Damar Stiehl Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Well, it was fun while it lasted... I won't complain about just how exactly the patch ruined the game, but for me it surely did. It's sad to see Diablo II happening all over again. To anyone unhappy with the patch, abandon hope all who enter here, there won't be an "undo" of it, it is more than obvious. To anyone happy with the patch, enjoy the game, you got what you asked for. To Raven, it was great to play an almost-perfect Jedi/Sith simulator before it got nerfed and tweaked into the oblivion. Thanks for demonstrating your methods of dealing with game balance though before I bought into Soldier of Fortune 2; now that game is definitely off my list. With that, farewell everyone, guess I'll have another go at it when JKIII comes out! Damar Stiehl, the Imperial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smitty Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Buh, Bye..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.L. Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by Damar Stiehl To anyone happy with the patch, enjoy the game, you got what you asked for. Didn't ask for anything myself, but I'm happy with the game still Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tozier Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Damar's right you know. Once you get the patch, and instal it, it's impossible to revert to the old version w/o installing it on a new directory. You get the same message in the start-up console as you do when logging on as a 1.03 to a 1.02 server. I'm still waiting for the Lucas Arts trouble shooting people to reply to my query at the help desk... Such is life... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRA_Wolf Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 See ya! One less whiner in the JK2 world. I find it funny, though, that none of these people who are "leaving" are willing to wait for 1.04 or later...Perhaps RAVEN will listen to you, and tweak the things that AREN'T good about the patch (janitors, weak guns)...Oh well. Not like I really care, since I only play in NF Duel servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroshi Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Sometimes I wonder who people are saying goodbye to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.L. Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Heh. No idea but I love every excuse for me to use this smilie. Cracks me up :violin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Wolf Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 patch haters = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aiee Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 *shrug* I'm fresh out of a NF duel server, playing BGJ, Pit, Bespin air vanes, Cargo Bay 47 and Ceremonial hall. It was quite possibly the best game I had in a long time. not only did the duels involve more fighting and less running, but all the people who usually come in and whine or spam a single move over and over were presumably off returning their JK2 cds or throwing them away in disgust. To Damar Stiehl: well, my hat is off to you for formulating yourself without starting any personal attacks. It is more than I can say for most people who have started threads saying they didn't like the patch. I implore you, however, to give the patch another chance. Perhaps try to figure out what makes sabers work now, and give it a week or so. Ammo usage has been complained about from all sides, both those who like the patch, and those who don't. Same goes for the "janitor" sweep. If 1.03 is anything to judge by, Raven DOES listen to us in here, and I'm guessing both will be tweaked in 1.04. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tozier Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by Silent Wolf patch haters = silent wolf = I am quite good at the new system, and am not leaving, I WILL wait to see if there's a new patch. I AM angry that you cannot reinstall on the same directior w/o patch GRRRRRRR... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flaming_Saber Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 I would like to say one thing: THIS IS JUST A GAME. JKII rocks even with the occasional loop-holes in Multi-player. I'm reading the posts here and and alot of you anti-patchers make it sound like it's a personal affront. I myself am not a good saber duelist without force powers. Force powers are my forte' in conjunction with a saber. For example I'll be last in score in a saber only duel but 1st, 2nd or 3rd in a Free for all. But no matter the rating I don't play for score! I play for the fun of playing! As for the loop holes that some gamers take advantage of learn how to do them too and fight fire with fire! Or better yet, play around in the game and see if you can't find your own loop-hole. If you host a game set the ground rules verbally tell the players not to take advantage of these loop holes and if they do kick them out of the game simple as that. Also instead of giving up on the patch and the game entirely why don't we all get a campaing going, go to Raven and tell them the loop-holes in the game and also what you would like to see or removed in the next patch. Hey, they might listen. Since we are their customer base I'm sure they will not just shrug it off because I can see this game as having a long if not longer game life than JK1 or Mots (mysteries of the sith). In ending, I'll restate it THIS IS JUST A GAME. Play it, be happy, forget the cheesers, hackers and the whiners and loop-holes! HIGH SCORING is not the end all and be all of existance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ae0N Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 See ya, don't let the door hit you in the ass. Now, I'm going to go play some JKII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idlemind Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 bye man. I'm considering doing the same thing. I could wait for 1.04, but that would probably just make backstab useless too so that NO attacks do any damage. Then everyone who complains about backstab would be happy and we could all live in this communist gameplay society where no one is "better" than the next guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRIMLOCK Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 u could downgrade just by removing a couple of the assets.pk3 files certain ones anyways. personaly, i like having control of my saber, dunno why thats a bad thing. I think those that hate the patch are the DFA people i've read so much about, but this is also the issue with alot of CS players these days, they made the game actually require skill in 1.4 and now people are crying that they can't hop around like madmen and manage killing everyone with other various lame tactics. and no, i'm not a "newbie" nore am i even gonna consider myself a pro, i like to stick to intermidiate myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-tecc Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by idlemind bye man. I'm considering doing the same thing. I could wait for 1.04, but that would probably just make backstab useless too so that NO attacks do any damage. Then everyone who complains about backstab would be happy and we could all live in this communist gameplay society where no one is "better" than the next guy. Hehe... Loved the analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blamer Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Good riddance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDarkSide Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Wow Toziers. I wouldn't go calling Wolf a newbie... For the life of me, I cannot figure out how anyone could go back to the land of DFA spamming with that crazy hit radius. Even for everything this patch may have done to your favorite force power/alt fire, that alone makes this patch irreversible for me. The saber enhancements are the icing on the cake. You guys act like only the honorable people are going back to v1.02. Guess what the DFA whores are already back there waiting for ya. To everyone reverting back to v1.02 because of the "new" backsweeps.....I think you're in for a big surprise. *gasp* What are they doing here in v1.02?? Is this some evil attempt by Raven to punish me for not using the patch?? They're there alright, and it's worse than v1.03. You just didn't notice cuz you were too busy obsessing over DFA spammers. At least in the new patch it doesn't do nearly as much damage all the way through the swing. Again let me point people to ChangKhan's thread (the dude who actually devised and implemented the saber system) where he says SPECIFICALLY all that was changed with the saber system. Instead of linking it, where you can easily avoid it, let me paste here for u: **************************************************** "In general, some work was put into making sabers more likely to hit - both the other players and their lightsaber. This was not so much a problem with strong attacks because they are so long and slow, but often medium and fast attacks would miss or pass through. Idle saber damage (i.e.: damage not done while in an attack animation) was toned down to reduce the number of seemingly "random" kills. Parries, deflections, reflections, broken parries and knockaways were put into MP (these were in SP but were not in MP). Saber lock frequency was slightly increased so that it could happen in the heat of combat. Hand dismemberment was put in to MP, also, the hand-dismemberment "win" result of saberlocks that is in SP was put in MP. It only happens if the loser of the saber lock was low on health anyway. Light Stance: The foward lunge attack (swing from the bottom up) was toned down in damage just a little bit because it was quite often a 1-shot kill and could be exploited fairly easily. It still does a lot of damage, just not enough to kill in one hit. Medium Stance: Medium was not meant to be the whirling dervish style, so it was made so that, if you do the same exact move over and over again, you cannot chain as many attacks as if you mix it up a little. "Spinning top" fighters should use fast style. This is the *only* change to medium style. Strong Stance: Strong attacks were slowed down some to match SP, as was player movement while doing a strong attack. Strong attacks also do more of their damage at the middle of the swing and less at the start and end. This was necessary to give the strong attacks a more realistic feel (because the anims are so long that sometimes you would get a somewhat accidental looking kill). But strong attacks were also given the ability to chain, like in SP. If you do an attack and then switch up the direction of the attack by 45 degrees, you will be able to chain into another attack. Also, the strong overhead jump attack was made to not do as much damage once the saber is in the ground and you can no longer turn during this attack (like the fast style's lunge attack). This was the single most exploited move in MP and required this much heavy tweaking. The back-flip off a wall/opponent was changed into a double-tap. This was mostly done because it was frustrating to try to get over a small lip and end up back-flipping off of it. In combat, you can still kick someone and knock them down with this move, but you have to do a double-tap. Also, it was noticed that the strong style was completely vulnerable to this move because of the long wind-up time of it's attacks. A somewhat skilled jump-kicker could always knock down a strong style user (often you could not see the kick coming). So the jump-kick was made to not *knock down* a strong user who is in the middle of a swing. It still does damage and you still flip off them. Regardless of what you feel is different or other posters say, these are really the *only* changes to saber combat... We tested the new saber tweaks pretty heavily and only stopped when we felt that the three styles were well balanced with each other. **************************************************** When it comes to determining what the actual changes are, I'm going to go with the guy who actually PUT the changes in. TDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessicka Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 jump kick is ruined, and alot more. the game felt more realistic before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tozier Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by GRIMLOCK u could downgrade just by removing a couple of the assets.pk3 files certain ones anyways. Could you tell us which ones? And to TheDarkSide: Wolf isn't a newbie, I was being an ass because he was being an ass. But will all of you, for the purposes of science, do somthing as a comparison? Play, on your favorite map, against 10 Jedi Master bots of your choice of course, on both 1.03 and 1.02, without reverting to spamming the DFA, and see which is more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[QGA]Vertigo Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 What is it with you guys that you think that everyone who's not pro-patch is/was a DFA whore ? I personally played with all the 3 stances, never (well, almost never) used the DFA, and knew for virtually everything a good counter (executing it correctly is another matter.... hehe). After playing 4 hours/day for 3 days I have to say that I utterly hate what they've done to saber combat. Deflections/Reflections/Parries/Knockaways is all good... in SP, NOT in MP. While it looks nice and seems more realistic, it narrows down the gap between newbies and more skilled players a LOT, making competitive play something to laugh at. Saber combat is made less random... yes, in a way, when you do a slash it will ALWAYS be the same slash in the same conditions, but this is totally negated by the INSANE amount of blocking that happens. Thus, due to the blocking, everyone's charging at everyone in one big ball of players, frantically trying to hit someone, resulting in very chaotic and random gameplay. While duel might have been improved slightly (is more "pretty" to look at...) it totally wrecks ALL OTHER game modes. Bottom line is... any skill you had at this game has been thrown out of the window, and is now replaced by mindless charging you opponent, wildly slashing with your lightsaber, hoping to hit/kill your oponent, OR spamming the backstab move/lightning all over the level... this due to the fact that everything else was nerfed and that these (unchanged) things have now become the best way to kill someone... Some improvements indeed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tozier Posted May 9, 2002 Share Posted May 9, 2002 Originally posted by [QGA]Vertigo What is it with you guys that you think that everyone who's not pro-patch is/was a DFA whore ? I personally played with all the 3 stances, never (well, almost never) used the DFA, and knew for virtually everything a good counter (executing it correctly is another matter.... hehe). After playing 4 hours/day for 3 days I have to say that I utterly hate what they've done to saber combat. Deflections/Reflections/Parries/Knockaways is all good... in SP, NOT in MP. While it looks nice and seems more realistic, it narrows down the gap between newbies and more skilled players a LOT, making competitive play something to laugh at. Saber combat is made less random... yes, in a way, when you do a slash it will ALWAYS be the same slash in the same conditions, but this is totally negated by the INSANE amount of blocking that happens. Thus, due to the blocking, everyone's charging at everyone in one big ball of players, frantically trying to hit someone, resulting in very chaotic and random gameplay. While duel might have been improved slightly (is more "pretty" to look at...) it totally wrecks ALL OTHER game modes. Bottom line is... any skill you had at this game has been thrown out of the window, and is now replaced by mindless charging you opponent, wildly slashing with your lightsaber, hoping to hit/kill your oponent, OR spamming the backstab move/lightning all over the level... this due to the fact that everything else was nerfed and that these (unchanged) things have now become the best way to kill someone... Some improvements indeed... Well said. I wish I could post that well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steeef Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 i find that the best way to kill someone is to actual duel with them. it may not be the fastest/easiest, but it certainly is the most enjoyable. i never learned dfa or the backstab, precisely because i'd rather have a fair duel than just murdering my opponent as quickly as possible. granted many aren't happy that they can't kill people as easily before with just a few moves, but i can't say i'm sorry to see these people go. i'd much rather play with others who actually want a fair duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krak3n Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 umm....why don;t you try learning the combat system again, it's not tat difficult. It's not full of mindless chraging, i had a superb suel, i timed my attacks and won. It is not that difficult to adapt. Yet another Person un willing to learn and gain skill be hard work and determination. That seperates the good gamers from the Very Good gamers. Anyway, try using the weapons more if you don't like the sabers? Krak3n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[QGA]Vertigo Posted May 10, 2002 Share Posted May 10, 2002 Uh.. I AM trying to learn the new saber system. And yes, I'm getting very good at it. But that is not the point... The point is, it is LESS FUN. While doing a duel that lasts longer might be more satisfying, the fact that you're VERY unsure about the outcome makes it pretty aggravating. Almost every duel I did ended with the other guy having less than 20 health left if I died, or me having almost no health left when the other guy died. This is no fun. There is almost no distinction between a good player and a less skilled player. For FFA it's entirely rediculous, as everyone just groups into one big ball at one of the open place of the level, leaving the rest of the level practically empty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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