Heavy crap ruins saber duels

[stellerwinds]

I'm getting a bit tired of the exploits from the heavy stance.

 

I can't stand ctf or team saber servers because its just all spaz button mashing play. Force powers just makes it all more generic no-think death match play, its as bad as guns.

 

No force saber dueling is the only way to go. But even here we have to contend with this annoying red stance which would be fine IF it worked logically.

 

The overhead swing for intance hits you before the saber even begins its downward strike.

The death from above move, contrary to what the book says, doesn't need precise aim to hit at all. And of course it has a totally absurd lingering effect while the saber is in the GROUND. Just approaching too soon from whatever angle gets you hurt bad.

 

Of course we end up with red users who know nothing else besides these expliots. All the can do is line up their jumps or charge in with their power swings which can not be blocked and hit without hitting. Otherwise they run around jumping away like spazes.

 

I'm really hopping something will be done about the obvious problems with some of the red moves. Its alright to have a powerful attack but these moves were obviously designed to give you an edge in the single player game and they are ruining dueling.

 

A patch would be nice but even better would be a mod. Someone needs to give us a bit more control and realism for saber use. A block key for instance and a speed adjustment. You cant have decent saber fights when people are running around full tilt like a spaz.

[Silent Wolf]

 

I find your lack of faith disturbing...

 

and your lack of skill is laughable

 

 

complaing about getting owned = lame

 

 

I suggest you find a way to fight back:p

[obijonkenobi]

If we are lucky Raven might correct this in a patch. If they release a patch that is. I am not sure (correct me if I am wrong) but I think JK1 didn't have a patch... I can't remember many SW games having patches besides the odd one or two. X-Wing Alliance is the only game coming to mind...

[moore+]

Also what you are seeing is likely lag, the server prolly sees the saber hitting you just fine. It's not keeping track of the saber as well as SP does, too much info.

[obijonkenobi]

Although personally I do not find "Strong" sabre users to be a problem as they are easy to kill.

[Fyunch Click]

There ARE counters to the heavy stance.

It can be seen coming from a mile away. You can sidestep and slash at their back, you can roll to the side, and contrary to your post you CAN block the shots.

Hold down your shift key and you will walk, that will slow you down, giving you more time to line up your shots. Release it and you can go back to running.

As to your comments about force powers....ummmm this is a game about Jedi and Lightsabers. Jedi use these abilities in combat (see Empire when Vader and Luke are battling in Bespin, Vader force throws boxes, chunks of machinery etc @ Whineboy..I mean Luke)

Your preference may be no force, if so then find servers without it to play on, however using it judiciously and practicing your movement in addition to your attack skills will also serve you well.

 

Have fun!

[Aiee]

Mind you, the heavy lunge *IS* kinda silly. I've tried it on a few servers I've hosted (so it isn't client-server lag causing it. My opponent had ~30msec), and while the animation shows him jumping forward and swinging directly ahead, I find that any player within a 40-50 degree cone that extends roughly 2 feet beyond the tip of the saber dies instantly from the attack.

 

Amazingly, it doesn't stop there. On the occasions that I missed my opponent, he'd rush towards me and deliver an overhead blow while I was recovering, and even though my saber was IN the ground, I managed to block somehow.

 

Instant death is fine. animation and recovery time is fine. But PLEASE make it require me to just aim a *little* rather than giving me a cone that extends BEYOND the reach of my blade in which people die instantly.

 

Oh, and when I'm crouched forward, blade poking into the ground, don't make my lightsaber block an overhead swing. That's just silly

[Jiro Kage]

You say he's whining but he is right in one respect - the heavy effect from the quickstrike does linger, and its not lag. I would imagine it is simply the damage eddect is not switched off until after the person moves back to the original stance, which is stupid. The quick fix is to not allow the person to spin once the move lands, as you can continually turn and face your opponent after the move.

[Dibbz]

Heavy stance is one of those annoying parts of the multiplayer game. Especially when you are fighting multiple enemies and one guy comes by and swings once and you're dead. Its probably annoying for awhile but you'll find the more you play that it happens less because you have become a better player. Plus remember its just a game. Don't get so worked up over it.

[Hamni Nadar]

i admit i use strong saber style quite a lot .... and would like to feel the key to using it is all about timing the delay in the attack is its weakness, both before and after the strike is made. but i also find that all saber styles are as good as each other and is more down to your own personal saber style. i have been beaten many a time by some very skill players dispite me using the strong style ...... i think u need to play about with the styles more your self and find which works best for you aganist ALL other styles. that way you will be able to beat other player who use strong.

 

As for the problem with the forwad down hack hitting even when the saber clear doesnt .... ive been told by other players the same happen when i do the specail move for the Normal saber style .... i thinks its something to do with the clipping (im sure you've notice this in single player) . any way i feel the game is over all balanced between all teh saber styles

[madrebel]

the lunger is the only part of heavy stance that IMO needs some tweaking. The lingering effect is really annoying. Once that saber hits the ground ALL power shold be null and void. That is supposed to be the draw back no? If i cant approach you without taking 90-100% damage what is the draw back?

 

Im confident this will be fixed though.

[aletoledo]

I was really against the red stance (and its death move) till yesterday. I finally tried it out for myself and I can say its not easy to do against someone who knows how to defend against it. I spent all last weekend defending against that stupid move, and honestly I haven't died to it much since (I died a few dozen times learning to defend against/avoid it though).

 

now after using it myself, I can see it for more of a compliment to the other aspects of saber combat. knowing about it and how to defend against almost negates its effectiveness completely, so its really not as bad as I once thought.

[Jiro Kage]

It shouldn't be nullified - but you should take 5 points of damage just as if the saber touched you when it was not being swung, to simulate touching the blade at all.

 

I use heavy randomly, but I cycle through all styles to try and confuse my enemy, much like Exar Kun's style/saber. If you see someone a decent distance away swing randomly in heavy, such as in a duel, I'd say get ready for an incoming heavy strike.

[madrebel]

Originally posted by Jiro Kage

It shouldn't be nullified - but you should take 5 points of damage just as if the saber touched you when it was not being swung, to simulate touching the blade at all.

by power i meant anything above and beyond the 5 damage. ill gladly take 5 damage though if i can deal out a quick 40 or so with my medium style. IMO there isnt enough down side to the heavy lunge. Any really good player is virtually unhittable when they use that attack. Kinda sucks if you ask me.

[Jiro Kage]

Originally posted by madrebel

by power i meant anything above and beyond the 5 damage. ill gladly take 5 damage though if i can deal out a quick 40 or so with my medium style. IMO there isnt enough down side to the heavy lunge. Any really good player is virtually unhittable when they use that attack. Kinda sucks if you ask me.

 

 

Ah, I gotcha. Another thing I think is that you need to be slowed down quite a bit more with the Heavy strikes, as in while they are being executed. Its annoying I think that an opponent can swing at you, but you can't get close cause they back right away - in addition, with the weird hit detection, they could be at the end of their swing with their saber off to one side and you STILL might get hit with it. I guess you can saber throw then (I always do) but the fact you really can't get a quick retaliation kinda stinks.

[madrebel]

jiro the solution to that is to stay really close to them and out quick them. use medium stance for this as it works quite well. hit them and get out before they can hit you.

[Crease]

I think you are right on with not allowing the player to spin when the blade is in the ground Jiro. They should take some damage when the blade is in the ground if they touch it, but the ability to spin makes it difficult for the defender to take advantage of how vulnerable a player should be after that strike. Of course, you can always throw your saber at the guy. I think the move is great and adds to the strategy of dueling.

[madrebel]

saber throw isnt an option to those of us that prefer no force duels.

[Jiro Kage]

Originally posted by madrebel

jiro the solution to that is to stay really close to them and out quick them. use medium stance for this as it works quite well. hit them and get out before they can hit you.

 

Dude, versus a heavy stance user that's psychotic. Sure, you might get in 80 points, but you won't be standing close when they hit you with a heavy swing and it knocks you around as if it was a concussion grenade. You simply CAN'T simply rush in with a heavy user. You can dart in sure, but with the weird hit detection it really makes doing that a dodgy - and scary - issue.

[Jedi_Overlord]

The strong stance is powerful, but I almost never get hit. It's so easy to dodge, it's almost funny. I run behind him and smack him while he's in the middle of his swing. So, it's not unfair, just a matter of effort and practice.

[madrebel]

Originally posted by Jiro Kage

 

Dude, versus a heavy stance user that's psychotic. Sure, you might get in 80 points, but you won't be standing close when they hit you with a heavy swing and it knocks you around as if it was a concussion grenade. You simply CAN'T simply rush in with a heavy user. You can dart in sure, but with the weird hit detection it really makes doing that a dodgy - and scary - issue.

beleive me there is a method to the my maddness you dont rush in while they are swinging...you manveuver yourself in such a way as you are close to them before they start their attack. get them moving side to side and right as they start their attack you pounce on them. It works quite well actually. takes alot of timing and alot of nerves though

[Tree]

Originally posted by stellerwinds

I'm getting a bit tired of the exploits from the heavy stance.

 

I can't stand ctf or team saber servers because its just all spaz button mashing play. Force powers just makes it all more generic no-think death match play, its as bad as guns.

 

No force saber dueling is the only way to go. But even here we have to contend with this annoying red stance which would be fine IF it worked logically.

 

The overhead swing for intance hits you before the saber even begins its downward strike.

The death from above move, contrary to what the book says, doesn't need precise aim to hit at all. And of course it has a totally absurd lingering effect while the saber is in the GROUND. Just approaching too soon from whatever angle gets you hurt bad.

 

Of course we end up with red users who know nothing else besides these expliots. All the can do is line up their jumps or charge in with their power swings which can not be blocked and hit without hitting. Otherwise they run around jumping away like spazes.

 

I'm really hopping something will be done about the obvious problems with some of the red moves. Its alright to have a powerful attack but these moves were obviously designed to give you an edge in the single player game and they are ruining dueling.

 

A patch would be nice but even better would be a mod. Someone needs to give us a bit more control and realism for saber use. A block key for instance and a speed adjustment. You cant have decent saber fights when people are running around full tilt like a spaz.

 

I play NF duels a lot. This is where the problem is really noticeable.

 

To All the people post n00b tips on how to avoid the strong stance swing. Hell anyone can aviod a strong stance swing. Thats not the problem. How do you kill them?

While they are swinging they move the same speed you do. Aside from that they can also jump/roll right after or during a swing. They never attack.

 

I don't think most people play no force duels.

 

All these people say they own strong stance players but I have NEVER seen it. You can own a strong stance person if they have no idea how to swing their saber. You can tell by the posts who actually plays multi-player. It wouldn't suprise me if some of these people use it.

 

You can also beat strong stance using medium or light. It just takes way more skill. Therefore it is unbalanced.

 

I wouldn't worry about it I think most of the good/decent players know it is unbalanced, I think raven does also.

 

Remember he is talking about NO FORCE DUELS. I like the idea of a block button but I think it would make duels last forever and ping would be too much of a factor.

[PRAXEUM]

Not to be rude dude, but stop whining. Red has its benefits and its drawbacks just like all the others. I can defeat red swingers, and people defeat me when im a red swinger.

 

Dont whine about something that you claim needs a fix that doesnt.

 

PRAXEUM

[DannyDiplo]

Originally posted by PRAXEUM

Dont whine about something that you claim needs a fix that doesnt.

So the fact that some of the strong stance swings can still cause truck loads of damage after they miss and the saber is in the ground shouldn't be fixed? The fact that if there blade comes anywhere near you, even without touching you it can still do damage shouldn't be fixed? The fact that the manual says it needs a precise blow and yet in reality it doesn't shouldn't be fixed? And don't try and say this is a ping thing 'cos I get a 30 ping on Jolt servers and have seen it happen many times as have many other people. That is what needs fixing.

[stellerwinds]

I see a lot of people understand what im talking about.

 

For the record I already know how to use force powers, i prefer playing on no force servers, i dont need to *find* any cuz i already play there.

It's not lag as many have said, i play with a 30ping usually.

 

I not whining about getting owned because i actually do quite well with yellow stance. I win my fair share of 10 round duels and there are people who treat me as a respected dueler on the servers I play on. So take your whining crap elsewhere.

 

There IS a real problem with some red stance moves.

If you approach someone after they have performed the death from above attack, while their saber is in the ground infront of them, aproach them from BEHIND and you still get hurt.

You all know what the linger times on these attacks are because like some suggest, you know to avoid them. So dont tell me im making stuff up.

Also most of you know about the absurd area of effects these attacks have and that they hit when they arent even fully executed yet and even after they are done being executed. Because again you know how to avoid them.

 

Well we shouldnt have to know to avoid them because they are visually Wrong. I don't give a crap how powerful the attacks are or if they cant be avoided. But they had better be visually correct and not ludicrous exploits. Saber combat is supposed to be a precise art.