Why Quake based games suck

[Unhappy Fox]

Ok so heres the deal...

 

2 Quakers playing some form of quake game are battling with their guns....they both run into the room. they both turn towards the enemy and fire. no aiming is necessary, no strategy, no thinking. the one with the biggest gun wins. everytime

 

 

ok thats my gripe...now to specifics of why its like this.

 

Quake based games lack maneuvreablity. run forwards, turn left, run, turn right, hop a little, turn left.....makes me feel like i'm back to playing Pacman again.....only pacman has a gun....that doesnt need to be aimed.

 

what the designers of the quake engines and games need to learn is called "Flow"....when you're running in RL to avoid getting hit by some madman shooting at you do you make 90 degree turns around corners? or do you try to dodge (other than hopping)....the reason why JK was so cool was that there was complete freedom of manuevreabliity. you could turn and shoot without breaking step, or dodge around corners....hey even jump out of the way...wow neat concept. The ppl that were good at the game got so because they mastered moment. it wasnt about who had the biggest gun and who didnt. it wasnt about who could click the button fastest. It was about being able to get good at playing the opponent. knowing where he would go. knowing what would happen if you did this....and he did that. fire there jump here, dodge around this corner tight.....playing quake is almost like playing Mechwarrior where you have this million ton machines that cant make a 90 degree turn for the life of them....i wanna dodge the damned bullet not see if my armor can take it.

 

I'm so fed up with the designers of Quake....

[mInk3nine]

Quake based games lack maneuvreablity. run forwards, turn left, run, turn right, hop a little, turn left.....makes me feel like i'm back to playing Pacman again.....only pacman has a gun....that doesnt need to be aimed.

 

HAHAHAHAHA. oh man. that is the silliest thing i have ever heard. Quake is alot more than "the guy with the bigger gun wins" or "run forwards, turn left, run, turn right". You make it sound like you are still playing with only the keyboard.

[NewBJedi]

Uh, as JK2 shows, you can jump, roll, walk across walls, kick people, flip-around, use various forces, etc.

 

It's not the "Quake engine" games, it's up to the designers.

 

How many other current engine's games have forces and lightsabers?

 

Also, when did this become a Quake forum?

[NewBJedi]

Originally posted by mInk3nine

 

HAHAHAHAHA. oh man. that is the silliest thing i have ever heard. Quake is alot more than "the guy with the bigger gun wins" or "run forwards, turn left, run, turn right". You make it sound like you are still playing with only the keyboard.

 

I know, I'm confused about the whole post.

 

A person can mouse look and strafe, and jump even in Quake.

[Unhappy Fox]

all that i'm saying is that JediOutcast is not a worthy sequel to JK.

 

This game plays more like Quake 4: Star Wars Edition.

 

Sure the rolls and wall jumping and forces are nice effects. no qualms with that....which are all thanks to Lucas himself.

 

but the integration of the player into the gaming environment and the movement needs work.

 

No i dont "still use just keyboard" lol thats rediculous. mouse/keyboard all the way....i even experimented with a mouse/joystick combo but it was too tricky cuz my joystick kept sliding around from the amt of movement i needed to do.

 

If you play enough online games like i do (different games btw), you'll notice that there is a big difference between the games in reference to maneuvreablility. 2 of my favorite games were JK and UT. I also played Q2 and Q3. With JK, movement was so integreated into the engine you almost felt an out of body experience with your connection to the game. While the movement in UT was blockier than JK it still wasnt as bad as quake. The quake based games dont have the necessary integration of movement. The moment is blocky....not smooth. Its stop and go. stop and go. turn, stop and go. Heres something for you. try running in a circle in quake. a good circle with curves, i know thats beyond your primitive minds but give it a try. no not a square with 90 degree turns....jeez feels like i'm workin with 3 year olds.

 

The game design is just quake3 with a little bit of modification....hell the community could have made a TC out of q3 that did the same thing....without making us all pay for it (legally anyways). I doled out the $50 cuz judging from the names and what the designers were saying it was to be the sequel to JK...but apparently the only thing they borrowed from JK was a couple of forces, the lightsaber and the story. They didnt bother taking a look at how well you could move in the game....what did that matter? sigh...i guess i expect to much of the quake engine. oh well back to playing JK. Sure its old but at least you can move reasonably well.

[Cmdr. Antilles]

Well, my feeble mind thinks you're an idiot, but what do I know?

 

That's just insane! The Q3 engine is so fluid... Either way, all FPS use the same control set for movement, and they all move the same.

 

He's just upset that his favorite game (JK) is old and dead. Too bad.

[NewBJedi]

Quake engine games = dedicated servers.

 

That is worth the price alone.

 

Also, you owe a lot of the gameplay abilities to Raven - see ST:EF.

 

Lucas is just the publisher who provided nifty sounds and licenses.

 

I find the movement perfect, and I've probably been playing games as much as you have. Tribes anyone? Quakeworld? Doom 2 over the modem, Duke Nuke Em 3D, ROTT (have you heard of that one - and don't search google)?

 

New games = lots of client prediction and refined network code.

 

This is why all the 5-6 most popular games you see here:

 

http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

 

Aren't using peer-to-peer like JK1 - so things have to be different but for a good cause.

 

BTW - UT has okay movement but some of the worst netcode in any FPS.

 

Also, I can run good circles in Quake.

 

And .. if you know how to strafe, jump, and walk on walls, you can do very cool circle tricks with JK2.

 

Have fun playing JK1 and finding a bunch of players.

[TUnified]

HAHA, Rise of the Triad, ooohhh... all that jumping goodness just brings back memories

 

I can see where your going with this Fox, but I think your being a little too anxious to say that the quake 3 engine was not a good choice for JKII.

 

For one, I agree with you that the Quake3 engine was not the best choice. I bleive that the UT engine would of made a better choice for JKII.

 

Dont get me wrong, Im having a lot of fun with JKII as it is right now. But I just feel that the UT engine would have brought a little more Strategic movement, and better dodging execution. For one, I dont like having to press a movement key and then pressing duck to roll... I much preffered the double tapping dodge that UT implimented. Its probably the way I have my keys setup, mine are pretty weird and have used them since the days of Heretic, and have worked quite well to my advantage.

 

Quake3 Engine games just feel too stiff and rigid, not quite as fluid and smooth as UT was.

 

Its just a matter of opinion in reality, and I would of preferred the UT engine over the Quake3 engine.

 

But that makes no difference 'cause JKII R0x0r5!!! Hope they get it patched soon

 

Out

[Cmdr. Antilles]

About the double-tap to roll thing... That could be done in JK2... It's all a matter of programing. Raven just decided not to. Don't knock the engine for that.

[GRIMLOCK]

i can see it now! kyle returns with a square head and lightsaber to beat up on square stormtroopers!

BAH

UT's engine sux royaly

only upside was the loads of gameplay it had.

or haven't you set your fx in UT high enough to notice the "flow" of the character models in it? or ever looked closely at the skins and how they look like Q2 rejects.

 

As for this "stop and Go" thing you think Q3A has. i've had Q3A since not long after the release, and i'm very familier with its offspring (JK2, ST:EF, RTCW, Alice, etc...) and i have no clue wtf you speak of.

for the bigger gun always wins, i think not, if you have some skill, then u can take out any wanker with a BFG just by using your default machine gun.

Its really not hard if you actually know how to aim!

as for running, from all i've seen its very fluid. ever tried to turn up your mouse sensativity? it worked for me anyways. Give it a try!

Q3A's engine was a grand choice for JK2 because of the FX and customizability it came with, and i doubt Raven is gonna ruin a long standing relationship between themselves and the gaming kings at ID. if they did, they'd prolly lose the chance to get the Doom3 engine before its finished as they did with Q3A.

not to mention alot of JK2 players aren't even SW fans, but Q3A fans, i know cause i'm one of them

granted the Q3A engine isn't as great as U2 will be, but theres the catch, its "will be" not "is" . ATM Q3TA has the best GFX out there.. well, did till JK2 anyways

UT's engine is barely a upgrade to the Unreal engine (load up the two in a couple of windows and see what i mean)

 

Edit: as for getting around in the gaming world, i've an extensive list of games, most of them happen to be FPS titles.

[Cmdr. Antilles]

Heh... In the new patch, you double-tap a key to jump backwards.

[GRIMLOCK]

so?

sounds kinda like UT's dodgeing, double tap right or left to hop to one side real quick

[Nax]

Fox> I actually heard someone mention this in one of the formal reviews (I think it was either ign or gamespot).

 

 

He said that the developers had managed to give a sense of weight to the characters.

 

I realized that this was what was odd about the feel of the game. It feels much heavier. MUCH less agile than JK. You feel like you're hulking about for some reason.

 

I have no idea why. Perhaps the walk bob is too slow? Perhaps the acceleration is set too low?

 

*shrug* I miss the old one, but when I've got an urge for it, I go back to CS for a bit.

 

Nax