that will block all attacks from front and light attacks from the back. In this stance you cannot attack, maybe only Knock-back (a push in the form of a head butt, sabre butt or shoulder). Maybe the special move could be an evasive cartwheel or arial.

 

Anyway, using strong stance primarily is the easy way for a lucky kill.

 

P.S. Raven also needs to add a different key for each stance instead of on key for all.

[Trienco]

talking about countering with yellow. usually you would just strafe to the side and attack. the problem (hope it's just my connection): he's still 2m away and i die. i already stepped aside and he clearly misses and i die. so the only thing i can do is run _far_ away because i never know where he 'really' is on the server. well, have to live with it when i'm not playing on a lan *g*

 

btw. is it just me or should the backstab be a bit more powerful? right now it seems to be a complete waste of time to turn your back to an enemy and use this special. hitting someone with both blue special attacks still wont kill him while a red 'standard' attack does a lot more damage.

[Tree]

I would like to see these servers where everyone is owning strong stance player so post the IP's please. I will come and get some tips.

 

Strong stance is not as bad on FF server, just use saber throw.

 

In FFA and NF duel the strong stance is too good.

 

If a strong stance players is a total and complete newb then yes he is easy to kill.

 

Most of the strong stance players I play keep you at bay with there range. They swing, backup swing again. You never get a chance to move in. If you guys are fast enough to move in on a strong stance player who has just swung then we are playing 2 different games. Even with roll. You are forced to stay back due to the extreme range. They simply recover way to fast. They move the same speed as you do.

 

I say this as someone who used to use strong stance, till I realized how it took no skill to rack up the kills. I've heard a lot of good medium stance players say the same, they quit using it because they realized how ghey it was.

 

It is beyond easy to swing and back up keeping them at bay.

 

I wont even comment on the total whores who only do the one hit one kill :/

 

Every single strong stnace person I have seen try medium gets absolutely killed. Or if another strong stance person comes along they also get murdered.

 

It takes far more skill to own with medium stance then it does strong stance.

 

I want to see where strong stance people get consistantly owned by medium stance. I have been playing since day one and I have yet to see it.

 

So please post the IP's.

[NeonSamurai]

Personaly i dont have much of a problem with that move other then the fact that the move has full damage effects untill the guy gets up which i think is rather silly.. been a few times i died because i accidentaly steped on the saber while it was on the ground. Realisticly (well as realistic as you can get with a weapon that doesnt exist) i think the damage effects from that move should stop the moment the saber is on the ground as all momentum and power from that move is lost at that point.

 

But hitting them when they are crouched i havent had any problems with as long as i dont step on the saber.

 

Oh and as far as light being somewhat less balanced i tend to agree its realy only slightly faster then medium and the damage output is quite worse. That and i havent found the parry abilities to be any better or worse then the others.

[enDless_Deliriu]

Maybe this was just a fluke occurence, but I've managed to "block" the heavy special attack with the lightstance lunge before. I'm not sure how, but I knew I'd hit the guy before, and wanted to see if my lunge could kill him before he hit me. I went at the last second, and my saber went up just as his started coming down and we ended up in a saber lock. Not the best counter, but still, it's better than being killed or having to run away so they can try it again.

 

In duels, I usually use all three stances. I'll use Heavy for that first hit, or to keep the range balanced if the other person is just using heavy attacks. But I'll also switch to medium and light and try to get past their optimum range and get some hits in.

 

I've yet to see anyone win 100% of the time, or win "easily" against someone just using heavy stance, maybe I'm just playing on the wrong server. Still, I want to research to see if the light stance lunge can counter that heavy jump attack by putting you into a saber lock.

 

It is annoying that the move is still deadly even with the saber buried in the ground. (btw, I'd also like to see these server IPs where it's No Force and people are regularly kicking the crap out of people who just use Heavy Stance and one hit kill. I want to find good places to play, and that looks like it'd be good)

[Pol Favre]

tips can be had right here. read through, most people tell what they do to avoid heavy-whores.

 

just use light or medium stance and wait for their swing to completely finish, then engage quickly and pull back again.

 

 

im not whining about it's power, im whining about how boring it is to whoop their asses.

[Sithcloak]

I have also noticed the unbalance and bugs that are in heavy stance. I hope that they are fixed soon with a patch. I'm tired of getting hit by heavy stance swings when the saber seems to be a foot away!

 

Sithcloak

[GalacticBulge]

Guys, h71y6 wasn't talking about a Strong Stance imbalance, he was talking about taking a one-hit-kill from an overhead swipe AFTER the swipe was completed, which = a bug (or lag). Granted you should still take damage from the saber, but there's no way in hell it should be a one hit kill.

[kerosene31]

I've seen the same problem. I agree that it might be a lag issue. When my ping is good, I can avoid the strong stance fairly well. However once things get laggy, I get taken out all the time. The worst kind of opponent is someone who uses the strong stance and has a ping of 350

 

I've been taken out even when I've been as much as 6-8 feet away from my attacker.

[h71y6]

lag? hmmm... it very well could be. I never really considered that but it makes sense.

 

Oh and about stepping on the saber. I don't think it's that reliable. I never go straight in head on to a guy who has just finished the move. Instead, i would go in from his side, so his saber which is on the ground is perpendicular to you, and yet it is usually fatal. I have resided to the fact that if you move in to a guy with his saber on the ground after executing that move, you have 50-50 chance you'll hurt him or he'll kill you. Now to take a chance on that, i would be silly.