Tone down absorb!!!

[Indreju]

Absorb, of course, does not prevent someone from using force powers. Just force powers on YOU.

 

And currently the gun is part of me, just like any good marksmen will tell you it has to be if I want to hit anything. An extension of my body. Cheeky answer aside, think about it just a wee bit, what happens when you attempt to Pull someone without Absorb and they block your Pull with their own? Do you get the gun? No you don't. Showing that Pull is an all or nothing event, and in the case of Absorb, it's now nothing (or close to it).

 

Also, I didn't mention anything about absorb stopping dark side powers, I merely thought that pull (a NEUTRAL POWER) should pull a gun. How does that relate to the dark side in any way?

 

"Never for attack." - Yoda

 

Anytime you're going to damage someone, it's an attack, and it's the action rather than the power that is evil or not. But that's semantics of a religion the Jedi themselves break a few thousand times in just the movies. What it really involves is you talking about "toning down" a power that is key for the Light side to win in many battles. It's the only way to live on the Nar Shadda maps, and even then Drain negates it. So to even suggest that it should be changed means you're going to find a number of Jedi protecting their trump card.

 

How is my post "self righteous"? And how did Kuroshi say what I wanted to hear? I thought his post was intelligent.

 

His post is intelligent, it's your post that I'm complaining about. And my statement of "intelligence != what you want to hear" is to point out just how self-righteous you are in the post. You've made up your mind that this must change, and are convinced that everyone who doesn't understand the point is in error. Idiots that don't need to be even considered. Often the amount of sarcasm you recieve in your replies should tell you just how far off base you are to begin with.

 

And how is it balanced in any way when an idiot is able to spam alt fire into crowds with reckless abandon and the only counter is to shoot back or run away?

 

bind mouse4 "force_throw"

 

Absorb won't help him when the Repeater alt fire comes crashing in on his head. Style, adaptability, and awareness. The keys to success in FPS games.

 

EDIT: Typo

[Falryx]

I think the key problem you've run into is assuming that every Force power has to have a Force counter. I play Light exclusively, and I'm not sure why -- perhaps I want to learn how to get it down properly before I swap to Dark Side powers.

 

Anyway, I use absorb a lot, and it's used against me a lot, and I disagree strenuously that it's overpowerful. If someone is sitting with absorb alt-firing into a crowd, get out of the crowd and out think the bastard with different weapon fire or leave him alone 'til he's outta Force power then kick his ass with your saber.

 

Absorb isn't forever unless you're surrounded by a bunch of punks who don't know what it does and keep recharging the guy. Absorb also doesn't stop damage from weapons.

 

It's easy to assume this game isn't balanced -- but I've not found a single situation where I can't figure out how to counter what's been presented to me.

[Fnord17]

Gonna have to agree with the Falryx, and Indreju. If someone is kicking your ass with a tactic, don't keep using the same one, and then complain when it still doesn't work. Force push will counter most of the weapon fire. Force speed and/or dark rage will give you more ability to close and chop him down. *Gasp* or shoot him with any of the weapons as he isn't using a lightsaber thus can't block nonexplosives, and one or two force pushes will drain his force pool completely.

[Monnnster]

Have any of you actually played a game where you successfully countered alt-fire consistently with push? Tell you what, I'll challenge any of you to go into a map with me, I'll alt fire at you and you push my alt fire back, and we'll see who wins. See, alt-fire fires faster than push does, consumes no force (ammo lasts longer than force) and is much more accurate. How can any of you possibly say that this is an effective counter? Especially since he can blow your ass away up close with little fear of being hurt himself.

 

So once again, we have either shoot him back, or run away. However, since usually he would just run around a corner and start firing at anything that moves, generally you are going to be injured first, thus more likely to die first, possibly before you can even switch to a gun and get a shot off.

 

The main problem with guns in this game is that they are poorly balanced. In UT, if some idiot is firing alt-fire flak at you point blank, you'll both die. In JK2, only you will probably die. Guns take less skill in this game than most FPS's. This is countered by lightsabers and force. However, when someone takes away the force countering, it becomes unbalanced again.

 

You've made up your mind that this must change, and are convinced that everyone who doesn't understand the point is in error.

 

It's a very simple point. If you can't understand it, then please don't bother replying.

 

Absorb won't help him when the Repeater alt fire comes crashing in on his head. Style, adaptability, and awareness.

 

Ah yes. You like to speak as if you are very skilled at this game. Perhaps a challenge is in order, since you think you are better than me? In fact, let's do this: I'll use absorb and big guns. You use force push. Up to it?

[Indreju]

It's a very simple point. If you can't understand it, then please don't bother replying.

 

Thus the self-righteous comment.

 

Note that I'm not saying that Force Push is the only counter, simply that it is a counter, a simple example of why Absorb is not over powering. As for using this tactic in the game? I've done it often, and usually with mixed results. Against someone using the Repeater's alt fire, it usually takes about three going back on their own head before they decide to switch tactics or die.

 

As for a challenge, be my guest. I play on the same server nearly every day, and all you need do is come find me. You use your Absorb and a big gun, and I'll beat you however I see fit. Which is you're real problem, you seem to think that there needs to be a way to defeat this guy with a Force power, and until you get that mental set out of your head, you're going to loose.

 

I suggest if you dislike guns so much, make a filter for Saber only.

 

(server info available at http://sneakybuffalo.clanservers.net -- anyone want to take bets on if he ever shows up?)

[[del] Twitch]

Actually, yes, I have successfully countered alt-fire with a push.

 

It's called getting cover. IF YOU JUST STAND THERE, YOU DESERVE TO BE DEAD. Like in every FPS. If you push their shot back at them, then take cover, most of the time they'll come see what's up, and that's when you either counterattack or push their next shots back at them.

 

Or you wait for them to come around the corner and Pull their gun. Speaking about guns, I'd have to say that perfectly balanced, if you just have the skill to go around killing with it. You know, pointing the crosshairs at in-game models and pushing the mouse buttons...

 

"Oh no! What about repeater alt attack and Flechette alt attack?"

 

Of course they are powerful. However, they aren't without counters, if you just know how. Personally I push their shots back, then take cover, then push their shots or pull their gun. If they put on absorb, I still push their shots back, grab a gun of my own, and slaughter them as they come helplessly around the corner.

 

Everything has a reasonable counter. I could go on for days about how I absolutely HATE drain users, but I don't, do I?

 

And I'm sure you'll just ignore this comment or try to take the high road and sound infinitely smarter than the rest of us. Give it a break. Go practice more.

 

 

- Twitch

[Monnnster]

I know how to counter all this. You don't seem to understand that this guy wasn't owning ME, he was owning a SERVER. He was able to take out most people because most people weren't able to counter his little trick. He wasn't using skills. He was using a trick. Just like everyone complains about DFA, only DFA takes even more skill. If he was owning the server with just guns, I wouldn't even care.

 

And kindly stop referring to my skill. You have no clue how well I play, but you'll find out when I show up on your server.

[Con. Snake]

Just when I think people can't get any dumber, Their idiot scientists invent a new level of stupid.

[Monnnster]

Ummm...ok?

[Fyunch Click]

Monnnster,

 

You do realize that you have taken a very agressive stance towards people who have posted in this thread? Even calling them names? It's not surprising me that you are getting these sorts of responses now. You've been acting as if you are the only one entitled to an opinion and even when you said someone else had a good post you said they were wrong. How is this conducive to discussion?

 

You've had your chance to complain and vent. Why don't you drop it? or are you just boosting your post count?

[Con. Snake]

Originally posted by Monnnster

Ummm...ok?

 

See, that's my point. Instead of reading what people have to say, and instead of being showed you are WRONG, You simply ignore it, make a joke about it, or post stupid pictures - All the attrubutes, and actions of a weak mind. Sir(and I use this term losely when reguarding you with it) it is the members of our species such as yourself that will lead us to extinction. Your road to intelligence will be paved once you stop breeding with your sister and/or mother. And that arrow show be pointing to the left.

[Indreju]

I've yet to run across a player that truly owned an entire server that wasn't just that much better than everyone else. I've also played on a few public servers, or seen players play on mine, that constantly make statements about how lame guns are. If you (and in this case, to be perfectly clear, you is directed at anyone who doesn't like guns) should either play on a Saber only server or accept the fact that you are handicapping yourself against those that will use guns.

 

There are times when someone has discovered a tactic, that others will call a trick, that just works well enough to continue until someone defeats you.

 

Again, I'm going to say that Absorb is just fine the way it is, and Pull is working just the way it should in my book. I haven't run into this problem yet, and I even used it for a while last night with only marginal success.

[linxmexx]

Right then... whats this? Unable to force pull guns off ppl using absorb? I'm afraid so.

But wait, the whole point of using absorb when combined with guns is to protect u from force attacks. If u r the one attacking then u have a defence... it's called a SABER!

I don't thinks absorb needs toning down at all. And if they use the ba**ard heavy repeater alt_fire then just run along till they run out of FP (force power). Then get in there and "smash" him back!!! *sigh*

[[del] Twitch]

I'll talk about anybody's skill if I deem it necessary. You're complaining about something that is not only balanced but has ways around it. If they are absorbing, attack them with guns! It's as simple as that. If they try pushing back any of your alt-fire, then that just makes they FP go all the more down. Just either use the skill you have now and do this, go to a saber-only server, or go grab some skill, and own them. Coming in here won't solve the problem, but owning them will.

 

- Twitch

[Monnnster]

First of all, I only started being sarcastic when other people started being sarcastic toward me. I posted a perfectly legitimate message, a couple people replied with comments that were somewhat off-topic, nothing to do with my post:

 

Also Force Absorb is the light sides major defense against 80% of the crap that the Dark Side has, specifically Grip.

 

and:

 

What in the world are you suggesting? For a light-sider, absorb is my only hope against Grip Monkeys and Force Drainers.

 

Why were these off-topic? Because I never mentioned anything about absorb in relation with dark side powers. I mentioned pull only. Then Indreju posts this:

 

Seriously though, it's because the force pull isn't working at all that you don't get the gun.

 

C'mon, we all know that isn't true. If there was a guy with absorb standing next to a guy without absorb, the guy without would still get pulled/shocked/drained. The real reason the gun isn't pulled is because:

 

The only valid response is that the game designers intended it that way.

 

But of course, I already knew that. I had no problem with this guy's post, only disagreed that nothing in the game can possibly change without a mod.

 

Instead of getting some constructive posts (there were a few, admittedly) I get a bunch of assholes posting sarcastic comments about my skill. My sarcastic responses were to sarcastic responses, except in a response to spidey's post, I admit that one was outta line. I was pissed at the time.

 

Then we get the great genius "Con. Snake" who posts nothing but rancor and spite everywhere on the boards. Really, you have some issues you need to work out. It's not my fault you were abused/bullied/rectal rooted by your parents/uncles/prisonmates. Nor is it the fault of anyone on this board, so you might want to lay off/start taking drugs.

 

You've been acting as if you are the only one entitled to an opinion and even when you said someone else had a good post you said they were wrong

 

The only time the word wrong was used in this thread, other than in this quote, was when "Con. Snake" told me I was wrong. I'm being attacked by people who strongly disagree with my post. Yet, somehow you all think I'm the one who thinks everyone else is wrong. Hmm.

 

. I've also played on a few public servers, or seen players play on mine, that constantly make statements about how lame guns are.

 

I never said guns are lame. I use guns myself.

 

You've had your chance to complain and vent. Why don't you drop it? or are you just boosting your post count?

 

I'm replying to messages directed at me.

[Fyunch Click]

Originally posted by Monnnster

 

This guy won games only because his gun couldn't get pulled. Anytime he didn't have a gun or didn't have absorb, he was owned! So tell me how you "back off" from a gunner. Guns shoot far. This is a simple physics lesson, free of charge.

 

Here's your example of being "polite"? This is BTW the second response you posted.

It was taken by myself and apparently most people who read the thread as extremely sarcastic. Perhaps you did not intend it to be so, but that's what it looks like: you being a d*ck.

 

I will not speak for anyone else on the boards but what you call defending yourself looks an awful lot like attacking other people.

But that's just my opinion on the matter and it shouldn't matter to you now should it? Because after all, I must be wrong, mustn't I since I obviously cannot understand what you intended when you typed it on an Internet message board. (/underlying hints of sarcasm throughout the last paragraph)

[Con. Snake]

I think we should euthanize this latest generation and start fresh.

[Monnnster]

From my previous post, which you apparently didn't read...

 

My sarcastic responses were to sarcastic responses, except in a response to spidey's post, I admit that one was outta line. I was pissed at the time.

 

Plus, not sure why you put "polite" in quotes, as I never said I was polite.

 

And to Con. Sarnit: which generation do you belong to? The "current generation" is not mine...

[Con. Snake]

Moonnstar - That's funny, anyone judging from you lack of intelligence and refusal to accept facts and/or defeat, one would assume you were 8-11 years old.

[Fyunch Click]

My first response was to come back and to flame back.

I won't. I apologize for my earlier remarks that were more sarcastic than they should have been for the situation. It is after all only an Internet message board after all.

 

What I should have posted originally was this:

 

If you want to have an intelligent discussion about the subject then how about you make the first move and not flame folks that respond. Yes, you are going to get some folks who will flame no matter what. Try and ignore them and deal with the folks who try to have a decent discussion on the subject without all the other crap. I know mood has a lot to do with what you type. Maybe we should all just take a step back sometimes, you know?

[Indreju]

You sir are doing a great job of taking pieces of posts and removing contextual meaning to fit your needs. The phrase "it's because the force pull isn't working at all that you don't get the gun" is completely true when taken with the contextual thought of it not working against you the gun holder. That however would be to hard to understand.

 

The sarcasm is in direct response to a post that it would seem the majority feel is asinine in nature, and generally not something that needs to be done. And when you top it off with statements like:

It's a very simple point. If you can't understand it, then please don't bother replying.

Well it's easy to see why people would love for you to visit this site.

[Monnnster]

Con. Snake:

 

First of all, every post I've read of yours is just a stream of negativity that obviously stems from self-esteem issues. The reason my first reply to your first post was a picture of "I'm with stupid" is because it was so inane/insane it didn't deserve a real response. As a matter of fact, none of your posts do!

 

Also, I called you "Con. Sarnit" because that's something a crotchety old man would say...which is what you sound like. I'm sure you think that's just a load of horsefeathers though.

 

That's funny, anyone judging from you lack of intelligence and refusal to accept facts and/or defeat, one would assume you were 8-11 years old.

 

Anyone judging from "me" lack of intelligence? If you think you can judge my intelligence from a post griping about a force power, time to get a second opinion about your own. And, uh, what "facts" or "defeat" are you referring to? How was I "defeated"? I stated an opinion, then others stated their's. Pretty much everything stated was fact...you really can't pull guns from someone with absorb! Are there any facts you can state that prove my opinion wrong of how absorb should work? Do you understand the basics of debate?

 

And while we're assuming, the only 8-11 year olds you have access to (for comparison) are probably locked in your basement.

 

And the only kind of people who would "lead us to extinction" are total assholes like yourself. Although that isn't likely, since you probably only have a set when you're anonymous on a message board.

[Monnnster]

I didn't take anything out of context. Plus, how do you take something out of context on the same page something is written? Wow, I sure am sneaky!

[Indreju]

Originally posted by Monnnster

I didn't take anything out of context. Plus, how do you take something out of context on the same page something is written? Wow, I sure am sneaky!

 

Sure you did. We're talking about guns, absorb and pull. I say it stops the pull from working, and you're response for why it doesn't is because the person next to you is still pulled? Where and how is that in context with my absorb protected gun.

 

Personally I was thinking of a different adjective that started with S to describe you, but if you want to use sneaky be my guest.

[Flash25]

I'll have a crack at this. In a lot of fantasy games and literature, a personal power often extends to the things that you are immediately holding and have on your person.

 

The comic superhero The Flash has a personal heat shield that protects him from the heat caused by the friction with air that result from running at high speeds. If he picks something up, like a person, that shield is extended over whatever he is carrying.

 

Another example is the spell invisibility from D&D. everything the character is holding at the time of casting is rendered invisible. It is not illogical, in a fantasy context, for the power of absorb to extend over the items that the player is carrying.

 

 

As far as one player owning servers because of absorb and a gun, I don't think that this was the case. On most of the FFA servers I have been on, the guy with the gun owns the server. This is mainly due to the fact that the vast majority of players on FFA servers run around with a lightsaber, looking for other running around with lightsabers, and trying to hack them to pieces or push them off a ledge. These players make wonderful targets for the gun toting folk. The lightsaber wielders tend to ignore the gun people and search their next duel opponent. The gun wielders just rack up the kills. Monnnster himself said that he was able to counter the absorb/gun combo. This leads me to believe that the others were victim of ignorance or a lack of experience. Since there are ways around this combo, there is no need to alter any aspects of it.