Leagle Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 Originally posted by Jalas Dooku is not a Sith, he was a Jedi, and became a dark jedi. I am fed up with you. Yes Dooku is a Fallen Jedi... but: He is otherwise known as Darth Tyranus, (so I'm told) the 2nd sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissamies Posted April 28, 2002 Share Posted April 28, 2002 It all depends on wether the rule of 2 applies after the jedi are wiped out or not and THAT depends of the original reason for the rule. If it was just for secrecy, there would be no need to maintain it after the jedi were destroyed. If, however, there was some other reason for the rule, such as avoiding power struggles, there would be reason to have the rule around even afterwards. And once more, this all is speculation. People who present their opinions as facts annoy me, especially if there is that "if you disagree, you are stupid" undertone. Grrr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 I watched an interview with GL and he said that anakin himself did infact bring balance to the force, because it was he , not luke who threw the emperor down the shaft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 Jalas, I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but Sidiouse was the emporer in TPM, god, does it take that much common sense to figure that out? Did you also know that padme and princess amidala are the same person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster169 Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 what the hell is everyone talking about! just because i talk like liam neeson means that i am him. thats what vestril is saying. darth sidious and the emperor are DIFFERENT guys. here, let me make it easy: D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T spells DIFFERENT sure, they may have been played by the same actor, but they still are different people. props to jalas. now for the sith thing. yes, homeboy jalas has it right. sith and dark jedi also are different but not very much different. the sith were a people that dark jedi enslaved. these few became known as dark lords of the sith, becaused the sith revered them. and because of their dark powers, the dark was thrown in. then when the sith war broke out, all dark side force users were targeted. therefore a system had to be instilled. this is where you get the two at a time thing. there, i think that about clears it up. and one more thing- Darth Sidious IS NOT the Emperor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 what the hell is everyone talking about! just because i talk like liam neeson means that i am him. thats what vestril is saying. darth sidious and the emperor are DIFFERENT guys. here, let me make it easy: D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T spells DIFFERENT sure, they may have been played by the same actor, but they still are different people. props to jalas. So...George Lucas just had the same actor play Sidious and Palpatine to cut costs?... This being the same actor who played the Emperor? Now everything is clear, I apologize for being so dense. --Edit-- HAHAHAHA I was just picking my Avatar and there are two Emperor Avatars Emp_1 and Emp_2 One is Sidious from Ep I and the other is The Emperor from RotJ. Apparently popular support is on my side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedimaster169 Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 i must apologize, i don't spend my life in front of my computer. what are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 i must apologize, i don't spend my life in front of my computer. what are you talking about? I thought it was all rather self explanatory...I don't see what sitting behind a computer has to do with any of it:confused: --Edit-- Ok I'm an idiot, you meant the Avatar. If you look beside my name there is a little picture, thats an Avatar (you can pick one in the options section) and two of the pictors you could pick were of the Emperor, they were labeled Emp_1 and Emp_2, and Emp_1 is a picture of Darth Sidious...does that make sense? If not, does anyone else know a good way of explaining it? I can be...whats the word...stupid when I explain things lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raynaga Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 Originally posted by jedimaster169 what the hell is everyone talking about! just because i talk like liam neeson means that i am him. thats what vestril is saying. darth sidious and the emperor are DIFFERENT guys. here, let me make it easy: D-I-F-F-E-R-E-N-T spells DIFFERENT sure, they may have been played by the same actor, but they still are different people. props to jalas. now for the sith thing. yes, homeboy jalas has it right. sith and dark jedi also are different but not very much different. the sith were a people that dark jedi enslaved. these few became known as dark lords of the sith, becaused the sith revered them. and because of their dark powers, the dark was thrown in. then when the sith war broke out, all dark side force users were targeted. therefore a system had to be instilled. this is where you get the two at a time thing. there, i think that about clears it up. and one more thing- Darth Sidious IS NOT the Emperor It is blindingly obvious that they are the same person. You are either dumb as a post, or you have not seen the film --R-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 It is blindingly obvious that they are the same person. You are either dumb as a post, or you have not seen the film I almost said that...but then I thought--what if that's the obvious thing that Lucas is going to trick us with. Like after ANH Lukes dad was this cool guy who was a hero and whatnot, after ESB there was a really good chance he was one of the crappiest people in the galaxy, d'oh. I obviously agree that there is a HIGH probabilty that thats true but I'd feel like a real loser if I was horribly wrong about that...lol Anyway, I don't mean to insult you or anything, I just...why the heck DID I feel the need to talk about that??? Uh oh...I might be a forum junkie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupO'Coffee Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 to me, it sounds perfectly reasonable that sidious and palpatine are the same persons, since that would make sense to me. what i'm talking about is that palpatine/sidious ist trying to destroy the republic from within. imagine: he lays siege on one of his planets (palpatine is, apart from other planets, the representative of naboo), with the intention to persuade amidala to move a vote of no-confidence in the chancellors leadership, that way giving him the opportunity to become the new chancellor, which allows him to take controll of the senate in ep 2 i think (very much like in the fire in the german "reichstag" anno 1933) btw, never noticed that the camera focuses on palpatine after the yoda/mace windu talk about the sith? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyJedi Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 There is speculation that Senator Palpatine and Darth Sidious may be the clone of the other. Maybe such a twist would be welcome. I am under the impression that they are one and the same person, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leagle Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 Originally posted by jedimaster169 sith and dark jedi also are different but not very much different. the sith were a people that dark jedi enslaved. these few became known as dark lords of the sith, becaused the sith revered them. Dark Jedi means what it says. Jedi gone bad. Sith we are discussing is the Sith order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishberg5051 Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 See...the Sith Catacombs, they really had trolls and gnomes building these catacombs, while they were training elsewhere. Also the emperor looks really old and looks like he has troubles walking ...he needs a cane...so how could he train Darth Maul and Vader to make them fast and agile? Who do they train on? I know...must be the gnomes! Also why didn't vader just let Luke strike down the emperor in "ROTJ"....If vader was just gonna throw him overboard anyway, why waste the energy and just let luke slice him? One more note. In Empire strikes back, luke makes a move and is able to hit vader with hit lightsaber...all it did was kinda hurt him (like pinched him or something) whereas vader slices his hand off and in the first episode Gui Gon (sp) puts a lightsaber through 5 feet of steel...so vader's armor is stronger than steel? I don't get it. ok I'm done wasting your time..just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 Also the emperor looks really old and looks like he has troubles walking ...he needs a cane...so how could he train Darth Maul and Vader to make them fast and agile? Vader was fast and agile? Which movies were you watching? and Palpatine seemed a tad more spry in Episode I Also why didn't vader just let Luke strike down the emperor in "ROTJ"....If vader was just gonna throw him overboard anyway, why waste the energy and just let luke slice him? The Emperor will now answer your question 'Only together can we turn him...' One more note. In Empire strikes back, luke makes a move and is able to hit vader with hit lightsaber...all it did was kinda hurt him (like pinched him or something) whereas vader slices his hand off and in the first episode Gui Gon (sp) puts a lightsaber through 5 feet of steel...so vader's armor is stronger than steel? Well it is almost 40 years later but thats beside the point, I doubt tech advances that fast in the SW universe. The real issue at hand is force (as in pressure applied, not THE Force ), Luke only taps Vader on the sholder (which makes sense because as long as his lightsaber is in Vaders arm he's vulnerable to a quick strike) whereas Qui-Gon pushes his lightsaber into the door. Hope that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooNBB Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 I don't care what that backwards talking green freak Yoda said... And Just because some Darth bane decided it was convinient to ONLY have 2... Who cares? It is not like there is some Dark Side limitation that only 2 Jedi can share and still be a sith. All that is just silly. And wait till we get to EP3: Supposedly the end scene features some 5-6 Dark Lords of the Sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardenthak Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 Hello, just wondering (and I hope this isn't too off topic), if the Sith were a people the dark jedis enslaved, how come the two most famous sithlords, Darth Vader and the Emperor are humans (at least apparently)? Was Sidious/the emperor raised by some kind of being belonging to sith race? Is Anakin's special mediclorian concentration a genetic trait of the Sith? If the Sith are a secret organisation, why are all their temples in ruins or being defiled(so to speak) by the rebellion? Also, how can they infiltrate senate and Coruscant in general? I doubt any senator would open his door if a sith or a dark jedi came knocking or that a sith could get elected or nominated to a position in or near the Senate. I'm sure the jedi counsel would feel a nice big "disturbance in the force" if that happened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissamies Posted April 29, 2002 Share Posted April 29, 2002 Very, very long time ago before the events in the films, in the early years of space travel, there was a schism in the jedi order. Dark side practitioners eventually lost and were driven into exile beyond known space. In their exile, the Dark Jedi found the primitive Sith people who welcomed them as gods. In time, the Dark Jedi interbred with Sith and their descendants became the first dark lords of Sith. Long time after that, about 5000 years before the events in the movies, the Rebuplic made contact with the Sith empire and sparket the Great Hyperspace War. The Sith empire eventually lost that war and was wiped out, but the leader Naga Sadow, the Dark Lord of the Sith managed to escape to Yavin 4 with few faithful Sith followers. Sadow placed himself to suspented animation, and the remaining Sith degenerated into Massassi (or maybe Sadow used alchemy to transform them, im not so sure about that part) About six centuries after that, a Jedi Knight name Freedon Nadd found his way to Yavin 4. He woke up the spirit of Naga Sadow and asked the Dark Lord to teach him the sith sorcery. So the Sith was originally a race, but later on became a cult when the race died out. The title "Dark Lord of the Sith" probably just stuck. So it was a cult, not race at the timeframe of the movies. And the Sith race by itself was never especially strong in the force, I think. Just the Dark Jedi descendants. This all is Expanded Universe of comic book variety dreamed up by Kevin J. Anderson, so its very necessary to take it with large grain of salt. It is an official EU storyline, however, so it is the "truth" unless canon contradicts it in the future or if you want to ignore everything but canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quvmoh Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 As for Vader bringing balance to the Force, the question must be asked as to what that balance was. Remember, as a Sith, Vader whipped out the Jedi save two: Yoda and Obi Wan. A master and a Knight. On the side of Evil, there were two: The Emperor and Darth Vader. A master and a knight. So, with that, there was balance. Also include Luke and Leah, and you have two potential aprentices. So, in that regard, Anakin did bring balance to the Force. Then, after Vader killed the Emperor, perfect balance attained due to the Sith master being destroyed. After vader died, there remained a sole knight: Luke, and a sole aprentice: Leah. Thus fulfilling Yoda's statement in Episode 1 about only being two: A master and an Aprentice. Quvmoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 As for Vader bringing balance to the Force, the question must be asked as to what that balance was. Remember, as a Sith, Vader whipped out the Jedi save two: Yoda and Obi Wan. A master and a Knight. On the side of Evil, there were two: The Emperor and Darth Vader. A master and a knight. So, with that, there was balance. Actually inbalance in the Force is Darth Vader and The Emperor existing at all. One of the Jedi's main concerns is maintaining balance in the Force. With the emergence of Sidious (I hesitate to call him Palpatine, no matter how obviuous it seems) the Force became imbalanced. It was Balanced when the Emperor was destroyed. It isn't about equal Light and Dark Force users, though that logic isn't bad. After vader died, there remained a sole knight: Luke, and a sole aprentice: Leah. Thus fulfilling Yoda's statement in Episode 1 about only being two: A master and an Aprentice. Interesting Concept but then why didn't Yoda go on a killing spree until it was just him and whoever he thought should be his apprentice? When he made the comment about only being two it was only in regards to the Sith. I'm fairly certain that this is the gist of how it works, though I may have some details wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quvmoh Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 Yoda's comments about only being two also applied to the Jedi as well as the Sith, in a way at least. Remember Yoda's comments to Qui Gonn when he requested to take Anakin as his aprentice? "An aprentice you have already. Impossible to take on a second." With that, the Jedi were restricted as well in only having One master paired with one Aprentice. Also, why didn't Yoda just go on a killing spree? Then he wouldn't have been Jedi, but Sith. His actions would've been that of the Dark side. "A Jedi uses his power for Knowledge and Defence, never for attack." So, the only thing that remains is that Yoda had to wait until prophecy was fulfilled, thus leaving Luke and Leah as the future of the Jedi. Quvmoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 Yoda's comments about only being two also applied to the Jedi as well as the Sith, in a way at least. Remember Yoda's comments to Qui Gonn when he requested to take Anakin as his aprentice? "An aprentice you have already. Impossible to take on a second." With that, the Jedi were restricted as well in only having One master paired with one Aprentice. Also, why didn't Yoda just go on a killing spree? Then he wouldn't have been Jedi, but Sith. His actions would've been that of the Dark side. "A Jedi uses his power for Knowledge and Defence, never for attack." So, the only thing that remains is that Yoda had to wait until prophecy was fulfilled, thus leaving Luke and Leah as the future of the Jedi. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you...because it seems as if you are saying that there should only be Two Jedi at a time. That is wrong (amd I don't mean to be rude so I'm sorry if I come across that way:( ). Besides maintaining the balance of the Force the Jedi are also charged with safekeeping the peace, and two Jedi could not do that in such a large galaxy. I imagine that Yoda intended Luke to train Leia and for them to rebuild the Jedi Order... If I am misunderstanding you then I don't see how it ties in to the balance of the Force:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chanke4252 Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 Well, in one of the KotOR previews I read about a Sith planet or something that you would be able to travel to, not like its an official source or anything. Plus it makes sense that if there was a jedi war or whatever of any kind, that there would be more than 2 guys fighting an army of Jedi. I would guess this just means like a Jedi and his padawan learner guy (apprentice). Plus who cares. I doubt GL really intended for people to think about it as much as some of you losers do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 Plus who cares. I doubt GL really intended for people to think about it as much as some of you losers do. What does it hurt you if we care? So we enjoy it, so we want to immerse ourselves in it, even argue about it...its better than arguing about something important, like religion or politics. At least if I say the Sith should be one way and someone else says they should be another we don't end up going to war and killing each other. IMO if everyone argued about less serious things less people would get hurt. Just because we enjoy something doesn't make us losers. Well, in one of the KotOR previews I read about a Sith planet or something that you would be able to travel to, not like its an official source or anything. Plus it makes sense that if there was a jedi war or whatever of any kind, that there would be more than 2 guys fighting an army of Jedi. I believe that KotOR takes place around the Sith War, which is what caused the Sith to take up the Two at a time thingy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quvmoh Posted April 30, 2002 Share Posted April 30, 2002 I'm not saying that there can only be two jedi period. I'm saying that Yoda's comments about there only being a master and an aprentice also applied to the Jedi as well, but in a different context. Qui Gonn was denied the authority to take on a second padawan. He, one master, could only have one aprentice. Hence, Yoda's comment being applied to the Jedi. Now, yes there were numerous masters and knights, but they each could only have one padawan. Quvmoh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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