The Truth about Version 1.03

[MrCrusher]

A game developer has a responsibility to do what they feel is best to suit the tone and theme of a game. This is twice as true for multiplayer as there is no plot - theme and tone (style) become predominant.

 

**Computer Gaming World**

 

Quote Jeff Green -

 

 

"As in "Jedi Knight" the light sabre is easily the best weapon - as it should be - and is the only way to defeat other light sabre wielding foes."

 

Jeff Green gave it five stars out of five stars, editors choice and contender for game of the year. His reference to the light sabre was based on the singleplay sabre system (as he did not address MP in the review).

 

**PC Gamer**

 

quote Jim Preston

 

"The problem in human on human play is that it's sometimes difficult to tell if your making contact with the sabre, duels often degrade in to frantic button mashing."

 

Jim Preston gave it 91% and Editor's Choice. He was referring to version 1.02 of the multiplayer sabre combat.

 

If you have trouble reading between the lines then let me help you.

 

Other than both reviews implying that Raven designed this game almost flawlessly, Mr. Preston alludes to the single greatest complaint about multiplay Ver 1.02 it does not play like singleplay. He does not say so specifically but he implies the obvious difference.

 

Raven has taken the time to adjust and enhance, and extensively play test the new sabre system. They have fixed virtually every aspect of the under developed Ver. 1.02. They have made an excellent choice that enhances and solidifies the theme of the Jedi. Jedi never use ranged weapons (unless it's a star fighter). The sabre comes second only to the Jedi theme in importance. The choice is theirs alone to make and they have made the correct choice.

 

This is not a MORPG. Those who clamor for another patch may clamor for many months to come. Raven does not get a monthly subscription fee of $13.99 from the players to release enhancements, and upgrades to quell the complaints and demands of a vocal minority.

 

Most likely Raven will continue to provide content, but at their discretion and when they can afford the time, or if there is a huge bug that needs to be squashed.

 

If version 1.03 had been the first version none would have complained they would have played it learned it and liked it. Thrusting dramatic changes on a game community can be very problematic, especially for those who committed many hours of play time to the first version.

 

Warez can also be a problem especially now that their product is less viable. You most likely can't warez to version 1.03. There are most likely many trolls from mound-warez encouraging servers to stay with ver 1.02. As well as players who just don't want to have to buy the game. You see posts saying "connect errors... what's wrong?" some may be legit but most are pirating. These players hate the patch, and most likely post misleading remarks.

 

You can't depend on internet myth or forum polls as a valid source due to their exploitive nature. When I hear someone gripe about backstabs or blocking I head out to the servers in search of this exploit 9 times out of 10 it not there or the gripe is founded on lack of game play experience. There are valid complaints, but they are few.

 

Go to the servers where the fans are playing not to the forums. It is there that you shall find the truth about Ver 1.03.

 

I applaud Raven for their excellent work and hope that they continue to do what they feel is right.

[agentdalecooper]

thats a nice well reasoned carefully reasearched pile o bantha poo....why doeth i flame? simple. if i wanted to play quake ida saved 50 bucks and downloaded more maps and mods, i bought this game to play a jedi knight. i see alot of tweaking to sabre and force skills warranted or no. i see not ONE change to gun damage rate of fire etc specifically on flechette weapon which allows one well placed player to simply OWN a ffa. there need to be some serious changes made to specific weapons or this game will degenerate into nothing more than a glorified q3

[MrCrusher]

there need to be some serious changes made to specific weapons or this game will degenerate into nothing more than a glorified q3

 

Then you agree that Raven should stick with and enhance the to Jedi theme?

 

.....you have a strange way of saying so, but I'm glad that you agree.

[BcoAzriel]

very well written statement, i applaud it. However i do have to reply to youre comment

 

You can't depend on internet myth or forum polls as a valid source due to their exploitive nature. When I hear someone gripe about backstabs or blocking I head out to the servers in search of this exploit 9 times out of 10 it not there or the gripe is founded on lack of game play experience. There are valid complaints, but they are few.

 

i do play all the time and everyone DOES complain about the blcoking and the backstab, more the blocking than the backstab though, like you said the games are were you see the real players opinions, and most from what i have seen do not like the new patch because of the weakend saber damage and the blocking. A great example of this, when is the last time you have seen someone win from frags since the patch has come out ? (free for all, this does not include other game plays such as duel and caputre the flag as time limit is almost meaniningless) More often than not the victory is won through time because of the difficulty in killing someone due to the inane blcoking system.

 

And you did bring up an interesting point about how if people played 1.3 before they played 1.2 there would not be such a complaint about the game, i am not sure if this is true either, i never cared to much for Rune or the original Jedi Knight (after months of playing it non stop ) because in the long run i simply did not enjoy the lack of balance (double swing in jedi knight) or the akwardness of movement (Rune), were the first time i played Jedi Outcast i fell imediatly in love with the fluidity and balance of the game play, now the game does not move with the same fluid grace in the combo;s, (that lag in the back spin feels horrible) and the lame damage in the normal saber swings/insane block has rendered all the other styles besides strong almost usless with anything except for special moves, to sum that up check out the saberist guide hosted on good ol jediknight.com

 

good well written argument though, but still disagree, this patch is a good attempt but still broke an almost perfect game

[Nathan Wind]

by "sticking to the jedi theme," i assume you mean handicap the guns severly, if not remove them completely.

 

this will completely destroy the depth of the game.

 

guns are integral to keeping the game fresh and balanced. and i am not just talking about the crappy small arms either, i mean the HR in all its glory.

 

JK is about mis-mathces and strategy. I love saber vs gun fights. I live for them, and thats the one thing i find most fun in this game. I have yet to come across a gunner i couldnt beat with a saber or vice versa.

 

i hated q3, q3 was crap. it was completly 1 dimensional, whereas jk (v02) is 3. The "addition of force powers and sabers" to make a "glorified q3" is far from accurate.

 

The fact of the matter is, force powers are the ultimate equilizer when it comes to this game.

 

There are plenty of people in v02 who used sabers and would win an ffa match at least 10 points ahead of second place.

 

Any game in which you can employ 1 tactic and constantly win is a flawed game. Any game in which you are forced to employ 1 tactic to win is a flawed game. I play ffa and the gameplay is extremely one-sided in favor of light sided saberists. Hell, the dark side is completely impotent in this version. FFA is now only a saber battle to see who can pull who first.

 

The main tweaking that should have been done should have dealt with saber vs saber battles. But saberists bitching that they cant go head on against a person with an HR should realize that they are fools. You cannot fight a saber vs gun battle like a saber vs saber battle. To say the least, force should be used to even out the playing field (and did for the most part depite minor flaws). hell, even in nf matches, saberists can beat gunners, although at that point, it really does become more of a glorfied q3 in my opinnion.

 

I saw the comment about the flachette cannon, and unfortunatly, i agree that there is a problem with it, however, a minor one. There could have been a much better way of dealing with it, by tweaking the force powers instead of rendering it, as well as HR, useless.

 

v03 was as mistake. i play the game for the action, strategy, and overall feel for the game. Not because i think sabers are soo cool. This game took a step in the wrong direction. Where was the beta testing?

[Spider AL]

There are many problems with 1.03. They must be fixed in my opinion.

 

Blocking negates use of sabres in FFA and CTF

Ammo consumption too high for CTF

Backswing/force combos overpowered

Dark side underpowered (no threat to lightsiders like me)

Sabre doesn't do enough damage when it DOES hit

 

Now before the newbies come in and say "j00 r a WH!neRRR!!!11", I win all the time. No, ALL the time. I lose a grand total of one game out of twenty, if that, and that's usually when I've joined halfway through an existing match anyway.

 

This is not the biased opinion of a whiner, it's the opinion of a winner.

[MrCrusher]

Play the game the way it should be played now. Not the way you played ver 1.02. When you've spent as much time playing the new way as you did the old way then your much more likely to be listened to by the powers that be.

 

Give it a chance, forget you ever played ver. 1.02. Play the game how the developers intend for it to be played. Come and post suggestions in a month or so. Most likely Raven will be begining an offical addon or JK3 soon. Help them make clear choices with sound well thought out ideas.

 

To release another patch could lead to mayhem as most servers haven't even upped to 1.03 yet. Could you imagine if another patch were released and only a handful patched to that?

 

I can only second guess Raven's intentions, but if I were them I would be holding tight, let a month or two pass, give all servers time to patch to 1.03. And, once players have put some time into the current system, make some good hard decisions on the direction off their game.

 

Dissecting what works and what doesn't work is mute at this point. There just hasn't been enough time playing this version for folks to make a sound judgement.

 

It takes far longer to unlearn old habits than it does to learn new ones.

 

Work with the new system. Due to the added depth it will be far more challenging and enjoyable.

 

If your having trouble with one aspect or a type of player focus on overcoming this challenge. That is what this game is all about.

[w1ggl3s]

hehe we all went back to 1.02

 

1.03 is fun if u got 3-4 hours to waste dueling people on a nf saber only server.

[BcoAzriel]

ok the first time i liked the post, but now the "take time to unlearn how to play and discover the hidden depths of the patch" has gotten old, THERE IS NOTHING TO ENJOY ! im not going to sit here and rehash what everyone has already discovered, the best honest, profesional opinioin of what the patch did can be found here

http://www.oculis.org/asc/guides/saberguide_103.htm

 

in your statement you are saying that we should like this patch because this is how the game was ment to be played, well if thats the case then the accident they created with the 1.2 version is much better than the intendend nightmare they have now, this game has gotten to the point that saber combat, not even bringing in guns, has ben reduced to force power battles due to the pathetic damage of the sabers and the insane blocking ability and im sorry i do not want to adjust to a silly game were its force spamming or a 20 minute fight to kill one damn person, oh yeah im sorry, i already adjusted and win a lot and you know what? the game still sucks.........

[BcoAzriel]

and why we are on the get used to it subject, how long do you realy think it takes to get used to something? months? all the serious clan players and all the seriouse normal players have all become used to it already, go check out the community sight links and ull find in 90% of the forums and fan sights not only have they gotten used to it they have mapped out strategty guides and suggestion forums, and what do those show? a GREAT deal of dissatifaction and a whole slew of cheesy kill technices, ya know like turning the whole fight into a force push/pull contest and then use the backsab o doom..............................

[The Blind Jedi]

I can clearly see both sides of the arguement, when it is presented clearly, as subjective as this discussion will always be. Everyone has a preference, and is allowed their opinions. I also have many about the patch. A friend of mine recently bought the game after my raving about it for a month, tho he installed the 1.03 patch immediately, never having played 1.02. He still thinks the game is incredible. Granted, stacking 1.03 against 1.02, there is a basis for comparison, but stack 1.03 against, say, any other Q3 game out there, removing 1.02 from the mix. It's still an incredible game, great concept, and incredibly original.

I will fess up that, on the JKII.net poll, I did vote that 1.03 needs tweaking. I can't argue that. But I still have an enourmous amount of respect and awe at the fine programmers who developed the game. I applaud them for their efforts, in the initial releast 1.02, as well as 1.03. They were well intentioned.

Perhaps if people would stop whining about htis and that, and attempt to phrase their discontent in a constructive manner, rather than pissing & moaning, the fine people at Raven would be more happy to oblige them and remedy some concerns of the masses. Everything in life is about compromise. No one gets everything they want, but perhaps Raven will be able to find that middle ground where everyone can be happy and accepting of a truly stellar concept for a product.

If you truly don't like the game, stop whining, and stop playing. If you can content yourself to be patient, and counter-productively critical, perhaps your interests will be addressed. (...as in the above mentioned 1.03 guide to saber dueling. Well written, btw!)

 

In short, be patient. It took Raven a month+ to develop this patch from user feedback. Give them some time to balance things out further, address the concerns of EVERYONE (and not just the jump-monkey whiners) and truly treak their fine product to an mutually benefitial state. Be respectful of the people who created this game, and not critical of them for not reading your minds while developing the 1.03 patch.

Also, keep in mind their other projects. SOF2, etc. These people cannot dedicate 24/7 to fixing your sabering issues. They'll do their best, but they have families and other obligations also.

 

I do look forward to future development of this product, but I will keep in mind our fine programmers, and their real lives. Bravo ladies and gentlemen who developed Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast! Please keep up the good work for those of us who appreciate and enjoy every moment of your hard work on this product.

[Nathan Wind]

i have never seen my thought stated more articulately.

 

if anyone has ANY question whatsoever about the terrible balance problems in .3, i can guarantee that they have not been in a match with me.

 

i am an expert at this game. i really really hate to toot my own horn, but it is painfully obvious to me who the people are that know what they are talking about, and ones that do not.

 

i know this game intimately. its sad but true. the original poster is clearly of the "has no idea what they is talking about" ilk.

 

Enough of this neo-hippy, new age "unlearn and relearn" ****. The are many feasible responses to this crappy patch, none of which should involve anything along the lines of holding hands in a campaign to re-educate and tolerate.

 

I just wish i could be at raven studios. I would be more than willing to hold their hands and guide them in the few MINOR tweaks that the v2 game engine needed.

 

At this point it plays more like jk 1 than anything else. Except now there is no ff oasis for guys like me, and there is no force destruction to level the sides. As the light side stands now, there needs to be a super duper pocket nuke of an ability to make dark side even playable.

 

in the words of a wise man, "[no matter how much you get used to it] this game still sucks. "

[Spider AL]

I have to say, now that Nathan's broken the ice... That I'm great too. I'm fabulous in fact. BettaR thAn HiM! BETTAR THAN ANYWUN!1!!1

 

Only joking, though I really am rather good. Perhaps it's the fate of people like us to lose what we love though Nathan. I was hoping for a DFA fix and some new maps in this patch, but instead we have sabres which are only truly useful in duel mode, flaws that allow us to kill people in one hit... with one technique... over... and over... aagh.

 

Still, at least we got a shiney floor on one of the maps eh...

 

Chin up, let's organise a v.1.02 club, and hope that Raven listens to our cries of anguish, seeing that we have legitimate and logical concerns.

[MrCrusher]

Using your high opinion of yourself as qualification for good judgment isn't really necessary.

 

I'm not saying you have to like the changes, as its apparent you don't. I'm just suggesting that give it a chance, by playing it as long as you played ver 1.02.

 

I can only guess, but, I am afraid you'll be complaining for some time before there are any new changes.

 

Do yourselves a favor and repeat after me, "Its only a game, its only a game, its only a game."

 

...and an exceptional one if my opinion is worth anything.

 

Good luck

 

MrCrusher out...

[The Blind Jedi]

Do yourselves a favor and repeat after me, "Its only a game, its only a game, its only a game."[/b]

 

Don't forget to breathe. Repeating it too much will make you pass out, or at least pass into delerium.

 

And MrCrusher, your opinion does count, as does everyone's. I agree with you.....it's only an exceptional game.

 

Someone, please create a really cool game, and call it REALITY! NOt enough people seem to spend time there anymore.

 

And thus....the downfall as modern civilization as we know it....leading to the "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away....a bunch of folks became obsessed with a game, and stopped bathing...

 

Get a grip. Do your homework, pay more attention to your wives (or husbands, as the case may be) and remember, it's a distraction, not a way of life!

[Nathan Wind]

Three things that i want to make clear about my stance:

 

1. JK2 is one hell of a good game

2. Raven does deserve respect and i was perhaps overly hostile in my criticism of them personally

3. They were definitely well intentioned, and that is worth something. what, i dont know.

 

I really cannot see how either of you have a good idea what you're talking about. You clearly play on different servers than i do.

 

I do realize that it is just a game. You need to realize that "get a life" is a laughably feeble attempt to defend your misguided response. You are well intentioned, and that is worth something. what, i dont know. However, it is definitely along the lines of a gold star and a cookie. You are always entitled to your opinnion, even if it is and wrong and clearly ignorant.

[Nathan Wind]

you know what?

 

im sorry.

 

this is going to turn into a flamming match real fast, and that is not what this is about. my responses were overly hostile and pretty much provoke nothing less. for that i apologize.

 

everyone is entitled to their opinnion. everyone should get a cookie and a gold star.

[The Blind Jedi]

Nathan,

 

I just wanted to say, respectable comments from you. I respect you posting your stance here. You're right, it could become a flame, but why? What purpose? I salute you, for your honesty and cookie comment, tho if I'm seeing stars, I"m going to guess you just knocked me senseless in MP, which is still respectable.

 

Enjoy the game, for what it's worth. I do hope, and look forward to when the game becomes acceptable for all, or at least the majority of those players who truly enjoy and appreciate playing the game fairly and honorably.

 

Honor, and a swift saber to you.

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Oh, that's so nice. First flaming, next apoligizing.

 

Why couldn't you do that in the other way for a change ?

 

But well, since Mr Crusher posted such a message, I'm sorry, I'll post my thoughts and even I dislike to flame, mostly because I have absolutely no interest in such acts, my post may still not be appreciated by some of you.

 

First, true, Raven did a real good job, but didn't made the near as perfect game that could have been made.

 

Of course, we're al asking for perfect games and such things can't happen, but there are some limits.

 

Raven released a patch that corrected may things from the 1.02 but that's not enough. Btw it brought other disturbances into the gameplay.

 

Now, there are guys who replyed in this thread who should stop with their constant "caricaturing" process and also put an end to their moral speeching.

 

Mr Crusher, you're one of them and obviously out of base.

 

It's honorable to appreciate a game and support in some kind of way the devs who made it, but you should have thought twice before posting anything like what you posted here.

 

You don't know at all what you're talking about, that's all.

 

That's the point.

 

It doesn't take months or even weeks for gamers and hardcore gamers to notice the tiniest difference brought by a patch. Generally, a few hours are already enough to notice the main changes (without talking about the ones noted in the readme ... no, stop, I must lose my sens of humor, I'm flaming here).

 

You sound like a guy who never played nor spend any minimal and decent amount of time in games that have been patched more than once. Please notice the direct attack. Of course I absolutely don't know if it is true or not, but after reading your posts, it sounds like it is.

 

Yes, there are whiners, but there are also intelligent people in the community that are worth to be trusted.

 

They played and tested the game more than what you could ever had thought of. They even played the game more for a concern about the sake of gameplay and interest of the game among the community than for their own pleasure.

 

So please, at least, trust them.

 

There are some points that have nothing to do with taste but more with common sense and, sorry to say that, experience.

 

Someone, please create a really cool game, and call it REALITY! NOt enough people seem to spend time there anymore.

 

And thus....the downfall as modern civilization as we know it....leading to the "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away....a bunch of folks became obsessed with a game, and stopped bathing...

 

Get a grip. Do your homework, pay more attention to your wives (or husbands, as the case may be) and remember, it's a distraction, not a way of life!

 

Err... I really don't understand what does this stands for.

 

Is it an unmasked flame directed towards the community or what ?

 

I hope you're not making such a dumb statement as complaining players should get a life. Tell me you're not.

 

If it's true, and only if it's true, since I have absolutely no problem with you, you should strongly reconsider your point of view about the community.

 

What's the problem with players that are addicted to one or more games who sometimes feel the need to complain about game flaws ?

 

Sorry to say that but when I'm only surrounded by "Yes-Yes" people, I generally think that there's something wrong.

 

I know a very few players, and in fact nearly none except some guys I saw on TV coverages, are so addicted to games that they merely lost any kind of life outside their screen and their virtual environment.

 

Sure, some of the ones who are complaining are obviously players that never tried to think once why some choices were made by the devs and things like that, but come on, in some kind of ways even I can understand them.

 

And it's true that many changes are hardly understandable.

 

It's as same as if you were used to have a green cube in your room posed on a shalf, but asked to have it being changed to red, and finally you were given a red sphere.

 

Sometimes, we even dare to wonder if there are guys at Raven who thought about what would the consequences of such changes would provoke and if some testers, still at Raven, even tried the new patch more than an hour.

 

Now, if that was not true, if this is not what you're thinking BlindJedi, then please don't even take care of what I wrote.

 

Well, thanks for reading, hope you've enjoyed.

 

And if someone here feels flamed, well... serves his right.