Respect to Raven

[Aiee]

Ah. Point taken. I usually play no force, but I'm sure I wouldn't have problem with people doing that. In a duel game, once the first saber clash has taken place, I don't stop fighting until my opponent is dead. I've had too many players turn off their saber, then run at me and turn it on in the last second to be lenient on them.

 

It's unfair to those who really do have to leave, of course, but that just serves them right for not visiting the bathroom while they were in spec. ;]

[Vestril]

I've had too many players turn off their saber, then run at me and turn it on in the last second to be lenient on them.

 

 

Completely OT, but I know exactly what you mean, it annoyed me too and is why I stopped being nice about it. Before the fight it one thing, during is another.

[S!TH!NAT0R]

To all of you Anti-patch peeps.......

.......You must unlearn what you have learned before 1.03-LOL:p

[JRA_Wolf]

You think I'm fabricating the email? If you want, I will forward a copy of the email including my original message to you, if you wish. I give oyu my word though, that I do not stoop to such levels as to forge documents to proove a trivial point. I'm not that type of person.

[JRA_Wolf]

um, just a quick note after rereading some of the posts...

TheDarkSide: "Put up or shut up", "blah blah you guys are obsolete, blah blah"...those were MY comments..notice they are outside of the quotations. Everything INSIDE the quotations is quoted directly from my email box from Michael Gummelt...

[UGG]

If you sent an email to a dev member, normally you'd be waiting days for a reply. Sent an email to Michael Chang Gummelt today. He had replied with some excellent information and help regarding bot routes within 3 hours. That's excellent support.

Tell me about it!

 

BoBo_Fett and I are amazed at how helpful James Monroe and Mike Gummelt are. Sure, it may be part of their jobs but it just shows how professional they are. They must get flooded with requests for help but they have not yet ignored any of mine.

[D.L.]

Here's the two emails I got regarding the patch. I told him I was very happy with it, which I am. Obilerated n00bs last night on Nar Shadda but that's another story

 

Email 1:

Yeah, I expected some people to freak, that's natural. But I also see some

of them changing their minds and saying they like the changes now that

they've gotten over the initial shock.

 

To which I replied, "Yeah I suppose you can't please everyone"

 

Email 2:

Yes, if you try to please everyone all the time, you'll just end up

disappointing everyone.

 

But I also got this when I asked about pernamently changing saber colors in SP, without using the sabercolor cheat or altering the cfg file.

 

All you'd have to change is the sabers.shader (just extract it and edit

the blue saber shader entry to use the orange saber art). However, I think

the glow will stay blue...? The only real way to do it is to put it in some

.cfg file, I guess (sorry, the saber colors were not really designed with

easy customization in mind... at one point we were only allowed to have 2 or

3 colors at all). Maybe if there's another patch or something, we might try

to make this easier to modify.

 

There might be another patch, nothing is confirmed yet but if all the whiners (and I mean the people with Raven ruined the Game, Waaa, Waaa not the ones offering good constructive criticism) quit their whihng and actually provide reasonable arguments, I am sure Raven will listen. NewBJedi is a good example of this

[[QGA]Vertigo]

....as am I [/EGO]

[Chewie Bakker]

Jedi Outcast is the first game I've ever e-mailed a Game Programmer before, so Raven gets a thumbs up from me.

 

Jedi Outcast is also the most fun game I've played for a long time, so Raven gets another thumbs up.

 

Jedi Outcast is also... wait. I've ran out of thumbs.

 

 

My main contention:

1. Jedi Outcast is cool.

2. Raven Software is cool

 

[TheDarkSide]

jra_ wolf:

I knew those were your comments, but I'm not so sure everyone who read it did. People were getting fairly upset, and being that it seemed to be an inflammatory post on your part in a thread started and made for anti-patch people, along with the fact that in the bunch of emails I've sent to him, I've never gotten a response like that (even on the one I sent about the patch and its reaction), I put forth that it's most likely a fake.

 

I'll take you at your word, but if you had included your original message I'm sure it would make his response make alot more sense. What was the phrasing of your question to him?

 

TDS

[Borf]

Originally posted by Darksider

Ignore the whining sheep Raven, JK2 is one of the best games ever after this patch

 

<applaudes>

[D.L.]

Bump

 

RAVEN

[JRA_Wolf]

As you wish:

 

 

"We're not reverting to anything, complainers are just going to have to get used to it all over again, I guess... :/

 

Michael Chang Gummelt

 

Gameplay Programmer: Jedi Knight II

 

Raven Software

 

http://www.ravensoft.com

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Wolf/Okami [mailto:wolf@mysticdale.com]

Sent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 3:23 PM

To: Gummelt, Mike

Subject: About the patch...

 

 

Hey,

 

I just wanted to say: Awesome job on the patch. I can't speak for everyone, obviously, but I love it and appreciate all of the hard work you guys at RAVEN have done to balance out the game and make it a far more enjoyable game. I am worried though..you see, I am on a Sattelite internet connection so I get horrible pings..right around 600 - 700. before the patch with all the DFA spamming I really didn't stand a chance...now after the patch I can actually play in duel servers and have FUN. I'm worried because I have this feeling that you guys might revert the game back to 1.02...Can you confirm or deny this? My future of playing JK2 online hangs on this problem, until the source code is released and someone makes a mod where DFA isn't even possible..

 

Thanks as always,

 

JRA_Wolf AKA,

- Okami

wolf@mysticdale.com

Death Smiles at us all...All we can do is smile back"

[Perniciosus]

Personally, I don't see why JRA_Wolf would feel the need to "fabricate" an e-mail. What would it possibly serve? It would be one thing if he didn't like the patch, because then I could say: 'Yeah, he made that up just to give the anti-patch crowd a rallying cry'. However, that's not the case because he likes the patch and it's not like anti-patch people need anything more than the patch itself to be angry.

 

However, I will say this: I have a personal set of guidelines when I'm writing to a company to make a complaint about a product. The letter must be well articulated, well thought out, to the point and include what I feel needs to be changed. My letter to Raven was no different than any other professional complaint letter I have written and went three pages in 10-point Tahoma font, but, if the reply to JRA_Wolf's e-mail is any indication, I wasted my time, my 34 cents and my printer toner.

 

I've praised Raven on the forums and I praised them in the aforementioned letter, yet the impression I get from that response is that they're taking the standpoint of: "We got their $49.99 and gave them a patch, so screw them."

 

I had come into this thread to praise Raven, but that e-mail has caused me to reconsider. There is to be no praise from me for a company who blatently calls its customers "complainers" and who won't be open minded enough to read and/or respond to well thought out, professionally courteous letters of complaint.

[JRA_Wolf]

Complainers/whiners = "I HATE THIS PATCH IT SUX RAVEN SUX IM LEAVING BYE". The people who actually gave their reasons for not liking the patch, in a polite and well mannered way, I have nothing but the utmost respect for, and I don't think ChangKhan was grouping them in the term "Complainers"..

[TheDarkSide]

JRA_wolf: Thanks for the posting!

 

I'd have to agree with your assessment. We'll never know for sure I guess unless ChangKhan comes on to explain it himself, but from all my dealings with him, he's been absolutely the best company representative I think I've ever dealt with in any company that I've bothered to communicate with.

 

You're right I think with your definition of what Raven is considering 'complainers'. Think about it people! Who DO you listen to in your place of employment, the people who come up to you and tell you "You suck!" or the ones who say "We like what your product(service, whatver it is you do), but this wasn't exactly what we were looking for, what don't you try this, because of that."

 

Few people who have presented negative feedback about the patch in a reasonable way whose presentation wouldn't automatically discredit whatever it is they are trying to say. If you notice in the original "patch suggestion thread", from whence elements of the current patch came, NOBODY was on there saying "THIS GAME IS RUINED BECAUSE OF <X>, I'm going back to MOHAA". You had people posting the problems they had and suggestions for re-balance. All the while, they were STILL playing the game, not running away in a fit of self-righteous, ha-rumph indignity at being given such a "shoddy" product to begin with. They were adapting and biding their time, hoping that Raven would listen. No calls for mass retreats to Quake 3, or MoHAA or RTCW. And Raven listened, and did some, but by no means everything that was listed on that thread.

 

To automatically assume, the "whiners" got their way in this patch is pretty insulting to Raven. You're saying they didn't do any testing to see if these things were balanced? They just read a couple of posts, and then ran to their workstations,without thinking about anything or having any meetings on what to do, changed the code to comply, and shipped it out the door? Give them some credit. Come on.

 

TDS

[Jedi Legend]

Perniciosus, how can you honestly think you are wasting your time? Just because they aren't reverting to anything does not mean they won't take suggestions into consideration. I can see how you would think you are wasting your time, if that was the one e-mail that you read in this thread.

 

I don't really understand what's so offensive about the e-mail.