Please, Don't Kill This Game!

[FW_anty_kryste]

aye, i admit to being a bitter anti-social, as the past 3 decades has taught me that those who shout the loudest, rarely have much to say, and those remain quiet often have the best intentions. thus is the cause, in my opinion, of many problems in human life. tis why Bush and Bin Laden are such "well known" figures. tis why, aside from the Pope, the most "well known" religious figures are usually money/power hungry evangelists... in the meantime, the people who actually try to help others are too busy helping to climb up on a soap box. there are plenty of good people in the world, but many never speak up. perhaps that is every bit as bad as those who speak out in hopes of personal gain, even if it means a personal loss for another. the same idea was brought forth long ago, when Buddhism reached Japan. the "old" way, was the belief that enlightenment was obtained, and the goal complete, upon an individual's passage into Nirvana. the old evolved, through the human desire to help others, into the "new" idea, that true enlightenment is not complete when one finds it for theirself, but only after they spend time and effort trying to help others find "the way". so, which idea is right? who knows... perhaps neither. should people go out of their way to help others, or should we simply be concerned with ourselves? who knows? life never came with a "how to" book, regardless of how you regard religious scriptures. we are left to do what we feel is right, if we so choose, and i feel that defending the initial release of this game is important, so i am here...

 

now, i guess i can reiterate the point that i am not defending any changes made in the 103 patch, except the addition of EAX support, as this is the ONLY change which actually "fixed" anything in the game for me. i am not trying to push to "fix" anything which is not broken. there are still a few, although likely minor, bugs to be cleaned out of the game. i think that is not a hard statement to which we can mostly agree, but the idea that we must "alter" the game to ft the mindsets of the players before addressing the "technical" issues... well, it's jsut beyond me, i guess. i would prefer to see the game finished before it is picked apart. i would like to never have a saber perpetually "hang" in mid air after being thrown, but will i ever get that fix? now, it is most likely i will not. why? because more people were concerned with being able to dictate or lobby ideas of how the game should have been designed from the start. this is not good. at the same time, those who would push for alterations before fixes probably feel like they are doing what is "best" for the community, but who can say he/she has the voice of everyone who does not speak?

 

i have more interest in the pointless poll then the conversations on this page. i have said, more than once, that my "discussions" (yes, i use the wrod loosely here) are born from boredom as much as anyting else. i don't live on the boards, but i glance at them once or twice a day. i pay most attention to the nubmers, which have now gone from a 3:1 support to a 5:1 support in favor of a saber friendly (not "saber only") game. okay, so paying attenion to polls can be construed as being pathetic, so i will admit to spending a little time each day being pety for the purpose of... hell, what is my purpose? i forgot!

 

i like that the polls get more attention than the boards. i like that not everyone has to write a speech in order to express their own opinions as to whether they feel this is a "shooter" or a "sabers" game. some may call for a balance, but who can say what the balance should be? which of us "non-dev" fans should have the most say in the matter? i don't want my opinions to change the game from what i see as the original goal. my only real complaint with Raven was the decision to second-guess theirselves and implement the JK style of Light/Dark powers over their initially intended use of the "acroos the board" MotS system. this is a game about, basically, a rouge Jedi/mercenery... YES, this means Kyle uses guns! i have already said i like the guns, but i don't want them to have to be a huge focus for the game. considering tha "fact" that Raven and Lucasarts "warned" everybody that this was going to be a "different" game, i don't think anyone should have the voice or influence to be able to change this game into another Q3 clone.

 

did George, himself, lay down the plans for this game? i doubt it, as he was a bit more busy making a movie. did he create the Jedi foundation? yes, he did. i guess the only way i can make my point any differently is through a hypothetical...

 

Star Wars: Master Yoda (pc game)! but wait, Yoda is a die-hard jedi, who rarely uses a saber, uses no dark force powers, and (i'm guessing) would NEVER use a rocket launcher... so who would ever want to play the game? how long before the "competitive" arena decided Yoda needed to be able to lay down trip-mines or spray a group of opponents with a heavy repeater? "if i can't turn this character into myself, then why would i want to play it?" attitudes, in my opinion, are not what is "best" for the community.

 

i was given an answer to one of my main questions, so i'll take a very brief moment to discuss it...

 

MODs, as pointed out to me, are less likely to ahve a place in the competitive arena. okay, i can see the logic in that. so, the idea of a Dark Forces MOD would be less than accomodating for the competitive gamers (who have as much right to a good game as the rest of us). so...

 

how about a Dark Forces expansion pack...

 

no force, no sabers, no Jedi... add more guns, explosives, or whatever a die-hard merc (which is all Kyle was back then) would want to throw at a group of stormtroopers. i would buy the game, i would play the game, i would most likely enjoy the game, but i would NEVER say "this would be BETTER if it had sabers and force powers". i would appreciate the game for what it is. in the same sense, i would not mind an updated Q3 based version of SotE, either. another non-Jedi game. to push to make JediKnight2 into a "balanced" saber/guns game goes agaisnt the idea of a Jedi game. Jk was "balanced" in the sense that the saber was no more or less powerful than a blaster. my favorite weapons in JK, in order, were the saber, the st-rifle, the repeater, and the rail-detonator. i enjoyed the guns, but prefered the saber. gee... i just can't say that enough, but people respond as if i'm a "gunner" basher because i don't want JK2 to be a "shooter" game.

 

we all wanted something different from this game, i suppose, and we can't all be made happy... so far we can mostly agree that removing the nerfs and tweaks from the 103 patch would be a good start... right? leave in the EAX support, fix the Saber-Throw and Taunt issues, and give the public a little time to absorb what was offered before declaring a crusade to alter it. the first patch, in my opinion, simply tried to do too much too soon, because the community has, more often than not, expressed their need for haste... which, as we all know, makes waste.

 

"cheapness" is an issue which is based solely on opinion. my calims that certain individual may have been too drawn to a "cheap" move comes not only from his own declarations, but from personally witnessing the use of DFA excessively in a clan recruiting/try out game against a potential member. for what reason could this person have had to use a move, decreed "cheap" by himself, so often in a "try out" for a new recruit? what does that say about the player? what does that say about the group? what does that say to the guy standing in the corner wondering why an honorable Jedi would feel the need for such a display... okay, so nobody here is an actual Jedi, but i play the game so i can PLAY as a JEDI! we are all childish if we are here to play games, but neither "childish", nor "passionate", necessarily translates into "immature".

 

there is an old cliche... it's not who wins or loses, it's how you play the game... waht a great attitude, i say... but there are others who think "score dictates victory" for all, because games are about scoring, and not about the way you play. in sports, do we ahve the same attitude? should an ice-skater be allowed to drop kick another just so they can get a higher score? if an ice-skater lobbied to allow "full contact distractions" in competition, simply so they could throw tomatoes on the ice during anothers performance, would that skater be regarded as a "leader" or simply a cheap, self absorbed, over-competitive "waste of time"?

 

okay, so i don't care about the score. that's my right. somebody else DOES. that's their right. now, who's to say which of us , if either, has the right to the most influence over what this game should be, or how it should be played? neither, i say. i don't want to be a leader. i just want a good game, whether it is against friends or simply bots, depends on those who play the game, and not the game itself. so, that is my downfall, i guess. i don't care about competition, i care about having fun, therefor my opinion of this game means nothing.

 

whether or not i put on a "good show" for the public in these forums means nothing to me. as i said before, i waste time writing, but am only interested in the opinion of waht others think of this game... should it be a Jedi game, or just a guns/swords/magic game? i get what i want to know from the top of the page, and anything below that is probably best fit to line the bottom of a bird cage. i'm not here to make friends, or enemires, but i am here to say what i believe. i say it, people don't like it, they respond, i respond because i have nothing better to do for a few minutes.

[Spider AL]

the idea that we must "alter" the game to ft the mindsets of the players before addressing the "technical" issues... well, it's jsut beyond me

 

Let's be clear, the patch was what "altered" the gameplay. I for one just want to see certain positive aspects of 1.02 restored, such as more useful sabres.

 

from personally witnessing the use of DFA excessively in a clan recruiting/try out game against a potential member. for what reason could this person have had to use a move, decreed "cheap" by himself, so often in a "try out" for a new recruit?

 

AHA! Here lies the rub, you've finally come out and said something to shed light on your dark and mystery-enshrouded reasons for starting this argument.

 

To answer your "hypothetical-esque" question, the hypothetical person may well have been using the technique to see if the potential member would catch on and use a counter-attack to this one technique. The person in question may never have caught on, the penny may never have dropped, and the hypothetical person may have concluded that the hypothetical prospective member was insufficiently adaptable to join the hypothetical clan.

 

Just a hypothetical answer mind you.

 

The hypothetical person in question may well be wondering currently why the observer didn't ask the hypothetical person after the game for the reasons behind his single-move. There was plenty of hypothetical opportunity. Instead the observer is currently posting on some public forums about this hypothetical situation, and refusing to discuss it anywhere else.

 

The hypothetical person might be quite nonplussed by this, having thought that the observer was much more mature, having known them for almost four years now.

 

to push to make JediKnight2 into a "balanced" saber/guns game goes agaisnt the idea of a Jedi game.

 

Actually, as I've said many times (and you haven't responded at all to this point mind you) The game is currently imbalanced AGAINST sabres. They are LESS USEFUL in a FFA and CTF game, than guns. So balancing the game would make it MORE of a Jedi game, not less.

 

should an ice-skater be allowed to drop kick another just so they can get a higher score?

 

Wow! That might actually make ice-skating a less tedious sport!

 

would that skater be regarded as a "leader" or simply a cheap, self absorbed, over-competitive "waste of time"?

 

I presume you're referring to me, at least inclusively. Frankly I'm disgusted at the insults, a lot like tomatoes, you've been throwing at me in this thread. (Indirectly or not, they're offensive remarks.)

 

Never mind though, I'll get over the feeling of being slapped in the face, and if you want to discuss this like a pair of adults instead of on the "bicker-board of doom," My door is always open.

 

May the Force be with you, my old friend.

[Nathan Wind]

wow, im offended and disgusted.

 

are you done with your soap box hero worship?

 

this was just crap.

 

i dont even know how to respond. it took me 4 attempts to read past your misplaced hero worship to actually get to the end of your post. and all in all , both posts show how much of a petty person you are. i cant believe you think you think you can dismiss me or spider like that. if george lucas is this god you make him out to be, i seriously doubt you are his prophet. you do not know anything about his intentions.

 

hell, i would say episode 2 doesnt even stay true to his intentions.

 

to illustrate what you are trying to argue (and what im against), its like buying a painting from an artist, only to have him, years later, come inside your house and totally paint over your favorite part of his artwork under the guise of "improvement". this new thing was what he meant after all.

 

at least lucas put "special edition" after he made those changes to his original movies. if he didnt make it a new product completely, it would have been the same thing.

 

it is stealing.

 

at what point does the owner loose control over his art? the moment of purchase. then nobody should get credit, nor be able to alter the artwork in anyway. if it is, its stealing. thats my argument.

 

you are an as s.