Can animations be modified without the SDK?

[GreyWing]

So far I haven't gotten very far into the game and only have the first saber stance. I'm not sure if things improve or not, but so far I'm not impressed at all with Kyle's fighting moves; they're slow, deliberate, and very ugly. It doesn't look at all like a martial art or some mystical Jedi technique; Kyle just looks like a weak old man grunting and swinging his way through thousands of storm troopers.

 

I think I can get access to a handful of motion captures in LightWave 3D format of a Japanese swordsman doing a few Aikido and Kengo techniqes. I've also got DVDs of a bunch of classic black and white samurai flicks and I plan on making a few motions of my own. With the current information we have about the JK2 code (which is extremely little) is it possible to do our own animations? I know we can make levels, skins, models, etc., but you can't really make a complete mod with such limited access to the game's resources. My plan is to make a new "Samurai Style" Saber stance that is quick, effective, and deadly but also looks good as well. It won't be fancy and over the top so don't expect backflips and all that other crap. Just a complex, professionally styled fighting system.

[Absath]

You can't do new animations with the SDK. You need Softimage, a VERY expensive (or very large download....), aprofessional animation program, that would allow you to make new anims. Once you get Softimage, if you can manage it, you would have to know what you are doing, as it is a very complicated process. So for the most part:we can't do new animations.

 

-Abs

[Faye Ying]

uh........ the saber fighting in jk2 WAS already based on that.

a guy named Luke LaFontaine was hired by Raven to choreograph the saber fights. its based on a mixture of kendo and western sword fighting. a touch of iaido is noticable from the lunge slash kyle can do when using the "blue" saber style

 

if you want proof, here it is, from SFI (Sword Forum International)

 

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2926

 

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1678

 

your idea of pulling stunts out of samurai flicks to make it realistic is stupid and ignorant

 

professionally styled fighting system

sorry, i think their reproductions is more professionally styled than your home-made animations.

 

and what i like to know, is wtf, is kengo? i think you meant kendo.

 

you say its slow, deliberate, ugly? i think japanese sword arts WERE deliberate. slow? how the hell was it slow!? unless you left your saber style in "red" and didnt' know how to change it.

 

and also, if you can do more than just walk in a straight line and press primary fire, you'll see a different assortment of cuts from kendo if you know anything of it to begin with.

 

if you don't see any truth in my words, i suggest you drop your lightsaber and opt for a blaster. you can't go wrong with point, shoot, point, shoot, point, shoot.

[Epimetheus]

Ouch. That's a wee bit harsh, isn't it? But then again, you really MUST explore a game thouroughly before you can start whining about how it sucks. Maybe you should finish the game first.

[GreyWing]

Ok, I see we've got some newbies here. First of all, Softimage isn't THE 3D animation system, it's A 3D animation system, there are hundreds of others that can do the job. Off the top of my head: LightWave 3D, 3D Studio Max, Rhino 3D, even MilkShape would probably work and most of them can import/export motion paths to and from Softimage. For you to say something like that it’s obvious that you don’t know much about 3D animation, but that doesn’t apply to everyone

 

Once you get Softimage, if you can manage it, you would have to know what you are doing, as it is a very complicated process.

 

Again, you don't need Softimage, and the process isn't all that complicated. There's plenty of mods out there for Q3A engine games and many others that replace the animations: DoD, CS, Urban Terror, TFC, etc. etc. If JK2 uses key framed animations then it shouldn't be too hard and I probably won't even need to do any additional motion captures

 

Second, I never said JK2 sucked, I'd just like to make a few changes to it and I'm wondering if that's possible given the fact that there hasn't been much info released about the game. Faye, Kengo is a typo (obviously), it means something like "Sword Master" but that's not the context I was trying to use it in (I meant to write kendo). When I said "deliberate" I was referring to the speed. If you know anything about Aikido or any other philosophically based martial art, you'd know that slow, deliberate moves won't get you very far. Being slow and ponderous isn't what you want, it's better to be comfortible enough with your technique so that you can execute attack and defense seemlessly without thinking. That's the effect I'm going for. I realize they probably used a few moves from kendo or whatever else for this game and that's fine, I still want to make my own.

 

your idea of pulling stunts out of samurai flicks to make it realistic is stupid and ignorant

 

Lol, you're one to talk about being ignorant! I'm not trying to pull "stunts" out of any movie, have you ever heard of Akira Kurosawa? His films are about as authentic as you can get. What about the Miyamoto Musashi trilogy? That's kind of like the Japanese version of Star Wars (set in Ancient Japan though, not space) and it's one of the movies Star Wars itself was based on. The fight scenes are about as accurate as you can get on the type of film they were using and to this day I'm amazed and some of the things they were able to pull off. Besides, movies aren't the only source I plan to use. Like I said, I might be able to get access to some motion capture samples from a friend of mine back east and I've still got a few other ideas to use.

 

I've studied Asian philosophy and martial arts for many years now and always wanted to incorprate a little bit of that knowledge into a game in some way. JK2 looks like a game I might want to try and I'm here to get some information before I start. So please, if you don't have any comments that might actually help with the mod, just keep your mouth shut. Little temper tantrums like the one Faye threw are pointless and they just fill the board up with more and more spam and hatespeak. If you're looking for a fight, seriously, go somewhere else. No one here is interested.

[sithlord-II]

ok here's my take on the softimage situation

the animation system for JK2 was set up within softimage, and compiled into a .gla file for the skeleton. As it stands, we do not know how to modify that gla file properly, and as softimage was used by raven, and they have stated for animations you could not modify such animations without softimage, we draw the conclusion that you need softimage. Sure, otehr 3d packages may be able to make the animations etc but if you cannot use those animations for jediknight 2, or export the file into a useable form, you are S.O.L on those parts.

[oddjob: A-Team]

Oh, and Rhino 3D is a nurbs modeler, not an animation package.

[V!G]

sithlord-II is right if all of the 3d programs you mentioned don't have a gla exporter then you HAVE TO USE softimage. Lets just hope that someone comes up with a GLA exporter for MAX sometime soon.

 

Oh and milkshape does not support weighted joint animations. So it is out of the question for making aminations. Maybe CharaterFX would be better suited to work as a animation program for "home brew" animations. But I am nost sure it suports mo cap so I think it might even be out of the Question... I think max is our only hope.

 

V!G

[Faye Ying]

hahhahaa, temper tantrum? hardly. i was merely speaking facts.

 

the use of a katana or shinai is very different from that of a lightsaber. (although shinai is probably as close as you can get in terms of weight distribution and shape)

 

a katana is curved with a single edge.

a lightsaber is much more like a shorter european broadsword with two edges.

 

i said they were deliberate. i never said they were slow.

all combat oriented "jutsu" is deliberate. you try to go in a fight and do kata and you'll get your ass handed to you.

just like trying to fight using forms you learned in TKD or kungfu. it doesn't work.

 

i kinda think Mr. LaFontaine already incorperated as much from eastern sword arts as he possibly could.

 

if you thought i was expressing and projecting hate, you're mistaken.

 

disagreeing is very different from hate.

[GreyWing]

I'm pretty sure LightWave can handle mo cap. It came with some sample character animations in a folder titled "mo cap" so I'm pretty sure it could do the job. Also, I was browsing through the files here and found a download called "cool moves" which replaced the rolling animations and a few other moves. So maybe it's not so impossible to edit the animations Also, if I'm not mistaken, Rhino does support animation and has plugins for different ray tracers, etc. so theoretically, if we had the importers, it could handle the job as well.

 

Speaking of importers, isn’t there an XSI Importer in the tools folder? I’m not sure if it imports meshes and animations, but if not that’s no problem. I’ve got a buddy who does a lot of stuff with 2D and 3D animation and I’m sure he can get me a copy of XSI for WinNT free of charge If XSI can handle GLA animations directly (with a plugin or something), then I’m in business.

 

And now, in response to Faye Ying...

hahhahaa, temper tantrum? hardly. i was merely speaking facts.

Of course it was a tantrum, I made some suggestions about a few changes I had in mind and you acted like a dick and starting slinging insults. No one asked for that. As for your ideas about “a katana having a single curved edge”, I think that’s also a pretty pointless statement. What do you care what type of style I use in the mod, are you making it? If I think a stance or an attack is cool looking and effective I’m putting it in, simple. The goal here is to have a more stylish, Asian kind of feel to saber fighting, not to repeat what’s already been done. I’ve already begun designing a new saber (and about six other new weapons including railguns, sniper rifles, Gundam style Mechs, etc., etc.) that would accommodate this new style and I may even add a completely new episode if I have time.

i said they were deliberate. i never said they were slow

Yeah that’s right, you didn’t say they were slow, I did, that’s one of the reasons I’m changing them (if I can). Like I said, if you don’t like how the mod turns out, don’t download it.

just like trying to fight using forms you learned in TKD or kungfu. it doesn't work

What in the world are you talking about? I never said anything about forms and it’s obvious they wouldn’t work well in a fight because that’s not what they were designed for. Needless to say, if the goal here is to make more effective system there won’t be kata, luohan, or anything that isn’t directly related to combat. I’m sure the main character did enough training before he took a saber into his hands and went out fighting.

i kinda think Mr. LaFontaine already incorperated as much from eastern sword arts as he possibly could.

This isn’t about what Mr. LaFontaine has done; it’s about what Mr. Greywing wants to do. I don’t care about his incorporations, that’s why I’m making my own. See, that’s why we call mods MODS, because they’re modifications not reiterations.

if you thought i was expressing and projecting hate, you're mistaken.

No, actually I thought you were expressing ignorance and hostility, two things that won’t help this project or any other. If this is the only kind of advice you know how to give then don’t waste your time posting follow-ups to this thread. As I said in the previous post, "No one here is interested."

[ALIEN_JL]

New anims would be nice... (nothing big) but for

example way how those character hold pistol

in JK2 is ridiculous

 

Anyway does anyone here know how much does

Softimage cost ??

 

Is it more expensive than Maya UL ? (it is

definetely not more advanced)

 

If i member right maya ul is around 6.-7000$

[Anavel Gato]

Alias just sliced the price for Maya Complete in half to $1999. If you're a student you can get it even cheaper.

Softimage is waaaaay more expensive and has a steep learning curve.

[Madjai]

that "new moves" thing was just replacing the roll animation with animations already in the game but not used by kyle.

[inbredyokel]

l would suggest you play a bit further into the game (and explore multiplayer) before you decide you hate the lightsaber as it is. From what you've said, it sounds like you haven't even used light or heavy stances and you may not even have the patch. With practice, it gets incredibly fun, even though early on it may seem like a clumsy assortment of pointless motions.

 

Also keep in mind that this IS a game. You can incorporate all the martial arts that you want, but just remember that the existing saber was created after extensive experimentation to see what does and doesn't work in a computer game environment. Do what you will, but remember that you'll never come near the grace and complexity of actual martial arts as long a your interface is confined to a keyboard and mouse.

But then again, I wouldn't mind new moves that simply look a little cooler but don't do anything new

[MacD]

Greywing, that's a way cool idea! Go for it! Especially if you can get mo-cap from some-one who knows what he's doing (not implying that Raven did a bad job [hell, when you finish the game, the lichtsabercombat rules!], but they had different priorities when choosing animations).

 

Anyway, what modeling programs do you have (acces to)? 3dsmax does animation (as well as mo-cap base anims), as does Lightwave, maya and Softimage. The trick here is animating the bones in a correct format, which seems to make Softimage neccesarry....unless someone has written a plugin...which I kinda doubt...

 

Still, all the best! If you need any help, get in touch

[Dark Cloak]

I like this Greywing person...girl...guy...don't matter. They know how to handle people correctly. And I like the mod idea. Good job. Go for it!