TechTV "Extended Play" Review of JK2

[TrUeFoRcE]

actually ide have to agree with them on the game when they stated "its like a jedi knight mod of quake3" obviously the single player isnt but the multiplayer does look too quake deathmatchish something i feared from the beginning, single player is fun but after solving it using god mode and slicing up people is the only fun im having with the game, and with certain force powers like seeing not in sp, and force destruction not in the game at all (which was one of the best force powers) ide have to say they need some work on their storylines and mp gameplay, but they definately know graphics...the graphics and animations are the best ive seen so far but with the slowed down pace, lack of "fun" when your trying to go throguh sp i wouldnt call it much of a star wars game but a good game never the less......definately a great game for moders, ide say 50 50 on buying the game now but before i actually bought it i was 100% sure i was going to but now that i have in a way its not worth the money but it also is....so...thats my opinion on the game...

[Bacon00]

OK, what did you expect from a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER?

 

You shoot things. That's all you do in EVERY FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. I fail to see what people were expecting. I was expecting Quake 3 Star Wars. What I got was an awesome game that doesn't seem like Quake, but like actually playing a Jedi Knight.

 

You can't compare games to anything by other games in their genre. It's like saying "Jedi Knight sucks because it isn't an RTS. 2 out of 5 stars." It's a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. You play a character that shoots stuff. WHAT DO YOU WANT???

 

And no one can really agree that this game deserves a 40%. You may say it does, but in your heart you know that it does what it promises to do, and maybe a bit more. 40% goes to games that don't do what they are promised to do. If JKII promised lightsaber fights but instead gave you people swinging a colored stick with one animation, it would deserve a 40%. But JKII doesnt do this - you have real, complex lightsaber fights.

 

40% is an absurd score. It's laughable. And I would imagine that anyone with half a brain would agree with this assesment.

[Sartis]

Ridiculous puzzles? they weren't that bad really I mean if you were in a Imperial base would you really know your way around rather than have the map tell you exactly where? come on it was adding abit of realism. Most of the jumping puzzles had reasons why, ie the comm thing being that you didnt have access to the computer so had to do it manually.

 

The levels were huge, and I did miss having the ability to go anywich way I wanted and still end up at the end, and we did have that for a few levels, but when a major puzzle came up there was no way around it, wich seems right to me. The Puzzles weren't really hard at all, I don't think any one of them had me stuck for more than 15 minutes if that.

 

Sure JO has some faults, but that review is pretty much way off. I still again don't see why people are complaining about the puzzles's being too hard, remember your not supposed to know your way around everywhere just because you do.

 

Anyways everybody has they're own opinion, even though some people may be pickier than others.

[hughJ]

what they rated it is really just an accumulation of the points they made... based on the criteria that they reviewed the game under, most of what they said had some basis in fact..

 

for a game that obviously had most of its work put into the single player experience, the SP portion is really lacking.. the saber fights, although pretty cool, really aren't something that I'd go as far as to call "complex", and aren't enough to make up for the other weaknesses..

 

the JK2 single player engine mechanics (weapons, fighting system, etc) ARE a positive result of Raven's work - but they really don't have a good gaming environment for them to be done justice... a very strong single-player addon would/could be enough to turn this game into a true 90+% performer, but as it stands right now the single player elements lack all the qualities that games like Deus Ex, SS(or so I'm told ), etc have that deserve such a high rating...

 

the game *appears* to have the polish of a 90% performer, yet in reality it's planned out like a 30-40% performer..

[TrUeFoRcE]

thats your opinion bacon, i think that raven with all the technology they have at their disposal could have made alot better of a story line, and made the maps more fun to play, also they left alot of features out that were in jk1, such as force destruction, the conc riffle, the rail gun, the actual speed of force speed not jsut some trail behind you and a double speed boost at max, i was playing jk1 the other day and if raven made an exact copy of it with the graphics JO has i doubt it would get any bad reviews, and as for the "what do you expect its a first person shooter you shoot people....." obviously you shoot things but people want more than jsut shooting things in games because thats jsut about every game out there, people want to have fun after they solve it, and have a nice story line to follow with a great ending not that junk ending in JO, and the game is alot like quake 3 maybe not soo much in sp but in mp its almost an exact copy with sabers and force powers added, raven does a great job with graphics and top of the line technology but ive never liked the quake deathmatch type games and mp in JO is pretty much that....i dont agree with a 40% rating i dont think the game was that bad it has alot of good points but alot of bad oens as well.......if raven had made the game like they previously planned...like the very first JO movie it says that they were planning on having buddy AI where like if you help someone with something then later on in the game they will help you out, and that the game would have tons of small extra missions to do, but all thats there is a straight forward game with no side missions and jsut a few secret areas in maps, and you get buddy ai but there pretty much just handed too you for a small amount of time...then never help you face desann or tavion or anything important.....im not saying its overall a bad game but it does need some work.....if raven just stuck to the way jk1 was made and enhanced the graphics then they would have a great game, and though there story line wasnt that bad after you get throguh it all you end up saying thats it? i mean your left with pretty much a thankyou in the end and thats it...

[worm777]

For me a huge part of this game is pretending to be a Jedi, chopping people up all while force pushing troopers to their doom. I think for most people you have to love the movies to love this game. If you don't like Star Wars your not gonna get as much enjoyment out of it.

[hughJ]

i enjoy the atmosphere and idea of roleplaying as a jedi as much as the next guy... especially why I dread the release of star wars galaxies, as I may turn into an Evercrack-like addict...

 

the SP experience in JO was fun for me mainly due to the those reasons as well... but after having completed the game, and taking a few minutes to remember the experiences I had in the game that I might consider memorable.. I really can't come up with all that much...

 

then I remember Deus Ex.. (which I haven't even touched for over a year - ie. I can still remember vividly many of the experiences).. sneaking about in the airplane hanger stock yard... and you didn't sneak because you were "supposed to" (where if you're seen, you wind up triggering a cutscene that restarts the mission) if you are sneaking in that game, you're sneaking to stay alive.. then there's the incredibly dynamic roleplaying elements that tie in so well to the FPS DM aspects of its gameplay, where things like personal abilities are chosen and improved upon based on what you feel like being.... doors in Deus Ex that don't have to do with your objective path aren't simply textured onto the wall with nothing behind them... mostly every door in Deus Ex has some combination of lock, etc that can be opened *if you want to*.. that alone makes you feel like you're a part of something bigger... the level where you're trapped in a cell in your own HQ.. and you need to duck and sneak your way past security cameras, and you have no weapons to speak of, of any kind... it's amazing how they can go and turn a friendly-home base map where you're simply an employee into a hostile environment... you actually feel some of those same feelings that your character would be feeling in such a situation... I must have spent like 3-4 hours on the first level of Deus Ex just getting used to the idea of not running and gunning, having to hide bodies of guys you take out, and I loved every minute of it... the game didn't seem so much based on the mission goals because you were having so much of an experience just getting there.. once I passed a level.. you kinda have that feeling like you missed a whole lot of the level.. like you didn't see every corner of the map... which is exactly how it should feel.. a level's depth only needs to be a little bit more than you can take in everytime... level planning and depth that constantly greets you with door-textured walls, linear paths, and obvious road blocks at every turn can turn what was a great atmosphere into a pretty 2dimensional experience..

 

if JO's force powers were chosen and changed more dynamically based on how you played.. if maps were able to be more complex and allow for some of the adventure elements that should be involved in a starwars game.. that make you feel like a smaller part of a larger universe, then the starwars license.. the music.. the roleplaying of being a jedi would all come out much stronger... when you look at a JO level.. you can't see the elevators and somehow rationalize their reallife need or use in that game environment... every single useable door, platform, walkway, ramp, or elevator winds up being something necessary for you to use on your one-path journey from start to finish...

[Bacon00]

No one has answered my question:

 

What did you expect? It's a freaking GAME for gods sake. It was promised to be an FPS w/ lightsabers. What did you get? An fps with lightsabers. Never was there said to be an "adventure" element, never was there said to be an RPG elements. Raven does kick-butt FPS, and that's what we got. Stop whining about something that you were never told you were going to get. You're just creating stuff to whine about.

 

I'm done with this - the majority of people agree that this review is crap, but there are those out there that say JKII is "lacking," but don't give any examples to back up their comments. HOW is it lacking? HOW could it be made better? Someone said lightsaber fights were not "complex." OK, then, how would they be made complex, and made controllable, fun, and easy to learn? You can have the "deepest" game in the world, but it's not going to be fun, as the learning curve will be pretty steep.

 

People are expecting too much from a video game. There's only so much they can do. Everyone wants "groundbreaking" and "new," but they really don't know *what* they want, just that it has to be really really cool.

 

As I see it, JK2 is really, really cool. Well worth the $40 I spent. End of story.

 

That's my 2 cents.

[TrUeFoRcE]

obviously you have a 1 track mind bacon, and if all jedi games are how you described them "an fps with guns and a lightsaber" then i doubt anyone would buy them at all....the foundation of all star wars games is the story and adventure without that then you cant distinct 1 game from another as being good or bad, yhou can only base the game on graphics and thats actually not very important if the game has a great sense of adventure and a great story, i agree the game is worth buying, and their rating was a bit low, but i totally agree wtih tech tv on their review on whats good and whats bad about the game

 

and what i expected from JO as i do from any game with a sp is a great story and a sense of adventure not just walking around shooting people for no reason over and over...

 

"Never was there said to be an "adventure" element, never was there said to be an RPG elements" - i can prove you wrong on this one, if you want i can send you the video file where they said they were trying to implement this sort of stuff into the game, and without an adventure element in any game makes the game as boring as pong so dont say that adventure and story arent needed in an fps especially one based on a storyline like star wars!

[Darth Lunatic]

Bacon00 i see your point of view.

 

I like many other people are waiting for a groundbreaking, revolutionary first person shooter. That is both fun but extremely deep. Jedi knight 2 is neither of these. It just slightly advances what has been done many times before. That was what i expected, and i wasn't disappointed or significantly amazed.

 

People who are grossly disappointed with JK2 (like that reviewer) were obviously expecting that new groundbreaking/revolutionary fps/3rdps. That can be blamed on ignorance of course.

[Darth Blaze]

This game is great that review was stupid and they just wanted to be different ...raven had to get this game out fast cause lucas gave them a fast deadline to get it out i think under a year and they were doing SOF 2 at the same time alot of people didnt even suspect the multiplayer to be as good as it is...they had 2 different teams doing sp/mp.....thats why lots of the combat is different....and you only see the sp models in mutiplayer cause the multiplayer team didnt have time to make new ones etc. oh i did email them on there review..i respect anyones views of a game ither its bad or good.....but the things they were saying didnt make much sence. tomuch pussles etc. i think this guy rushed to the game with cheat codes and since they didnt have a FLY cheat he couldntn pass the jumping objects....

 

And as for the mutiplayer review he prolly gets owned everytime and is really tired of it ..so he wants Not to fight his friends but to join up with them.......not that im saying co-op wont be great cause i would enjoy it 2...but thats what expansion are for.

 

40% lololololol anyone who agree's with that "and still plays this game" are skipping there special ed classes tomuch.

[hughJ]

"This game is great that review was stupid and they just wanted to be different ...raven had to get this game out fast cause lucas gave them a fast deadline to get it out i think under a year and they were doing SOF 2 at the same time...."

-rationalizing why the game is flawed, doesn't make it any less flawed, or less deserving of a bad review...

 

"but the things they were saying didnt make much sence. tomuch pussles etc."

-the reviewer never said, "too many puzzles", they said, "bizarre jumping puzzles", which is something that many other people have mentioned, it's not just something the reviewer made up to bash the game about in his review..

 

" i think this guy rushed to the game with cheat codes and since they didnt have a FLY cheat he couldntn pass the jumping objects...."

-noclip = flying

[TheMonkeys]

Since a lot has already been said about this review, I would like to look at it from a different perspective: a comparison between the review of JO, and that of CnC: Renegade.

 

What they said about CnC: Renegade...

 

The game's single-player campaign is quite simple, and the mechanics of gameplay are easy to grasp if you've ever played an action title (and surely most RTS fans have). Maneuvering about in a firefight keeps you on your toes, but at no point does the game get overly difficult. This is due in part to the game's artificial intelligence (AI), which acts and re-acts in a very simple, almost unnatural fashion. Certainly this is the game's biggest shortcoming, providing only a moderate challenge on the game's most difficult (of three) settings. For the most part, the C&C arsenal works well hands-on, but the multitude of handheld weapons have an almost generic feel to them. They lack any sort of punch that the big nukes provided in the RTS game, and one could almost argue that the game lacks the substantial gore factor to do justice to something like the chemical sprayer.

 

Lack of any challenge from the game? Sounds like a pretty big problem to me. Jedi Outcast always provided the player with a challenge, something which was, for me, very important. Sure, the game got frustrating at places, but the best games are not good because they are easy, but because they are challenging.

 

What they said about CnC: Renegade...

 

For some diehards, the coolest feature will be the ability to commandeer an enemy vehicle for an in-level joyride. While not always the most functional means of combat, this transportation selection is a welcome addition. There is definitely something fulfilling about driving a NOD Buggy, as well as other staples of the C&C universe, like a flame tank or, better yet, a harvester. The levels are quite large, with plenty of area to explore -- however, at times it seems as if there is too much of a focus on hallways and corridors, which means you will primarily be walking and running throughout the game.

 

 

Vehicles are a nice touch, but I believe they were implemented to a lesser extent in Jedi Outcast.

 

What they said about CnC: Renegade...

 

The mix of environments is decent, and while most look solid, the game lacks an overall polish in the level of detail, namely in its textures and atmospheric effects, which keep it from matching the visuals of recent FPS titles. Other features balance out the shortcomings, like the ability to pull the camera back and play the game from a third-person viewpoint, which is a nice option, and certainly helps navigate key parts in the game.

 

Interestingly, Westwood has done away with the entertaining full-motion video cut scenes that have graced past C&C titles. Instead, here we find in-game movies to move the plot forward. Thankfully, the clips are both entertaining and informative and have an excellent cinematic quality to them. In many ways, they help maintain the pacing of the story line throughout the game.

 

Given all the changes, perhaps the game's most familiar area is its sound track, which incorporates many familiar sound effects and themes from past C&C titles. While not a bold move forward, it helps root the game.

 

Jedi Outcast, in comparison, had amazing graphics and also used in-game movies to move the plot forward. Thankfully, the clips (from Jedi Outcast) are both entertaining and informative and have an excellent cinematic quality to them. In many ways, they help maintain the pacing of the story line throughout the game (anybody feeling deja vu? ).

 

The music in Jedi Outcast was great and kept a continous "Star Wars" feel throughout.

 

What they said about CnC: Renegade...

 

While the single-player mode has its share of problems, the excellent multiplayer game should keep most gamers coming back for more. While not perfect, "Renegade" does offer substantial value and a welcome change of pace.

 

Jedi Outcast's single player is, IMO, very good and has very few problems, and its multiplayer is also very entertaining and enjoyable.

 

How they could give Renegade 4/5 and JO 2/5 when comparing both reviews, I do not know.

[Foxbatkllr]

If you find the puzzles too difficult or too frustrating, you fall into one of these three categories:

1. You've only played the first couple of levels.

2. You're stupid.

3. You have ADD. In which case you should stop playing video games and take your ridalin.

 

At first the puzzles are a pain but that so called jumping puzzle in the doomgiver I found to be quite easy and entertaining. I figured it our rather quickly, and if you listen to what Kyle says, he gives you clues. You just need to do more investigating.

 

By the way, the puzzles should be a little challenging but they are not super ultra difficult.

[hughJ]

"the best games are not good because they are easy, but because they are challenging"

 

the best games are good because of intelligent game design, smart level planning, involving gameplay, atmospheric tension and feeling, and deep gameplay that allows for a relatively different experience for every user who plays the game... can you honestly tell me that there is a unique difference of experience for every user who plays JK2 single player? Some people may enjoy the game more than others, but the actual path and experience from the beginning to the end of the game is virtually *identical* for every single person who plays the game due to the level+game planning...

 

if you play any of the quality single player FPSs out there and use a walkthrough, you are *definitely* losing something to the experience, as many of the things you find are due to exploring and discovering them for yourself.. the things that you don't need to progress in the level are lost by using a walkthrough, and the game goes from becoming a much more open-ended unique experience, to a more linear experience like JK2...

 

if you play JK2 with a walk through, not much (if any) of the experience is lost... the levels are designed to lead you where you need to go and nothing more, doors that would normally lead to unnecessary paths to other parts of a base are simply painted onto the walls and are seemingly 'locked'... the doors that can be opened, *need* to be opened so that you can progress further...

[Nax]

HughJ> you are inching closer and closer to getting into the same boat as that reviewer (that is, being cool by being different). You are carrying on arguments against certian people can clearly not be argued with.

 

That being said, I noticed that none of the in-game footage in the show was from a level past the 5th, which has not been the standard Extended Play style as far as I can tell (even in the quick mosaic of flipping switches). I don't recall, but was there a copyright law regarding game exposure in reviews or was this simply a curious choice by the Extended Play editors?

 

One thing must be said: this game is longer than pretty much any other game out on the market. Most gaming websites took 3 or more days to get a review up after the game's release. Most of the websites posted first impressions of the game, which were not particularly favorable. =O)

 

Nax

[hughJ]

i gave valid reasons for everything I said.. nothing was baseless.. I have no hidden motives.. and I most certainly am not trying to look cool by being different.. reviewers perhaps can generate more interest by being different, but I have no such thing to gain..

 

i guess there really isn't much to argue.. because you're left with two groups of people... one which cares about deep and involving gameplay, the other which doesn't (or is just easily impressed, or quickly able to overlook overall level play due to nice use of the starwars license in graphics and sound)..

 

the game length.. was about average I found, only took a couple days to pass it.. didn't seem all that much longer than RtCW, and level design definitely wasn't anywhere near as polished..

[Amorpheus]

Originally posted by Nax

HughJ> you are inching closer and closer to getting into the same boat as that reviewer (that is, being cool by being different).

How about "being cool" because he's honest about what he thinks? Ever thought of that?

 

The problem with JO isn't that it's a bad game, far from it. But it's also quite a bit from what it could have been.