This is a must read for those of 'honor'...

[Saint Nuke]

I have to agree with S!TH on some points. But should there be a structured code? Dunno, I have not seen one yet. But there should be common courtesy. Any time I've accidentally slashed someone while they challenged me I've apologized because I feel lame for it, mistake or not. I don't see how anyone could possibly make a game career out of it and call themselves good with a straight face. It's like any game I guess, you can rack up 50 kills spawn killing/cheese killing or you can do it with some honor/respect/<place word here>.

 

It doesn't really matter, in time these things get worked out. People who hinge thier victory on 1 shot kills (common counters will come up more and more) and killing AFK people, trash talkers ect. will either adapt and overcome or become another car in the endless train "eh, he's OK, but not good really" players. People with actual skill will get to be more known and respected as time goes on. But take a loss as a learning experience....not as a springboard to complain.

 

I pay my respect to my opponents when applicable. A good or even average player who is cool about it gets my respect, a "L33T d00d" ("n00b y0u 5ux0r5, u ju5t g0t 0w3d by my l1ght54b3r") won't earn my respect no matter how good they play. Unfortunately those mutants are everywhere (except real life).

 

As for arguing if killing someone who is facing a wall saber closed (AFK or putting out a cigarette) is honorable or not "depends on what a person calls honorable" argument. How can that be an argument? It reminds me of the Bill Clinton trials "is oral secks adultry?" OF COURSE IT IS! Call it just having fun, playing a game, fraglust ect. not one person's version of honor. It's not honor any way you slice it.

 

Above all, have fun, it's just game. In time no one will remeber if D4rth L33td00d could frag JediGoat 25 times a match, they'll just remember D4rth was an @$$ and JediGoat was cool. The day i read "Guy racks up 80 frags, gets $1 million and all the women he wants" I'll take it seriously. Until then I'm just gonna wall run, taunt my friends over and over, slash Z for Zorro into walls and have fun with the people I like.

 

Things I learned while having fun:

1) How to force jump on a no force server: Throw a thermal detonator at your feet and wait

2) Zorro can be slashed into walls pretty fast with practice.

3) Running around saber closed hitting taunt over and over will get lots of people chasing and slashing at you, which helps those dodge skills

4) You don't get a frag count for taking out windows....but those windows know who thier daddy is when it's all over.

5) Jedi mind trick combined with taunt works well against those jumpy players.

6) You can make up just about anything and (some) people will believe it (CTF example: PADAWAN: What do I do with our flag? I'm at our base and nothing is happening. Me: Did you kill our flag carrier yet? The flag carrier has to before returning the flag, he's in our base, come get him.)

7) Racking up frags actually gets sort of boring after a while.

[Rogerwilco2002]

Saint Nuke I am just glad you get the overall picture.

 

Fun

 

Respect

 

And yes it is infact just a game. I am done arguing with people for tonight though. I'll pick up again though cause I have to defend my thread. hehe

[igor]

My honor code is to be a good sport, don't get pissed, and have fun.

 

There are too many things in this world to get worked up over, and a game is very very low on my list.

[Saint Nuke]

Well Igor, video games are at the TOP of my list! I think we should elect video games as our next president, I'm getting a JK2 tatoo on my butt tommorrow!

I'm changing my name to video games

 

Good point Igor hehe

[S!TH!NAT0R]

But there should be common courtesy. Any time I've accidentally slashed someone while they challenged me I've apologized because I feel lame for it, mistake or not. I don't see how anyone could possibly make a game career out of it and call themselves good with a straight face. It's like any game I guess, you can rack up 50 kills spawn killing/cheese killing or you can do it with some honor/respect/<place word here>.

.......well, thats what this code is all about. Common courtesy and Respect for fellow players. Those of you that bash me and others for agreeing with that idea do so because the code is against lousy/cheap players like yourselves.....and you don't like it.

-To me, common courtesy means not running up and killing an immobile player just because they're immobile at the moment or offering someone a duel then killing them after they run up to you to accept because you think it's just so goddamn funny. -It seems to me there's alot of kids here and maybe thats the problem......

....MATURITY vs. IMMATURITY. -Propose an idea and here comes all the pre-teen/teen immature assholes to flame with thier over-abnoxious selves. -It looks like I picked the wrong damn forum to get involved into a game because obviously this is nothing more than a good game forum ruined by 90% immature kiddies! -I am over and done with this issue and I still can't believe I goy mildly worked up over something as trifle as this. .........I am done:rolleyes:

[Trienco]

i really wonder. why is everybody insulted if you say it is a cheap kill? there's a simple definition of cheap: it doesnt cost much. so in a game everything that doesnt require risk or skill is cheap. i'm cheap too, so what? if somebody is attacking with the headless chicken style i either back away and throw or kill him with a nice red swing.

just dont complain if people call it cheap to kill someone who's not at the pc, busy typing or challenging someone. it IS cheap because it doesnt require skill and you never risked to be killed by him. just like kasparov beating a 6 year old child in chess is cheap.

if you feel insulted by that, your problem. just ask yourself: if it's not cheap why is it so damn easy?

[Kippla]

If someone bows to me I'll bow back. Common curtesy. But otherwise I won't. I think it just slows the game down and can get tedius.

 

Also, when I start a duel I go pure saber. And only use forces when they are used on me first. This isn't because of some honour b/s. I do this purely for the challenge. Just jumping in going all out on someone seems pretty boring to me. I much prefer fighting with the person on their own level. Fights are definately more interesting and varied this way. And the win feels a lot better because you worked hard for it. (I know how many heal addicts are out there, a cold turky win can feel real good ) also, I've never had an opponent accuse me of lame fighting, because since I'm always only using the same tactics as them, they can't complain, and they usually agree it was a much more enjoyable fight.

 

So no, I don't kill people when they have their saber down, bowing etc. coz if I did, I wouldn't enjoy the kill as much because I wouldn't feel like I worked for it. So honour? b/s. It's just my personal style of play, which I do because I find it makes for a more enjoyable game. I think honour is getting confused with just personal preference of play (each to their own). Shudup and go play some jedi

[TasamBladefire]

I have an enjoy-the game state of mind. Being pushed off the ledge <does> piss me off. Why? Because I wont push you off, its not gratifying at <all!> If im going to take someone down, im going to do it with a saber through their gut', or a blaster bolt between the eyes, not by pushing you off, getting an insta-kill. If you grip me, and walk to a pit(deathstar level for example) and throw me in, nice one, thats a good way to do it, it actually involves a <little> skill! But on Narshadda Streets, or Warring Sides, if you push me off, you wont see the end of me. I will snipe you so many times you leave the server. 'Well thats a n00b thing to do!' Well, perhaps it is, but I cant stand force push. The only time I think force pushing is relativley honorable, is using it to knock someone down and rush em. If you would rather go the no-skills way of doing things, fine, push me off the ledges ALL you want, It will piss me off, but ill be ok. Why? Because as soon as we get to the next map that isnt ledge-packed, im gonna skin you.

 

And you who say you have a 'different' code of honor, as in not bowing, and killing people who are un-armed, well, thats not honor fellas, thats blatant <dis>honor. If you attack me when my saber is off, whats that say about you? It says you are horribly dishonorable, because what does it mean when there are saber fights going on all over the level, and someone has their lightsaber sheathed? It means im looking for a duel. If your one of those folks who attacks the idle/un-armed, well you probobally had a blank stare on your face as you read that, knowing absolutley nothing about a 'duel'.

 

And about killing people who are idle on a spawn point....dont worry about t3h 'p0in7', let the other n00bs get the fr33bi3. You can hold yourself high with integrety and honor, and wait for the poor CI guy to start moving, and then challenge em, or just rush em. Why are you so worried about points anyway? You get nothing from winning a match but, well, nothing.

 

Whoever said 'I play for skill not points' I think you have the perfect idea of how this game should pe played, in order for <everyone!> to enjoy it to its absolute fullest. Playing dishonorably so that <YOU> may enjoy it too its fullest, is downright wrong, you dont take into account ANYONE else you play with, exept perhaps your friends, who I doubt you have any of, because you would still kill them when they are idle, or you would run around strong-jump-slashing them the whole time like you do everyone else. (to nobody specific, that last statement)

 

Anyway, I play with honor, if you have a problem with it, fine, chase me around the level pushing me off, or kill me when im afk, or kill me when im waiting for a challenge, its fine with me. Just know, you WONT see an end to me, or 'Sabered by Tasam' on your screen. And if you complain to me that im picking you as a target, so be it, you deserved it by being dishonorable.

[TasamBladefire]

Having honor IS a style of play son. Your being hypocritcial if you say you have your own style of play, and tell us to shut up about honor b/s, when in fact, it IS a style of play.

 

May G0rd have mercy on your n00b soul.(Bahaha )

[D66]

Oh I find force push on Nar-Shadda Streets to be VERY gratifing!

 

You sir have just said that you expect ME to play the game YOUR way. Sorry. Aint happening. You want to try and hound me after I push you... BRING IT.

You'll just find yourself pushed more

 

Each of us paid for this game... Each of us has a right to use whatever we see fit in a FFA server. If You don't want to use certin tactics.. fine don't use them, but understand that just because YOU don't do something dosent mean that NO ONE should.

[TasamBladefire]

Oh well how skilled do you think you are? When you spend so much time pushing and pulling people around like a little child, I spend my time fighting saber combat, practicing and honing my skills, not WASTING my time getting CHEAP, no-skill pre-req kills.

 

Your the prime example of the little n00bs we have been talking about over 50 THOUSAND topics. You just told me you would just keep pushing me when I come after you. That is very comical.

 

While you are running around like a headless chicken, pushing the hell out of me, ill just go fight with someone else, and then when you, as im sure you will, come up and try to push me off during our fight, ill just put on a little force absorb, and kill that fella, and then come over to you, and slice through your neck, as you wonder why I didnt fall off. And then, on the next map, when there arent any ledges for your pitiful little self to enjoy pushing people off of, I will obliterate you time and again, and you will start crying to your mommy.

 

I dont expect you to play how I play, only how you play determines how many times I beat the living tar out of you.

[D66]

if you push me off, you wont see the end of me. I will snipe you so many times you leave the server

 

Your words. If you pull that on me

1) I doubt I would notice

2) I'm always up for a 1 on 1 challenge, even on a croweded server

 

My comment was just a reaction to YOUR above statement.

 

My skills are plenty honed. On non-ledge maps I hve NO problem standing up for myself. But YOU just need to understand that Push is in the game due to a decision by the developers. Nar-Shadda is designed as a Push-pull-grip fest. The Map just BEGS for pushing. What the hell did you think the map designer was thinking when he designed all those narrow catwalks and long falls?

Then again, He's the level designer so his "vision" should not dictate HOW the player plays. None the less, His vision does have some bearing on the absurdity of your argument. Complaining about being pushed off a ledge on Nar-Shadda, is like complaining about High Jumps in the Half-Life map Bounce, or complaining about Snipers on the UT map Facing_worlds, Or Complaining about being knocked off the catwalk in the original JK map "Bespin Mining Station"

You see, Nar-Shadda is a CONCEPT map... The concept i lots of easy falls and precarious walkways. Add Push, pull, grip to the mix and you have pure bedlam. I have had Great fun getting pushed and pushing on Nar-Shada. The map Itself is a weapon. And when the map is being used properly, it's hilarious.

 

Now, in responce to your classification of me as

the prime example of the little n00bs

I'll have you know that

I've direct connected for 1v1 Doom

I had a Ten account for Duke Nukem

I was on the zone for X-wing vs Tie

I knew When and where to alt-Fire the Rail on Bespin Mining to catch the ledge hider in JKI

I knew the route to run to dominate Canyon Oasis

I *****ed about the Carbonite Rifle in MOTS

I Knew the timing of the air-strike switch on the 1/2 Life map Crossfire

I know the location of all the items for a True-shot bow in Everquest

I know When to use the Alt-Fire with the Flack in Unreal

I can ski a heavy across a Tribes map faster than an APC

I can dodge a Mechwarrior III Missile Salvo w/o thinking

I have felt the glee of a head-bite in AVP

I know that there is no Redemer on CTF_November

I have watched helplessly a my friends were sucked into Counterstrike

I have run a perfect Cap-Route on Raindance in Tribes 2

I have learned NOT to use the MG42s on Omaha in MOHAA

I know the Timing of a Heavy swing, The Jump-flip of Medium, and when to use Light

 

I am D66

I am a PC gamer.

So, I'll repeat myself

Bring IT!

[H.B.M.C.]

I'm all for an Honour code, it's a cool idea! Jedi have 'em. Dark Jedi have 'em! Hell, even Sith have 'em!

 

But just don't try and apply it to games that are specifically designed to have people running around blasting each other with guns, sabres and force powers. As someone said, it's like pissin' into the wind!

 

BYE

[Spider AL]

Well, it's refreshing to see people with a code of honour. I've had one since the early days of JK1, and it's been a great help.

 

But, people here shouldn't confuse such trivial things as bowing (or, more accurately, squatting in a constipated manner) before a duel, with real issues of honour. Honour is about not cheating... and it's about being courteous in word and deed to others. I look at this thread, and I see most of the people claiming to have honour, screaming "j00 l@m0rz!!11" at those with other viewpoints to them. This is not the way of honour. Shape up, you dishonourable insulting types!

[Dvlos]

Whining about push is stupid, whining about anything in the game is dumb. OBviously if its grossly unbalanced it will be patched.

 

I believe I posted only in this one guys thread about saber throw...and an opponent constantly using the same tactic over and over and over and over... you get the idea.

 

Yes, even in the original JK you could camp. THe original force protection was rediculous...but people still used it... For people that overuse one tactic, I THINK, they ruin the game, but luckily this game has multiple counters to any one tactic, and those that do only ONE strat at a time will pay for it.

 

For example, usually on FF FFA Saber games, if ther is a fray going on (3 or more peeps engaged in Saber fights) I will just hop in, I know there is a large chance I will get nailed from the back, or force lightnin'ed to death by like 5 people..

 

However when I see 2 people battling it out I usually ignore them, I personally can't stand it when I am engaged in a good saber fight, and I win it with only 2-10 health, and some loser just runs up behind me and hacks/shoots me in the back for an easy kill.. Yes I know its part of a FFA, its just stupid.. and will usually result in me chasing them around for the rest of the match using anything at my disposal guns, force, etc... to exact a penance, if you will.

 

Also, opponents that repeatedly run away from a fight, yes another tactic, to get health and shields, and run back (camping one spot), or hiding in a corner near a ledge to just push/grip someone into a cavern.. GOOD SHOW!! I commend you on your lack of vision, don't be surprised when I run back 2 seconds later with a rocket aimed at your head...Or if everytime you turn around there are 2-3 angry people on a server just plain tag teaming you for being 2 dimensional.

 

--------------------------

 

I have found that the BEST players do not sink to these tactics, and the saber duels or games that I have played against them are all memorable. I find myself changing saber stances, and force powers, at least 1-2 times during a match, it amazes me when I hop on servers and I see people just using heavy, slash slash button mash - noW RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!! - and THAT's it...

 

Didn't anyone read any reviews/manuals/guides/THIS SITE when it comes to info on the game? Any review will tell you there are different styles and moves, and to those that say Fast Style is useless I say - You're Wrong.. Maybe your only looking for a fast kill, but against someone using a heavy stance .. that's real good, sometimes fast is the best option... In any case I would just like to see more people taking the time to investigate this site, and information on the saber moves, and get INTO the game not just be into being an ass.

[UniKorn]

My only code is not to kill people that are chatting and people that are idle. The rest dies, no matter what they are doing. Don't join a weapons server if you only want to fight with your saber. And if you do join, don't start shouting at those who do, they are playing where they should, you are not.

[TheDarkSide]

things have gotten slightly out of hand on the forum.

 

What started out as a general rant against those who 'roleplay' or those who expected the game to be more Star Wars like and less Quake like was responded to with a battle cry of honor, which launched into a discussion of honor, which spawned codes of honor, in turn launching an code of anti-honor, etc etc

 

If you step back and look at the big picture, it's pretty laughable to see all this commotion over a GAME.

 

That being said, let me throw my 2 cents in here:

 

I don't subscribe to any code of honor, but act honorably. I don't attack people who obviously are 1) looking for a duel , 2) engaged in a duel, or 3) have their saber down.

As a light Jedi, I dont have access to grip/drain/lightning, but will push and pull on Nar Shaddaa streets. It's obvious the level was designed for it.

 

I think we're getting confused and signals crossed about who is being complained about and what not. It's fairly obvious to me that SpiderAl and D66 on Nar Shadaa Streets don't camp out in one small area of the map using the same tactic over and over. It's these type things that most ppl who "complain" are referring to. I try not to whine, but admittedly a whine will slip out every now and then.

 

The key is that for every tactic out there there is a counter tactic. Granted, I tend to agree that someone who racks up ALL their kills using push on NS streets is what I would call "cheap", but at the same time, Absorb negates his tactic, and Drain negates his tactic. When I find someone doing something I deem "cheap", I tend to try to learn them a lesson It's pretty gratifying. There is nothing yet in this game that is truly imbalanced to the point where it ruins the game. Everything from drain-whoring to heavy combo jumping to even *gasp* bunny...er I mean strafe jumping has a counter. Sometimes that counter is just having more skill than that guy. That doesn't mean it's imbalanced, it should force you to try to improve your own skills. (Heck, it's what our whole economy is based on)

 

As a final sidenote, I'd like to mention that for me at least my internal code of honor is checked at the door for CTF. I will play with respect, but if you have my flag in Bespin streets, I will use every tactic, weapon or force power in my disposal to get it back. Even if it means my death....the team comes way above the individual.

 

 

For a final final sidenote, many people may ask, why play a game with a certain code of honor anyways...just win baby is the name of the game for FPS DM! For me, I've played it that way, and my days of playing it that way are over. It's not that its too easy, but more that it's not enough of a challenge. Part of why I play games is for the challenge, and find more fun winning in a challenging way, then winning by the path of least resistance. Even the UT/quake FPS zealots (j/k!) must surely agree what was more satisfying to you, taking out a bunch of people with a redeemer inside the flag base on Facing Worlds, or chasing the flag runner halfway across the map, run-sniping his escorts down and then crouching down for the final shot that saves your flag?

 

TDS

[JaG|Kaiser]

Originally posted by Rogerwilco2002

I must apologize. I know I am long winded so I went back and separated it. I dont know if that helped any but I will try and cater to the needs of others as best I can. thank you for pointing that out.

 

At first I was going to flame you, but then I read your post. I think your post was dead on. Well done.

[Zahn]

Such a touchy subject. I think that if a common courtesy has been established, and is in use on a server, why not follow it? Private servers especially. But trying to enforce some code of conduct on a public server is just shy of futile.

 

The reason I say that is because there are always going to be d00dZ that hop in and try to ruin the game for the rest.

 

Personally, I will go along with the majority of the server, and give my fellow players the same respect that I am given. If the server is too immature or too many d00dZ, hey...there are more servers out there.

 

I'll tag my character with the -SC-. I enjoy saber only battles without fear of being gang-banged by sI+|-|/\/\@s+3r and his "clan" of goons.

 

Will the -SC- work? Who knows, but at least I'll know with some degree of certainty that if I see another with -SC- that It'll be a one on one, fair fight.

 

In all honesty though, I think that the only real way to enforce this kind of conduct is through private servers that are noted somehow that a Code of Conduct is in effect.

[Jiro Kage]

Trying to force someone to your code is wrong, correct. But humoring someone for their code is just a nice thing to do. And people that say there are no ethics in games are wrong - for instance, isn't it lame in DM to hit someone with a console or talk bubble over their head?

 

Just humor those people as long as it doesn't inconvenience you, that's all that people are asking.

[peeej]

Originally posted by TheDarkSide

Sometimes that counter is just having more skill than that guy.

 

Having more skill is not a counter. If one of the requirements for the balancing of this game is to just have more skill, then it's not balanced at all. To balance a game, you hafto assume that the people using the tactics are of exactly equal skill. You can't design a tactic and say "ok the counter for this is that the other guy has to be a better player".

 

In other words if one player gets killed repeatedly by another player of equal skill by using a certain tactic that can only be countered by skill, then that tactic is out of balance.

 

 

I think this is where all this honor controversey is coming from. The honorable-saber players think to themselves "well if I did THAT, then of course I would win. But I'm only using my saber." They want to be able to rely solely on their saber to counter all other tactics, but it doesn't work because that would put the saber out of balance.

 

So they make a saber-only guild to try to make their idea of a super-powerful movie-like sabre a reality. They give the saber more power by teaming up with other sabrists against a single gun user.

 

Personally I would love to have a saber that could counter all other tactics like in the movies, but it isn't there because the game has to be balanced to be fun. So since the game is balanced, the only way for me to win is to use the designed counter tactics, or to increase my skill far beyond the competition to the point where I need only my lightsaber.

[Taicat]

IMO, FFA implies anything goes. Choose your style, and play with it.

 

If that includes the things that -SC- are about, fine. If you don't agree with that, fine.

 

Sometimes I bow, sometimes I don't. I don't bash anyone for either approach, I just wanna play! LOL.

 

I play to unwind after a hard day's work. Getting caught up in how other people approach the game (outside of fighting tactics) is counter to that if I find myself being stressed by it. So I just play, and leave it at that...

[LInKINParkD00D]

yo where u get ur hax from?

[Bludshot]

I run around with my saber off most of the time. If the server is basically 1v1 duels, I'll abide by the "saber off=don't attack" rule. Otherwise, I assume that, like me, the other people have figured out that the saber is too damn visible and noisy. Feel free to frag me. I do not consider a Jedi with a retracted saber to be "unarmed".

 

A Jedi is never unarmed. If you are in an FFA server that is not labeled as a duel server, then do not go AFK, go spectator. Otherwise, expect to be killed. If you are in a CTF server, expect to be killed, period.

 

OK. That sounded cocky. How about... expect somebody to TRY to kill you.

 

I do not mind if you decide to hunt me specifically for an entire map. Usually that means constant fun. It's when everybody is standing around watching 1-2 duels that the excitement diminishes. I hate having to squat like a chimp looking for a grooming just to get someone to fight me.

 

Don't get me wrong. When I'm in the mood, I'll gladly take part in the whole ritual thing for forceless duels. There is a time and a place for everything.

[TheDarkSide]

Having more skill is not a counter. If one of the requirements for the balancing of this game is to just have more skill, then it's not balanced at all.

 

I guess I wasn't very clear in my first post...when I say more skill, I meant to imply that you need to have more skill than you currently possess, not necessarily more skill than the guy you're up against. What I was getting at was that the counters themselves may take more skill than you currently have at your disposal. You may still feel the same that if an easy tactic requires a high skill level to counteract, it's an imbalance. As long as that counter doesn't require a hack or cheat and is reasonably possible to obtain, to me it is not an imbalance. Also keep in mind, that the path you choose also affects what you can do. Let me revise my earlier statement. Between equally skilled players, there is no tactic in JK2 that doesn't have a counter. There is no uber move, swing, combo, force power that is purely unbeatable. NONE.

 

If you are getting beat constantly by the drain/grip and throwers, or the hvy kill jumpers, then at best you can say, with your force setup and selection, and server setup, combined with your personal playing skills is not balanced with the other guys force set up and selection and his playing skills.

 

Where JK2 gets more complicated balance wise is the selection of force powers, and the Jedi Master force pool that most servers are set to, not to mention gametype Best way to beat a Drain? Absorb and take care of business before it runs out. To do that, you will need some skills. That's for a light jedi. For dark siders, go after him with drain. If you're not below using a gun, that is probably the #1 best way to take care of a drainer.

 

To balance a game, you hafto assume that the people using the tactics are of exactly equal skill. You can't design a tactic and say "ok the counter for this is that the other guy has to be a better player".

 

Sure you can. How to beat a skilled heavy stance death blow jumper? Go to med stance and move out of the way give him he|| when he lands. If you're light its more difficult, if you're dark, do what ever you want, lightning combined with some swats of the saber. It's not the easiest thing in the world. The way that move is coded, with the faulty collision detection, ability to spin on the ground and do damage while ur saber is stuck in the ground, it definitely takes some skill. But it is a counter. And that's just one of the possible counters. Don't forget if you're on a map with a ledge or a long fall, those heavy jumpers are EXTREMELY vulnerable to push

 

In other words if one player gets killed repeatedly by another player of equal skill by using a certain tactic that can only be countered by skill, then that tactic is out of balance.

 

I think there are way too many variables in the balance equation for JK2 to say this definitively. Sure you have equal skills, but what about a force setup? Force powers are designed to counter other powers, but you can only have so many of them. If you have absorb at your disposal, and you don't allocate any force points to it because say you wanted to max out mindtrick or team heal, can you say that any other force power is imbalanced? My original point still stands...every tactic in JK2 has a counter. It's more a matter I think of some people (myself included at times) wanting THEIR setup to be able to counter everything, and the game isn't set up like that.

 

TDS