Guns and Drain

[Cow_JK:O]

Flame away and away and away and away...

 

Guns:

 

Do I whine when people use them? No. Are they generally easy to deal with. YES! Are many of them overly powererful (alt repeater, alt flechette, the fact that saber wont block all bolts etc)? Yes. WHY do people use guns? Why dont they go to quake3? Simple. People who want to play the game with just sabers (akin to the name) will play the game with sabers. To a gun '*****' these targets are much easier than in Q3 or UT because they only use a melee weapon. The fact of the matter is, IN GENERAL, people who use guns [exclusively] are people who just want easy kills. Rather sick IMHO, but really there is no point in debating the subject past this. People who want 'free' kills, will take an alt repeater and rain hell down on those who dont want to use guns. Go to a saber only? OK..thats sound advice for sure, but thats not the point here. My only point is that people need to realize that these gun '*****s' will not change because they see an easy way to get kills (why that matters I dont know..using guns to get easy kills isn't very fun IMHO) and they will always do it. Going to Q3 is too hard for them--people might fight back

 

Drain:

 

I'll get even more flamed for this, but people need to realize that drain is overpowered for so many reasons. I'll try to list them.

 

Drain + Grip: This is the ONLY combo with drain that truly is ridiculous. The fact that you can do *NOTHING* makes me think this move should not be possible. I have 3 in push for people who use grip alone and its perfectly balanced like that, but drain and grip..they just sit there until I'm low and then SLASH. Sure I eventually get the force back but its too slow.

 

Drain vs. Heal: This is the PURE imbalance. Assuming two players choose the roughly same neutral powers, dark is more powerful period. You can say they're balanced but look at this:

 

Drain--Low Force, Heals, Drains Mana (Stopping Opponent from using ANY force powers unless they QUICKLY pull of a drain or absorb (almost always too slow unless you have a godly connection))

 

Heal-More (Medium) Force, Heals.

 

These are the SAME points. Yeah you can use heal whenever but just look--drain = less force, more gain. Absorb? Well *IF* you can get off an absorb before they drain you, then you got lucky, have an insane connection, or are lying. Its far too tricky to be consistent. AND assuming you also want the ability to heal, you have to spend MORE force points to get a heal + a counter to drain. Drain is a counter to itself so there is ANOTHER advantage--heal is not a counter (any more than healing damage which drain also does).

 

People who say drain is overpowered really dont know what they're talking about.

 

Oh and yeah call me a whiner but I dont really care about my score at all, I just think the game would be more fun with a toned down drain (thats what the game is about right?). Oh and I'm not hoping or asking for any changes to guns. I was just stating my opinon there.

[gaeb]

No intent to flame, this has been covered elsewhere in depth...

 

Yes, weapons are easier to kill with than sabers. Archery became dominant over swordplay as soon as it became advanced enough for an archer to kill a swordsman with little difficulty. The mongol horde which conquered most of the known world in 1200 was built around a core of horse archers - mobile firepower which could evade dangerous situations. In the modern world, we fight for AIR superiority, because from there we can destroy any concentration of power. And so forth. Melee combat is generally a last resort...

 

So, yes, weapons > sabers, and anyone who's aiming to get kills and doesn't particularly care about the method will know that and use them at their discretion.

 

As far as Drain being cheap... a lot of the force powers are 'cheap' one way or another. I use Drain frequently, and I have it used against me frequently, and either way I don't find it too distressing. It's almost hilarious when you hit drain at the same time as your opponent and both of you run out of force in a half a second... and then saber it out.

 

I dunno. Your points are valid... but it won't change that people want to achieve victory with the least risk to themselves. If that means chucking a person off a ledge, draining them of all their force so they're less dangerous (try pushing them when they do that), or shooting them in the head with a sniper rifle from all the way across the map, that's what they'll do... because in the end, they'll be alive and their opponent will be dead. Life's harsh like that.

 

- Gaeb

[Cow_JK:O]

Honestly I dont believe any force powers other than drain are cheap. Grip..yeah, its powerful but EASY to counter (thats the key). Lightning? *LAUGH* I just go up and whack people who use lightning, OR RUN AWAY! Absorb? Uh..its just a counter. Heal? Lots of mana, all it does it heal!! Protection? Um.. Mind Trick? Uh... Dark Rage? MAYBE in CTF (I usually play FFA). Push? Its useful as hell, a great counter, but its rare that people get pushed down and you have to get lucky and slash them just right. Pushing people off ledges? It sort of depends..I think its fun to have push fests sometimes but not always. And no I never complain when I get pushed. Pull? Its VITAL, so no point in arguing. Jump? .... Speed? Kinda sucks if you ask me! (Except CTF/CTY)

 

So I dont really see how you could make strong arguments for any other force powers being cheap. The problem with drain is that it is virtually uncounterable without a lot of luck (this wont work with consistency) or a godly connection. Even with a godly conection they can wait until absorb runs off, if you drain them back..well I suppose thats fine, but thats like saying you must play dark unless you're connection is out of this world! Any anyway, in fights of more than 2 people, you can never anticipate who will join in or do what, etc.

 

Hmm.

[Cow_JK:O]

Bump.