Why JK2 is not a good game...

[cf492]

There are two major problems which ruin JK2, and several maller more minor problems and it is for these reasons which I cannot possibly imagine why anyone thinks this game is great.

 

The biggest issue is that of level design. All the levels are linear. Straight through, there is only one route and you have to follow it no matter how obfuscated it is. JK2 seems to borrow quite heavily from games such as Tomb Raider. There is one and only way to complete a level and you either figure it out, die or get very bored. How anyone thinks this is fun is beyond me.

 

Once you're decently equipped (after about a third of the way through the game) every level becomes the same: blitz through a section... get stuck for half an hour... puzzle over what switch/door/key you have to press... get through, blitz a bit more... get stuck for half an hour... Rinse, repeat. Dull. Anyone who thinks this is fun needs a sanity check. The game gives absolutely no help whatsoever about how to get through certain sections and is sometimes downright misleading.

 

I expected more of this game. Even the first JK was more fluid in keeping the game play going. I don't want a game I can complete in three hours but I do want something where I'm not constantly feeling as though I'm battling the psyche of the level designers who demand that you play the SP game in a certain way - their way - or not at all. The use of random traps which kill you the first time you encounter them and then never again shows a level of immaturity in the design of the SP game.

 

JK2 seems to rely quite heavily on its Star Wars license and Quake3 engine to keep it afloat. I'd question how many people would buy this game if you took away those two things from it. It would just then be an average FPS that most people would ignore.

 

The second major thing which breaks this game IMHO is the implementation of lightsaber fights and force powers. This was something which was never quite gotten right with the first JK and sadly I can't see how anyone thinks it's been improved here. Lightsaber fights still have a fair element of randomness and luck in them no matter which way you look at it. Players move too fast and saber moves are too cumbersome and slow.

 

This all adds up to people preferring to go for Speed and Strong styles simply 'cos it's easiest to rack up kills this way. Has anyone even seen (let alone be able to fight) an elegant saber fight with parrying, dodging, flipping etc.? I doubt it. Successful strategies revolve around fast in-out attacks (maybe with Speed/Healing) which is fundamentally the same as JK1 and comes down to who has the lowest ping in MP.

 

Force powers as well have simply been pretty much copied verbatim from the original JK. At best these always looked like they were fudged on and sadly that feeling hasn't gone away. It's way too easy to dispatch of someone by gripping them and moving them over an edge in a split second. If it were really that easy, why didn't Vader grip the Emperor and throw him down pit in Return of the Jedi rather than picking him up physically? Force powers are just messed up and don't fit. They work OK for the SP game but in multiplayer it's a mess and important gun-stopping powers like Pull don't even work consistently or reliably enough.

 

JK2 could have had a lot of potential especially in the SP game, for creating a truly great game following in the footsteps of Deus Ex or Half-Life and cutting a new path forward for games. It's failed dismally and instead opted for a five-year-old style of gameplay that is both unsatisfying and a discredit to gamers and the Star Wars universe.

 

Removing any kind of player choice in the way the game progresses is the biggest let down overall and it amazes me how games like this are still produced when several games have captured revolutionary genre-evolving tricks and techniques (non-linear levels, multiple routes and powers etc.). People who argue that to do such things require more time etc. are I think, just apologists for poor game design. Other games have proven that it CAN be done, so why hasn't it been?

 

This game, while fun for its Star Wars content, in no way jusifies the kind of rave reviews it's been getting.

[Threetall]

It should be noted that the most popular games are the most mindless. Escapism tends to be that way.

I see your point(s) though.

[hughJ]

I'd definitely have to agree about the poor level design in this game... there were times (after being stuck for an hour) where I had to actually noclip... find the area of the level where I wasn't able to get to, and then play itself backwards just to figure out which door or switch it was that I somehow managed to miss...

 

and I'd also have to agree that it's the starwars license that keeps this game afloat... rather than it's own merits.. the sound and graphics of this game are probably its stronger elements, and it just so happens the reason why they are brought to the forefront of the game so much is only due to the starwars license..

 

the story is pretty weak overall (imo - pretty predictable, no real connection with the characters, flat, etc), and if you remove the poor level design as a factor (ie - use a guided walk-through), the game's length tends to be cut in half...

[nib]

I have to say I disagree with you on your SP comments. Can't really comment on MP since I've only played with 1 or 2 people so far. Although, your MP comments seem valid. The MP levels are just simply horrid. A real let-down after the the size/scope and beauty of the SP levels.

 

As to the SP. I played through the entire game over the weekend and I found the levels to be quite good. Yes, they're linear, but it works for SP, IMO. I didn't even think the puzzles were that hard. There were some that I used the walkthrough for, but in all honesty, after reading the walkthrough I was like "duh". It was usually that I had walked right past the door/switch/etc. I needed to hit.

 

The SP levels were quite frankly gorgous. They really had me amazed. I've been developing levels for Wolfenstein and would walk through that game thinking "I could make a level this good". While I was going through JKII, I was constantly thinking "Wow, I don't think I could come up with something this good".

 

To each his own I guess. Afte coming from RTCW, I found this game to be a much better use of the q3 engine.

[cf492]

There are good "mindless" games e.g. Serious Sam that don't take themselves too seriously (!) and do well because of that. I don't think JK2 is trying to pass itself off as being a "mindless" game though. In fact, it just seems quite confused at times about exactly what it should be.

 

I have not gotten to the point of playing levels backwards but the first time I played the swamp level I managed to jump up on all the rocks (I thought the exit was over the top of the rocks) and the level design is so weak than you can get up there quite easily... only to find that the Quake3 engine goes mental, the clipping gets messed up and you get stuck and can't get back. The level is so "hard" that I actually broke the game before figuring out where the exit actually was. Crazy.

 

I really think this is a game propped up by it's Star Wars license and (reasonably) pretty visuals. There isn't much of a real game there and certainly nothing that hasn't been done to death before.

 

I don't mind the story. After all, if I want a good plot I'll read a novel or watch a movie. The plot is fairly decent for what it is, and is worked better than in some other games. It serves the purpose IMHO.

[cf492]

Originally posted by nib

As to the SP. I played through the entire game over the weekend and I found the levels to be quite good. Yes, they're linear, but it works for SP, IMO. I didn't even think the puzzles were that hard. There were some that I used the walkthrough for, but in all honesty, after reading the walkthrough I was like "duh". It was usually that I had walked right past the door/switch/etc. I needed to hit.

 

Well perhaps you think a game of "hunt the switch/door/key" is fun? Personally, I don't really. Why do you like linear games? If you've played something like Deus Ex then that is still linear in terms of there's a start point and an end point to a level but what you do and how you get there is up to you, not pre-determined.

 

I think you sound a little contradictory here too in that you did the game a weekend but also used a walkthrough? If it was that easy then why did you need the walkthrough? I don't think the puzzles are hard, merely annoying and pointless more than anything. I want a fun experience. A game for which there isn't a walkthrough because playing the game in itself is the experience.

 

Originally posted by nib

The SP levels were quite frankly gorgous. They really had me amazed. I've been developing levels for Wolfenstein and would walk through that game thinking "I could make a level this good". While I was going through JKII, I was constantly thinking "Wow, I don't think I could come up with something this good".

 

The graphics are nice, yes. But then again, the nVidia graphics demos are nice too but they're not much fun after you've seen them more than once.

 

Wolfenstein has its ups-and-downs. Compare the "sneak into the rocket base" level in Wolf verses the "sneak past the Stormtroopers" level in JK2. Are you seriously going to tell me that JK2 is superior here? It's not even in same league. Graphically or atmospherically.

 

Some of the better levels in JK2 (e.g. the mine, early on) are spoiled because the game does help you in telling you what to do. A few short cut scenes of Kyle standing at a console looking at plans of the station saying "I can disable this here..." etc. would go a long way to improving the situation IMHO. With Wolf you're very rarely (if ever) pushed into a situation where you've killed everyone and have nowhere to go, yet the JK2 this happens far too often.

 

Visually Nar Shaddar is a treat but on closer inspection it just feels like a "made-for-game" map rather than a "real" place. You can jump onto walkways where the doors on either end won't open and you've got a hefty jump down to the ground to get out of it. As for getting the bridge across... I only figured that out as a last resort thinking, "this'll either work or I'll die." Great.

 

Wolfy may have a couple of sucky levels (e.g. tombs) but it also has some great levels too (SWF, rocket base, airbase, dam) etc. Which although they're all pretty much blast-fests are damn good fun and atmospheric. WYSIWYG. The same can't be said for JK2, sadly.

[nib]

Just to clear up my "contradiction", I used a walkthrough because I got lazy. In all honesty, I shouldn't have. But, the times I did it was usually 2am and I was trying to get through some part and didn't want to wait until morning. I didn't view it as a game flaw, I viewed it as my laziness.

 

While I will give you (and some others have said this) that the Star Wars backdrop does help this game a bit, I still found the levels to be nice. Just to show our different taste, the mines were one of my least favorite levels.

[hughJ]

"I didn't even think the puzzles were that hard..."

"...but in all honesty, after reading the walkthrough..."

 

lol

 

anyways... we're not saying the puzzles are "hard", just poorly planned to the point where the game feels like it has no direction... most of the time spent playing is after you've already mopped up all the available enemies, and are simply wandering about a trooper body-strewn empty base looking for a switch that you missed..

 

had there been cutscenes which offered insight as to where/what exactly you were wanting to do.. with perhaps a rough map of the base read from a computer terminal, rather than a pretty over-generalized task list, i think each map would have felt a lot more involving..

[cf492]

Well I didn't use a walkthrough and slogged my way through instead and I can tell you that many things are very obvious if someone points them out to you that are no so otherwise.

 

I don't see how you can think the puzzles aren't annoying if you've never actually played through them yourself. Sounds to me like you got someone else's experience of the game and not your own as you relied on them taking all the frustration for you because you wanted to see the end of the game. Oh well.

 

The Star Wars license is a BIG part of what's propping this game up, not quite as small a bit as you'd like to believe, I fear. Take away lightsabers, Stormtroopers, The Force etc. and the game loses much of its sparkle.

 

Have you played Half-Life or Deus Ex at all?

[hughJ]

Deus Ex will be in a league of its own for a long long time... so far nothing comes close to it, not even Half-Life..

 

without the starwars license, I don't think that this game would even be getting average reviews from all the critics whom are praising it.. it's best qualities are deeply rooted in game atmosphere, graphics and sound that only shine due to the starwars universe..

 

imo: other than the licensing, this game's best quality could be the map size.. during the first couple minutes of playing a new level, you feel dwarfed by the world you're in.... after finishing a level, the world you just experienced often feels about 10 times smaller than what you first thought due to how linear and simplistic it is though..

[cf492]

Originally posted by hughJ

... most of the time spent playing is after you've already mopped up all the available enemies, and are simply wandering about a trooper body-strewn empty base looking for a switch that you missed..

 

had there been cutscenes which offered insight as to where/what exactly you were wanting to do.. with perhaps a rough map of the base read from a computer terminal, rather than a pretty over-generalized task list, i think each map would have felt a lot more involving..

 

Exactly.

 

Again, I'll go back to Deus Ex and say that it is much finer example. You get schematics to many of the levels along with the objectives and this just intensifies the absorbtion into the game world and gives you more choice.

 

It would have been quite easy to integrate this into the game E.g. Kyle gets given plans on mission briefings to begin with, and then maybe at computer consoles or you could use droids to bypass security systems (a la Deus Ex), lock and unlock doors, disable turrets etc. or have Lando/Jan/Luke just give a little more help in places ("Where does that go..." or "The controls for <that> are <here>"). This would add so much to the game and its atmosphere and make you feel as though you're part of the game world. Damn, who wanted to ride the pods on Bespin etc.? There are so many missed opportunities.

 

This is the main reason why JK2 is not a good game IMHO. There's toom much emphasis on boring, dull, linear levels which have been done to death in a dozen other games beforehand.

[cf492]

Originally posted by hughJ

... most of the time spent playing is after you've already mopped up all the available enemies, and are simply wandering about a trooper body-strewn empty base looking for a switch that you missed..

 

had there been cutscenes which offered insight as to where/what exactly you were wanting to do.. with perhaps a rough map of the base read from a computer terminal, rather than a pretty over-generalized task list, i think each map would have felt a lot more involving..

 

Exactly.

 

Again, I'll go back to Deus Ex and say that it is much finer example. You get schematics to many of the levels along with the objectives and this just intensifies the absorbtion into the game world and gives you more choice.

 

It would have been quite easy to integrate this into the game E.g. Kyle gets given plans on mission briefings to begin with, and then maybe at computer consoles or you could use droids to bypass security systems (a la Deus Ex), lock and unlock doors, disable turrets etc. or have Lando/Jan/Luke just give a little more help in places ("Where does that go..." or "The controls for <that> are <here>"). This would add so much to the game and its atmosphere and make you feel as though you're part of the game world. Damn, who wanted to ride the pods on Bespin etc.? There are so many missed opportunities.

 

This is the main reason why JK2 is not a good game IMHO. There's too much emphasis on boring, dull, linear levels which have been done to death in a dozen other games beforehand.

[Amorpheus]

Originally posted by hughJ

Deus Ex will be in a league of its own for a long long time... so far nothing comes close to it, not even Half-Life..

System Shock 2.

 

Half-what?

[nib]

Originally posted by cf492

Well I didn't use a walkthrough and slogged my way through instead and I can tell you that many things are very obvious if someone points them out to you that are no so otherwise.

 

I don't see how you can think the puzzles aren't annoying if you've never actually played through them yourself. Sounds to me like you got someone else's experience of the game and not your own as you relied on them taking all the frustration for you because you wanted to see the end of the game. Oh well.

 

The Star Wars license is a BIG part of what's propping this game up, not quite as small a bit as you'd like to believe, I fear. Take away lightsabers, Stormtroopers, The Force etc. and the game loses much of its sparkle.

 

Have you played Half-Life or Deus Ex at all?

 

First of all, I have played the game. From start to finish. And you're implication that I haven't is a bit annoying.

 

Secondly, I've played Half-Life, and I loved half-life. When it came out, I found it to be the best FPS SP at that point in time - revolutionary IMO. Haven't played Deus Ex though, so I'm not comparing this game to that one, which may be our point of seeing things differently. Your expectations are different than mine.

 

Also, since people seem to be (intentionally?) misreading my comments about using the walkthrough, I'll clarify again. I used the walkthrough because I was lazy, not because the puzzles were too hard. For example, here are the points I used the walkthought (SPOILERS AHEAD):

 

Chasing down Dessan: I missed that second button on the wall you have to push. I was being hasty, there's no reason I shouldn't have seen it since that's a very small area and its not that hard to see

 

Shield Generators: I somehow (god only knows how), missed that door you have to go in with the locked room that opens that hatches down into the tunnels. Again, I walked right by a normal door a million times. Again, a stupid mistake on my part, not an overly difficult puzzle.

 

Fighing Farkar: I read a walkthrough to see if there were any tactics to use that I wasn't using becuase he was hard as hell (IMO), harder than Dassan. Turned out that I was doing everything right, I just needed to be a bit better.

 

Swamp: This is the ONE puzzle I truly believe may have been a bit too difficult. It was the one time I was like "how in the hell was I supposed to find this?"

[waxdart]

Originally posted by cf492

The second major thing which breaks this game IMHO is the implementation of lightsaber fights and force powers. This was something which was never quite gotten right with the first JK and sadly I can't see how anyone thinks it's been improved here. Lightsaber fights still have a fair element of randomness and luck in them no matter which way you look at it. Players move too fast and saber moves are too cumbersome and slow.

 

This all adds up to people preferring to go for Speed and Strong styles simply 'cos it's easiest to rack up kills this way. Has anyone even seen (let alone be able to fight) an elegant saber fight with parrying, dodging, flipping etc.? I doubt it. Successful strategies revolve around fast in-out attacks (maybe with Speed/Healing) which is fundamentally the same as JK1 and comes down to who has the lowest ping in MP.

 

Yes and no. I've said this many times before -- fights are as random as you choose to make them. The MP community is still teething at the moment, and saber 'strategists' are only just beginning to show themselves.

 

I can say that I've been on my share of duel servers, and have done pretty well staying largely stationary, moving only when appropriate, and exploiting openings in an opponent's defenses. My experience with the community at large, however, has been that most people adopt the run-and-gun style.

 

The mechanics in multiplayer _are_ less refined than in single-player, though... and one can see why. The sort of parries and blocks that happen in single player require a lot of hit detection that's difficult in a real-world (read: unpredictable 'Net latency) situation. I've seen lots of small-room situations with 4-6 jedi swinging randomly, and I wouldn't want to be a developer charged with making that work.

 

Force powers as well have simply been pretty much copied verbatim from the original JK. At best these always looked like they were fudged on and sadly that feeling hasn't gone away. It's way too easy to dispatch of someone by gripping them and moving them over an edge in a split second. If it were really that easy, why didn't Vader grip the Emperor and throw him down pit in Return of the Jedi rather than picking him up physically? Force powers are just messed up and don't fit. They work OK for the SP game but in multiplayer it's a mess and important gun-stopping powers like Pull don't even work consistently or reliably enough.

 

It's too easy to grip/throw your opponent... IF he doesn't know how to use absorb. Again, I think it's a matter of the community learning the game. It's story-appropriate, I think -- the dark side is quicker, easier, more seductive. In the beginning, there are a LOT of grip/drain/lightning kids out there, but once people start figuring out the counters (mostly absorb, sometimes protect), it's going to get much more interesting.

 

I disagree with the force powers 'not fitting'. Force push/pull are great (it's tons of fun pushing the alt-fire assaults back at your attacker -- always surprises the flak cannon users), as are speed and jump. Lightning looks really cool.

 

Essentially, Raven gave us an instrument. How the community decides to play that instrument...

[hughJ]

"Shield Generators: I somehow (god only knows how), missed that door you have to go in with the locked room that opens that hatches down into the tunnels. Again, I walked right by a normal door a million times. Again, a stupid mistake on my part, not an overly difficult puzzle"

 

from my prior post:

 

"anyways... we're not saying the puzzles are "hard", just poorly planned to the point where the game feels like it has no direction at times... most of the time spent playing is after you've already mopped up all the available enemies, and are simply wandering about a trooper body-strewn empty base looking for a switch that you missed.."

 

it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the puzzles.. it has to do with poor game direction in that an easily missed switch, etc leads to being directionless in an empty base forever... by only giving a vague level goal, you aren't given a good enough grasp of the level planning, where you're supposed to go, what switch you should hit, etc... the fact that you used a walk-through at all (doesn't matter why) kinda opts you out from what we're talking about..

[grellin]

I think you make some pretty good points, but your conclusion is flawed. When I first started playing the game, it seemed very old and way too familiar. The mechanics were just like all the hundreds of other Quake based games. I was hoping for a more dynamic experience, being able to climb, grab, etc. and not be forced to jump on tiny boxes like some old platformer game to get somewhere high. This feeling went away somewhat but it is true that it has a lot of unoriginal elements.

 

Level design isn't the greatest, but it gets the job done... I would have liked to see some more inspiring levels to be sure.

 

Also, the license does indeed provide a big push for the appeal of the game, although it does take an amount of skill to pull the license off authentically, (look at all the horrible movies taken from great games and vice-versa) and I think Raven managed to pull that off extremely well, and should get credit for that. You can't really put too much weight on that point, saying things like "take out the lightsaber and what do you have", because, that IS this game - it's all about Star Wars, the lightsaber, being a Jedi, etc., and it does a great job making you feel like a powerful Jedi in the Star Wars universe, which was their main goal, I think.

 

Also, I think you focus too many of your points on the Multiplayer game. The multiplayer seems somewhat rushed and sloppy to me, and generally uninspiring. The more I play this game, the more it seems to have been designed primarily as a SP game, and the SP force powers and duel mechanics work MUCH better than the previous Jedi Knight, or multiplayer for that matter. There are all kinds of cool stuff in there that makes you want to reload fights over and over, and it is just flat out fun, and the force powers compliment the fights very well.

 

Despite the flaws, the game amounted to the most fun I've had with a PC game (which eliminates Halo from the scene) since Deus Ex, and that's what it all comes down to really. If you're more of a MP type person, then it probably isn't worth getting this game just for that, but the fact that the single player offers enough to be able to go through the whole game with one weapon (saber) and still remain very entertaining (for the majority) says a lot about the overall design of this game, me thinks. Try going through Deus Ex (one of my favorite games of all time, don't get me wrong) with the laser sword and see how exciting that is.

[Scarlet Widow]

"Deus Ex will be in a league of its own for a long long time"

 

Try Ultima Underworld, Thief, or Arx Fatalis ..maybe even System Shock 2 or the original System Shock

 

i agree about the mission design, i really can't understand how people enjoy things like that. The actual design of the maps were basicly non-linear but the order you *had* to do things in was. Its great to see that people are being opposed to things like that after all these years because it really needs to come to an end, its always sickend me.

However, besides the poor gameplay, i love the combat and the AI and everything else about Jedi Knight II though there are specifics (such as how the player can carry an infinite amount of items) that bother me but as a whole i love it.

[cf492]

Originally posted by nib

Haven't played Deus Ex though, so I'm not comparing this game to that one, which may be our point of seeing things differently.

 

You should get it. It's out on budget now and is a total snap for the great game that it is, especially if you've never played it before. I guarentee you'll have a lot of fun with it.

 

Play Deus Ex, and then you'll realise how weak JK2 (and nearly all other similar games) seem in comparison... and then ask yourself why no-one else seems bothered with making games like Deus Ex, System Shock 2... heck even Ultima Underworld 2. All of which are in another league compared with JK2 and most other games.

[cf492]

it has nothing to do with the difficulty of the puzzles.. it has to do with poor game direction in that an easily missed switch, etc leads to being directionless in an empty base forever... by only giving a vague level goal, you aren't given a good enough grasp of the level planning, where you're supposed to go, what switch you should hit, etc...

 

Precisely.

[Shalashaska]

Some points about how the graphics could of been better.

 

Have you ever walked up to a wall and looked at it?

If you have you will have seen just how bad the graphics can look.

 

Heres another thing about the graphics that could of been improved.

 

If you look at someone from the distance half of there face dissapears and you can see there eyes and jaw.

[~(\/)iasma->]

Has anyone even seen (let alone be able to fight) an elegant saber fight with parrying, dodging, flipping etc.? I doubt it.

 

I don't doubt it. I have seen plenty of "elegant sabre battles". Go to a DUEL server sometime. I have been in them, and I have watched them. I have seen people running toward each other and one of them ran on the wall, flipped off of it and came down on the head of the other. The other must have got his swing timed perfect because that whole manuever ended up into a Sabre Lock. It was really sweet.

 

One time a duel I was in the person came straight at me, I didn't have my sabre on. He initiated his forward attack and all I did was a fwd+strL to dodge and a fwd+strR+attack (a quick swipe low and to the right), which killed him to both of our surprises. What was elegant to me about that was that I saw him coming at me with his high attack which I dodged and was able to perform an appropriate counter attack. So that fight didn't have wall jumping or whatnot but it sure looked cool all the same.

 

I have seen many many sabre duels and sure there are people who just don't "get it". So they flail around and that is not elegant by any means. There are those who are now understanding how the moves work and using them to great effect.

 

I am becoming an effective duelist. I still have tons to learn. My initial reaction to dueling was, "What's the point in all this flailing I seem to be doing?", well guess what? I WAS flailing. Now that I understand more about what the strikes are and how they can be combined together, dueling is now on a completely different level.

 

I can't comment too much on the SP game as I am only on Mission 2.

 

Sorry you aren't having as much fun with it as I am.

[toolboi]

Has anyone even seen (let alone be able to fight) an elegant saber fight with parrying, dodging, flipping etc.? I doubt it. Successful strategies revolve around fast in-out attacks

 

Actually little sword fighting is elegant. Most fencing is easily taken out by a grunt with a big sword, infact a lot of combatants in battles were actually killed with knives at close range.

I however find yellow to be FAR superior to blue. Its WAY faster (you can combo about three blows in the speed of a single blue twirl) and does way more dammage.

 

As for the level design, alas your right, it is VERY linear. I would have liked to see multiple ways through levels, but that does not make the game bad. The level design is still good (if a little too hard at times), its just very linear.

[Triger Hapie]

While I like the Force powers and sabre in JK2, there is no way you can even compare it to Jedi Knight: Dark Forces 2. The original is just a phenomenal game. Beyong fantastic. And then there is this one. No civilians in a city like Nar Shadda? What's up with that? The levels seem boring too. A big room, a small room with an elevator leading down to a really big room. Then there is a door to a hall way. At the end of the hall is a large room... I do wish I could get the load time fixed somehow. Maybe then I could enjoy it more. I don't see how this game is getting the 9's out of 10 and what not in every review. It's not very good.

[Da_Bee]

Never having played dark forces 2 (i don't know if i ever will seeing as its so old and i dont know anywhere to find it ?anybody?) i can't compare this game to its predeccesor/s, but as for me when i first played this game i thought it was amazing.

 

of course thats because i had expectations of the game from the start -its a star wars game which means there is a universe of possibilities- however had star wars been a b rated movie like this is a b rated game there wouldnt have been such a great following.

 

The first mission i enjoyed because it was a return to the very first dark forces (which i have played), it was simply a straightforward star wars fps level. I assumed the later levels would be different and would be more universal and less linear. also i had heard so much about the rpg elements of force development in the second game and so i was really looking forward to some choices in this game. choices thats all i wanted. you know maybe walk around a city and explore and interact with the citizens yadda yadda yadda. you know to give a more universal appearance. i mean you could skip the exploration if it wasnt your style but still you had some choices.

 

This game as it turns out is like a damn dictatorship. i cant do anything i want to do. i have to go over here and flip the switch so i can get the part where i have go over there to flip the switch. now its not the switch flipping that bothers me, its the fact that i have to flip the switch. theres no way around it. if i dont spot the switch well thats no problem because im stuck until i do hit the switch. i could backtrack to other areas by why would i want to do that? they already made me search every stinking square inch of that area to get to the area im stuck in now. they dont let you miss anything in this game and thats the problem: What you see is what you get. there are no secrets or bonuses that are in the least bit enjoyable. the secret areas that they scatter around the levels are usually small rooms under stairs in the shadows that contain things i dont need. i never even used my bacta containers or seeker droids so why are you cramming my pockets full of them. why dont you give us something fun or interesting? something maybe that refers to other aspects of the starwars universe? what happened to the idea that when i beat the game i get a bonus level or some reward because that steaming pile of an ending just didnt cut it. oh jeez jan, lando owes you ten bucks? eh? well heres twenty for you to say something thats acctually important to the storyline instead of just getting kidnapped.

 

when i got to the nar shadda city or whatever level i thought the game was taking a turn for the better. i thought i could explore. but i can't jump, i can't take out a weapon even though all im going to do is fight anyways, im forced to go to a bar that seems cool but the only thing that anyone does there is stare at a blank wall or watch a ridiculously boring fight between two creatures that you had just encountered in the mines (why not have two thugs fight or maybe droids or the like- use your imagination not whats convenient) The only thing i can do is go to the bartender and start fighting again. i'm not allowed upstairs. why? i dont know and i never figure out why. theres nothing there but a switch for the bar downstairs which in turn has another switch i have to hit. gad why am i doing this?

 

the only time when i started enjoying the game again was when i encountered and fought the jedis in a very cinematic style. the fights are fun and movielike and i kept quickloading so i could do it again but even this novelty wore off as soon as i got the level the ladder and could fight various jedi without having to reload every time. now all i do is play the ladder. the levels dont offer anything new and multiplayer is simplyboring. bots are for some reason stupider than the ai of the dark jedis in the sp game and playing against humans is just no fun because you cant disable sabers so everyone runs around taking swings with the strong style. if you get hit youre flattened.

 

I think lucasarts went wrong first with their own inability to make choices. im sure they set out to do something else but just gave up probably because they couldnt work with the damn story. you can even see their indecision in the way they do cinematics. part of the game like the intro are done like they are being filmed (very poorly though) yet other intros of levels and midway cinematics are done through player perspective like they did in medal of honor. inconsistant stuff like this may not be important but it sure is damn annoying.

 

so basically i started off loving the game i thought it was great. i read forums of people who hated the game and complained about it and i thought they were just ignorant but i read and shortly realized that this game isnt all its cracked up to be. in fact i think i just joined this forum thing today and started reading today so i pretty much started hating this game over night. it still has a lot of great stuff though so im just a walking contradiction.

 

another question: why the hell did this game cost so much?? i'm in canada so i had to drop $90 on this vid game. its only 700mb its so small i just dont get it. i guess im buying the name lucas arts or star wars which is weird because most of their games just sucked it up. (except rogue squadron)

 

cheers boys and girls

 

P.S. (is somebody going to come up with a disintergration mod so that you can use the force or a different gun to disintergrate someone without having to be in sniping mode and charging up? sounds like a plan so get on it?) fun fun fun booya kasha