9/11 May Have All Been Planned By Our Own Government...

[SSO_DarthVader_]

I repeat, I ain't prejuidice against other countries. I just get annoyed when someone steps onto my turf. BTW, I have been patriotic, but not "as" much since 9/11.

 

Plus, I always asked God to bless America before 9/11, I'm Christian. So when I say it, it ain't just a motto, its something I truely believe. Casting assumptions isn't such a wise thing, exspecially if you don't even know the person.

 

Darth Clem, it takes a lot of guts to say what you've been saying. I'm assuming your from England? England is one of top countries in the world, that has "really" made a lot of dumb decisions, in history. So you have absolutely no room to talk.

[ZBomber]

*cough* burning down the white house * cough*

[Clem]

true .... englands ****ed up .... we were once like u ... we had out empire ... we had our way .... but we were made to wake up .... this u must do

 

im patriotic ... i like england

 

but i do not overlook its faults

[ZBomber]

Originally posted by Jubatus

 

Asking to have us silenced is worse than any criticism in this thread. Some fella once said something to the effect of: 'Ladies and gentlemen, I find your oppinions to be the worst babble, but I'll defend your right to utter them with my life!' - Freedom of speech, will you deny us that?

 

I'm just saying this is getting out of hand.

[SSO_DarthVader_]

Neither do I, I believe many Americans, including myself. Think the Veteniam war, was none of our business.

 

However, I DO support the War on Terrorism. Sooner or later, terrorism will only get worst, and we're the main target. So the best time is now.

 

 

 

PS: ZBomber, I do agree. But I think this should stay unlocked, so people can cast there opinions. But "if" it goes to a point when people are literally posting messages with caps and lines of cussing/vulgar, then that would be a good time to lock the thread. (I hope it doesn't happen though)

[ZBomber]

Uncle Sam Wants you!

[Clem]

so when it was every1 else it dont matter but now its u ... its a big problem

 

what happened to the all helping america

 

and also ... they call it a war on terrorism

 

but its really just an excuse to get rid of those we dont like

 

is there ANY proof that osama planned that bombing? ive neva heard it

[ZBomber]

we found videos.

[SSO_DarthVader_]

I never watched a lot of the news, or memorized all the evidences. But from what I know, we've found people who admitted that they did the terrorist acts, and Osama Bin Laden himself, said he did it (on TV).

 

Why would someone, risk his life against a super power, with a price on his head, that says "Dead or Alive", just to pull off a prank?

 

Like I said, there are other evidences. But I don't know all of them.

[Goten583]

I can't take this passivism from some of these posts. Ture it's a nice idea and all, but it can get cha killed:( .

[Clem]

as u said .... y would he risk the wrath of the almighty god .... i mean america

 

 

im sure theres some SERIOUSLY dodgy evidence about ... but i dont think theres nething substantial

[Jubatus]

Originally posted by SSO_DarthVader_

Plus, I always asked God to bless America before 9/11, I'm Christian. So when I say it, it ain't just a motto, its something I truely believe. Casting assumptions isn't such a wise thing, exspecially if you don't even know the person.

 

Don't even get me started on religion, especially the vast hypocritical majority of Christianity.

[Kurgan]

No, I haven't read that French guy's book, but man, of all the silly half-baked ideas.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know, the US is a big huge conspiracy melting pot to a ton of people, in the US or not, but c'mon.

 

Why would the US government shoot itself in the foot and engage in a massive coverup just so they could attack some pissant country that everybody already wanted to blow up anyway? Why blow up some huge buildings and planes, causing untold suffering and billions of dollars of damage. Let's play the conspiracy card, the US already had enough reason to go after Bin Laden (USS Cole, embassy bombings of past years, threats, etc). Even then, having a bomb go off harmlessly outside the Justice Department would have been perfect. But blowing up the WTC was overkill for any conspirator. Was it done to rally support for Bush? C'mon, the US lost what, 200 soldiers in the Persian Gulf War? Compared to a few thousand civilians and tons of property damage with huge economic reprucussions, just to go after a country with a much weaker military than Iraq... um, okay.

 

Did anybody read the recent statements from the NEA? To paraphrase, they said that in schools, teachers should not (when discussing the events of 9/11) say that Al Qaeda or Osama Bin Laden was responsible for the attacks. They said that until "legal authorities" have given "reliable evidence" that we can't say who did it.

 

What legal authorities are they talking about? George W. Bush? Tony Blair? The US Supreme Court? The UN security counsil? Colin Powel? John Ashcroft? WHO????

 

In fact, as far as I know, just about all of those people have said "Osama/Al Qaeda" did it.

 

Anyhow, that's not the way legal stuff is done in the US system anyway. You don't just see a legal authority and he says "I've got evidence" and they haul you off to jail. No, there's a TRIAL. You are presumed innocent until proven guilty. When you're proven guilty (Or "not guilty") based on the evidence, witnesses, etc, THEN you're sentenced. In acts of international terrorism, it's usually more difficult to do that, but I don't know why the NEA is setting these oddball standards. I think they just have a political axe to grind.

 

Let me guess, it's because they're far left liberals, who think "Bush stole the election" and that the US is a "right-wing Imperialist power." ; p

 

The point is, the evidence that we have points to Al Qaeda, sure it's not perfect 100%, but c'mon. Osama Bin Laden has been saying he wants to blow up the US for the last decade or so. He's been linked to other terrorist acts. The human rights abuses coming out of Afgahnistan have been reported (by groups like RAWA) for years. The US has gone to war for less than what happened here. The conspiracy theories just don't account for those kinds of "little details" most of the time.

 

There are people out there that say that they have no problem with bombing Bin Laden or overthrowing Afgahnistan for their involvement with the terrorist attacks of 9-11. Their only problem is that they want it to be decided by some "international body" (the UN security council?) instead of just the US and its allies. But in the end, what difference does it really make? When did "international law" become the sole arbitrator of justice? We're not a one world government (yet)... other countries are patriotic and defend themselves, why not the US?

 

Sorry for the rant, but really...

[Absurd]

The Boston Tea Party was composed of American revolutionaries dressed as Indians.

[Goten583]

He was part of the first bombing of the trade center, thats part of the reason we were looking for him before 9/11. We didn't get him however because of our leadership at the time.

[SSO_DarthVader_]

VERY interesting post Kurgan. I agree with you 100%.

[Clem]

i want to blow up america

 

(does this mean the next terrorist act will be attributed to me?)

 

ALOT of people want to blow up america .... or maybe a specific group of americans in the buildings

 

we just dont have the facts

 

we cant make judgement ....

 

but thats not the american way is it

[Kurgan]

The other conspiracy angle is: "Oh, they did it so that John Ashcroft and the Justice Department could crack down on civil liberties."

 

Riiiiiight. Terrorist attacks happen all the time, just nothing this big in a long, long time. The changes thus far have been small and groups like the Heritage Foundation (according to leftist anti-Nuclear people, this group "controls the US" sure, whatever) have opposed it at every turn and denounced people like Ashcroft openly. So either the conspiracy is not being planned very well, is being run by people totally incompetent (and unable to keep it secret), etc.

 

Sure, you have stuff like Watergate, but c'mon, you didn't have thousands of deaths to account for there. The stakes are so much higher if it WERE a conspiracy and it WERE discovered to be real.

 

Besides, which civil liberties do we want to protect? Some people say that American citizens shouldn't be allowed to own firearms or discuss religion in public places or protest abortion or use certain words that others find 'offensive'. But then they turn around and say we should be able to do this or that and its "facism" if we restrict that. Some people even talk out both sides of their mouths. Again, it sounds like a desperate attempt to find a huge smoking gun where there isn't one.

 

Careful Darth Clem, what you said could be interpreted as "Hate Speech." The way I see it, unless you actually try, it's no crime (though its a mean and nasty thing to say), but some people would want to put you in prison for saying that. Think about it...

[SSO_DarthVader_]

Clem, America "isn't" THAT stupid to just rely on that one source "I blew up America!", thats only 1 of the sources.

 

Maybe in your tiny country of England does these things. But we have orginizations that investigate these kind of things. If you have forgotten, we are the most advance country in armed forces and investigations. I highly doubt, that the US, like orginizations such as the CIA and the FBI, would just rely on 1 source, and not investigate further.

[Clem]

im not supporting the conspiracy theory ... but also i do not support the binladen theory without evidence

 

if u provide proof id back u (not that it matters) to go after him

 

not the whole bloody country that hes in however

 

but its strange how within hours this scapegoat was produced and no1 has questioned it since

[Clem]

Originally posted by SSO_DarthVader_

Clem, America "isn't" THAT stupid to just rely on that one source "I blew up America!", thats only 1 of the sources.

 

Maybe in your tiny country of England does these things. But we have orginizations that investigate these kind of things. If you have forgotten, we are the most advance country in armed forces and investigations. I highly doubt, that the US, like orginizations such as the CIA and the FBI, would just rely on 1 source, and not investigate further.

 

finding evidence takes time

 

there was no time between attacks and accustations therefore im not inclined to believe the accusations

[Kurgan]

vast hypocritical majority of Christianity.

 

If you are referring to some past experience of being persecuted for your belief system, I'm sorry to hear you were discriminated against.

 

However, what "vast hypocritical majority" are you referring to? People in your neighborhood? Southern Baptists? Roman Catholics? Presbyterians? Methodists? Mormons? Liberal Christians? American Christians in general? The Christians in Libya?

 

You're referring to a couple billion people there....

 

About the evidence:

 

finding evidence takes time

 

there was no time between attacks and accustations therefore im not inclined to believe the accusations

 

George W. Bush claimed he had evidence. Obviously, if he did, his other officials would know about it. If they had intelligence, it came from the CIA/FBI. Tony Blair claims Bush showed him the evidence and it convinced him. Other public officials have said the same. Maybe its the "appeal to authority" fallacy, but the big important people all say that it's reliable. Until Osama can be brought to trial though, I guess you can't argue unless you have access to those secret files.

 

I guess in 20-50 years when the documents are released through Freedom of Information, we can see what it was, unless its publically announced after his trial/death.

 

The problem is, Bin Laden doesn't WANT to come in for questioning. The Afgahn government first claimed they didn't have him, then they claimed they did, but they didn't want to give him up, then they said they'd only give him up if he could have a Muslim jury/trial in a Muslim country that wasn't US allied. We rejected their claims, so we went to war, they still haven't given him up. He's a TERRORIST, he has TERRORISTS and rich guys protecting him. Obviously, its going to be pretty tough when people are willing to die to keep him from trial. Now if he were a ruler, who was really unpopular and wasn't assasinated (somebody like S. Malosovik) it'd be much easier to get. Its sort of like Saddam Huessein. If you want to bring him to trial, you have to fight through his army first, since he's a big powerful dictator, not just some petty thug who robbed a liquor store.

[Goten583]

im not supporting the conspiracy theory ... but also i do not support the binladen theory without evidence

 

How much do you need???

we get plenty of evidence on our news stations. Theres no conspiracy to make up stuff just so we can get this guy. Besides do you think Osama doesn't want to admit that he's involved. He's so glad about it he could puke. He wouldn't want a plea bargain if we caught him alive, he'd die for his radical ways, and he will.

[Clem]

not if u cant find him

 

are u gonna bomb every country hes rumoured to be in?

 

u have all this amazing power ... and all these amazing organizations ... and u cant find 1 man?

[Mafia_Jabba]

mabe thats because bin laden was noted for saying "I'd like to see those towers destroyed" and he was linked to previous bombings on the world trade center.

 

Man you can point out Europeans on this forum easy. Those who say America is....and not America is because...

 

Lmao...BTW I think America is the best country in the world. But that should be the same for every citizen in their own country supporting their own country right?

 

America advanced fast, but that was mainly because of natural resources and industrial revolution *started in England*. However, America doesn't just bomb to bomb morons. Cmon think you Europeans.

 

 

lmao that was a stupid statement...you can't find one man...one man is much harder to spot than to say TRAINING CAMPS...a SUPPORTIVE GOVERNMENT *taliban* and ORGANIZATIONAL FACILITIES IN AFGHANISTAN....again...your not thinking...500 is much easier to find than 1...plus in such a region as Afghanistan..think...cmon think!