NewBJedi Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Back to 1.02 and whatever few servers run it. Sorry, I asked for bug fixes (fix the DFA, some cheats, etc), not a completely nerfed game. Yes, I know whine or whatever. I never whined about the original game - and this patch is full of stuff I didn't ask for. This is like Tribes 2 all over again - tweak nerf, tweak nerf. Feels like Nintendo meets JK2. P.S. The new saber feel is cool - as an 'option'. See you all via 1.02 if any of you still use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSTeG Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 You see finally you come in the light side of the force... But my proposition [http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51690] is still on the track m8 :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBJedi Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 To be specific: Grip and drain = completely nerfed and basically useless. They removed the ability to kick well which in my book is a big no-no. Double tap is just annoying and hardly ever works correctly. Kick was my ultimate revenge for anything - and people could kick me back - it wasn't overused or abused. The saber while very tight in control - is just a little too defense oriented. DFA is now replaced with a backstab which is even harder to avoid - a simple spin and thrust. I never asked for any of these changes. Those are my reasons for reinstalling and going back to 1.02. As I recall a lot of people stayed with Quake 3 1.17 for a long time until ID Software made the new patches have the 1.17 'feel options' (mainly the mouse). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBJedi Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by eSTeG You see finally you come in the light side of the force... But my proposition [http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51690] is still on the track m8 :-) I had these thoughts the day I installed the patch. Just didn't express them because I wanted people to give it time. But it doesn't take long to realize this patch is a switch from needing skill and mastering the game (1.02) to hack and slash with retarded nerfing of force powers and kick. Again, I never asked for these changes, in fact, I was pretty much against them - that's why I was trying to stop the whiner's in the first place - oh well, they got their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBJedi Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by eSTeG You see finally you come in the light side of the force... But my proposition [http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51690] is still on the track m8 :-) To ICQ you? Is that what you mean? Hey what, do you think of this: http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51872 I'm not sure having any real-time chat will help either of us, I'm pretty powerless over the direction of the next patch. I don't think anything I suggested to Raven was taken serious - i.e. don't change the gameplay just add options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eSTeG Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Your idea of a server side control can be hard to implement and overall hard to manage but it seems to be the most well balanced solution... No response from Raven? You see finally this game roxx and I am agree a game can always be patched to have new features and new behavior... But there is a gap between some change and completly change the way of playing no? I think this patch is "too hard", some things in should have been done with not so much effect... So everyone should be happy. What i think we have to keep from v1.02 are: - saber style fights : even if some minor changes can be improved) in order them to be tremendous and not too long (well staying 3 minutes fighting and parrying is not for my part in the mood of such games - speed of this game : saber fights and force uses like they are in v1.02 grant u this. U can't win a fight if you not combine them as quick as possible - weapons use : yes, even if for some peoples the saber is the spirit of this game, i think we can't get off weapons... And a good player always knows how to counter a Golan flooder... Good post NewBJedi! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Legend Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Have fun. You do realize your missing out on 4 new maps and an incredible jedi vs. mercenary mode don't you? In either case, I respect your opinion and hope that you will be pleased with the 1.*insert decimal here* patch that is inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBJedi Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by Jedi Legend Have fun. You do realize your missing out on 4 new maps and an incredible jedi vs. mercenary mode don't you? In either case, I respect your opinion and hope that you will be pleased with the 1.*insert decimal here* patch that is inevitable. That's fine. But to me this game is so completely different and simplified with all the nerfs and saber defense (again, granted the control part is much better) that it's playing with Nintendo controllers. The force powers in 1.02 were strong and it took a lot of good strategies to develop counter-moves to them. Now it hardly takes any strategy, because, they are basically worthless for the most part. I say, the only thing good that came out of this patch were some cheat/bug fixes (including DFA radius) and the addition of a saber that is more like SP - but it should have been 100% server side optional. The over defensive saber is causing this backstab spam problem people are having - because while you are attempting to attack someone's exhaustive automatic defense movements, he can simply turn and attack. Otherwise - yah, there are pluses, but way too many gameplay changes. My biggest beef is the nerfing of kick and grip. Drain I can sorta live with - but now it's impossible to defend oneself against lightening strikes, but the whole grip adds weight makes it a completely new and pretty much useless force. In the end, this patch tip the balance toward the light side. Instead of nerfing they should have just simply gave the light side more power. It's better to add than subtract ... I'll say that again .... It's better to add than subtract ... Why do I say that? Because punishing people who have worked on a skill with a certain force/weapon is really a bad way to treat customers. Say drain is too strong? Make absorb even stronger. Equalize by addition, not subtraction - don't punish people for learning to play the game. Kicking is too much? Develop a counter-kick move, or allow a person to kick back easily. Don't nerf the kick. Light side heal is too much? Make drain give even more health to the dark side. Add - do not subtract. In fact, in the Valley forum I ran a poll and the vast majority love the kick! It was the best overall counter-attack. Blah blah ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jellybelly Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Well...as I see it, this is exactly why the option for serverside options is so much needed. I figure Raven can go on forever releasing one patch after the other, and there still will be issues. Switches for most of the gameplay functions (saber, kick, forcepowers etc), would be very useful in this regard I think. Look at the long term prospects of the game, not just patch by patch. NewBJedi's views are shared by many, and even if I might not share all of them...they still should be respected by us all. Implementing these serverside options, would give the bulk of the fans an equal chance of getting very close to the gamestyle they prefer, not just a lucky few. My two cents: If there are no serious technical difficulties, I say go serverside options all the way. Cheers Jellybelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCrusher Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 NewB, Your opinion changes like the wind. Try spending more time playing the game, rather than posting complaints. Most players will not get good instantly. There is a learning curve and ajustment period. In Heretic2 it took a duelist about three months to peak. Give it time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewBJedi Posted May 9, 2002 Author Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by MrCrusher NewB, Your opinion changes like the wind. Try spending more time playing the game, rather than posting complaints. Most players will not get good instantly. There is a learning curve and ajustment period. In Heretic2 it took a duelist about three months to peak. Give it time. My opinion changes with knowledge and experience. As Jellybelly could tell you I have one opinion that I have always stuck too. Drastic gameplay changes are simply bad. Server side options are good. As for the new patch - I'm sorry, I didn't figure I'd play a new game with a new patch - just some minor tweaks here and there. If ID Software did this with Quake 3 - you wouldn't be seeing it nearly as popular as you do now. Want to know why Quake 3 is still popular? Because ID would release minor - not severe - gameplay 'beta patches' the public could play with and give feedback. Not this all sudden sweeping 'official' patch that divides the community. Raven needs to look up to their father of gaming and do as they do - release beta patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCrusher Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Raven is the Father of PC melee based games. I'm speaking from knowlege and experience. I've search and played them all, for many years now, and none compare to what Raven has done with their H2 style control and combat (context sensitve control). This game is based on a Jedi theme is it not? Everything that was written into this patch solidified this theme. This is not Q3 with a light sabre. This is a game about a Jedi whose primary weapon is a melee weapon - a Light Sabre. This theme was base fully on George Lucas' Star War Universe...not Id's Q3. With the new version the duels are now far more dramatic. The control is far better. The ranged weapons have been brought into balance as well. Why do you think Lucas Arts chose Raven? Because there was no other choice. In my opinion Id would be hard pressed to do what Raven has done in such a short amount of time. Trust me Raven does this for a living they work all day and night at it, they know better than you or I how to develop and patch a game. It is highly unlikely that Raven will release another major chance anytime soon. They've done their job and in my opion they've done it exceptionally well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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