SSO_DarthVader_ Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 You want evidence Darth Clem? Check this page out... http://www.september11news.com/OsamaEvidence.htm You'll hopefully find everything you want to know, on this page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSO_DarthVader_ Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Clem, I can bet all my possessions, that England CAN'T do a better job, or even come close, to what American is trying to do. Its so easy for you to say, isn't it? It's also amazing, how the British Empire, controled 1/3 of the World at one time, yet lost ALMOST ALL of it. That sure is worse then we Americans loosing a fugitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 PS: American's sing "God Bless America" while British folks sing "God Save the Queen" what's wrong with that? It doesn't have to mean you're a blindly patriotic automaton. Most people look to an IDEAL of what they want their country to be. Is the majority really "powerless" in the face of politicians? I've heard the exact opposite argument from countless people both in public and on the 'net.... politicians are corrupt, greedy individuals who will do anything to please the masses and line their pockets with money while getting re-elected. So who's pulling the strings? Liking your country doesn't mean you like when it makes mistakes. Waving a flag doesn't mean you think your nation can do no wrong.... Remember, it's okay to disagree. Criticize the views, but don't flame the person. Happy debating... I'm off for awhile! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 ill read it some other time ... but is this tape it? and ... a letter from downing street .... which is full of the most reliable people isnt it and can ne1 spell osama bin laden and al qaeda the same way twice?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 a large chunk of the empire is still there under the queen the commonwealth is the former empire ... all the countries govern themselves (as it should be) yet they hold the queen as their head of state edit: this limited evidence u have produced .... was found LONG LONG LONG after he was fingered ... even if it is condemning (i havent read much of it) u still went straight in without evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 its well known that the u.s. was going to have oil troubles, they needed to have a secure hold on that precious black goo. the idea that anybody would do something on the level of 9, 11 for money is disgusting. but i cannot deny that it IS a possibility. i sincerely hope it isnt but i do have reason to question the us gov. did any of you know that immediately following the crisis the government FORBID radio stations all over the U.S. from playing "imagine" by John lennon? its true, the songs anti-war related theme made it dangerous. if you have people advocating war on one side and others protesting it you get another civil war on your hands. im a canadian so my opinion means little in this case, i love the protection that the U.S. gives us and the wonderful television and video games that they supply us with =D but i am proud NOT to be an american. and just a quick question for the american people out there: how many of you heard about the american plane that bombed and killed Canadian soldiers in afghanistan? i heard that it wasnt on your news or newspapers. it was all over ours. the war-machine that is the united states of america can be a scary thing, but remember that those soldiers would defend us (well most of us) if we were threatened. my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 america bombing innocents and their allies ..... and the red cross thats nothing new im afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Darth CLem...again you are misunderstanding American foreign policy: WAR ON TERRORISM!!!!!!! Al Qeda *spelling* are terrorists and we had proof of that. We are having a war on terrorists. Therefore, if you are a terrorist we are at war. We are at war with terrorists who did not do 9/11 and those who did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 ok i officially dont trust any of the bull**** you guys "hear" anymore. Yes the Canadian thing was all over the news. Obviously it was an accident. YOu actually think we would bomb allies? That's pretty ridiculous....ok.... And forbidding the Radio to play a songs....since you made that bull**** statement earlier im not sure that is true or not anymore...but if it is it falls under the presidents special nation emergency powers. I'm just wondering..why are you proud NOT to be an american? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Originally posted by Mafia_Jabba Darth CLem...again you are misunderstanding American foreign policy: WAR ON TERRORISM!!!!!!! Al Qeda *spelling* are terrorists and we had proof of that. We are having a war on terrorists. Therefore, if you are a terrorist we are at war. We are at war with terrorists who did not do 9/11 and those who did. indeed u are ...... but u dont seem to be doing nething except bombing the **** out of people u wanted to bomb the **** out of neway AL Quida (another spelling) DID NOT RUN AFGHAN ..... the taliban did .... they are bad .... but they were bombed (along with multiple innocents) under the name of a War on Terrorism Iraq is going the same way ..... strange how these are places u wanted to bomb isnt it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 i have no problem with america punishing the guilty terrorists who perpetrated the horror of 9/11. but the problem is that you can NEVER just punish the guilty, innocents are always hurt on both sides when there is a conflict. no country is perfect nor will any country EVER be perfect (look at us canadians we elected chretien =P). as i have stated i have mixed feelings about the united states. i am grateful for much of their good deeds but their brutal pursuit of justice scares the s*** out of me. so much that has been done through fighting throughout history couldve been solved through negotiations. look at the americans independence, they won it through fighting and killing. we canadians (again were nowhere near perfect but in this sence i think we had the right way of things) negotiated our independence, we still have friendly ties with the british empire but we are in no sence controlled by them. i forget who it was but somebody earlier in this thread said "blind patriotism is the scariest thing in the world" i agree. as i see it there is only one way to end conflict on this planet: discover another bigger alien race. you may laugh at this (i may too) but it stands to reason. what are countries at all? a group of ppl on the same side because.... they live together! all the nations of the world probably would unite if a larger threat was percieved on the horizon. the entire idea of racism is that "they are not like us so they are inferior because my ego doesnt want a bruising". some time later in the future i can honestly see all countries being annhilated in favour of continental governments, im not saying that this would be all that much better but it would be a step in the right direction. if were all on the same side then we wont have any more reason to fight and THAT is what i believe should be the number one goal of all countries today: end the fighting. well thats my opinion, go ahead and bash me for being some dumb canuck who drinks beer and watches hockey in his flannel coat. i just want peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 lol there you are again....misunderstanding... of course we wanted them gone...but after 9/11 they were an eminant threat. Taliban was saying they would protect al queada *spelling whatever* and would not help in taking them out. Obviously anyone who harbors those terrorists must be an enemy themselves. Don't give me any of that liberalist bull**** please. Of course we're taking them out now...they killed more than 2000 of our people. We don't want that to happen again do we. Iraq has evidence of supporting terrorists and is dangerous *we think* but obviously we need evidence and will not attack without it. Trust me we know what the hell is going on. We may make mistakes in the field sometimes but it happens. We bomb civilians but we bomb bad guys too. Accidents happen. Don't give me bull**** about we bomb civs on purpose ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PODguy87 Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 I think we can sum this up with one phrase: USA; A-OK! who agrees? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Originally posted by Mafia_Jabba ok i officially dont trust any of the bull**** you guys "hear" anymore. Yes the Canadian thing was all over the news. Obviously it was an accident. YOu actually think we would bomb allies? That's pretty ridiculous....ok.... And forbidding the Radio to play a songs....since you made that bull**** statement earlier im not sure that is true or not anymore...but if it is it falls under the presidents special nation emergency powers. I'm just wondering..why are you proud NOT to be an american? im glad to hear that you did indeed see that on the news. i had heard that there was a coverup involved but im glad to see that i was misinformed. i never assumed that you americans would bomb your allies (that would be very silly). lets face it, if you wanted our water and our moose you could come over and take them =D. the statement about the song imagine is sadly real. i wish it wasnt but that one i know for a fact was indeed true. the reason i am proud not to be american has nothing to do with my opinions of americans. i dont see much of a difference between an american man and a canadian man. i certainly cant tell just by lookin at em. the reason is because americans have a pretty bad reputation worldwide, its unfair but there are quite a few countries that will spit on you if you wear an american flag but be friendly if you sport a canadian flag. i dont really believe that canadians deserve special treatment but alas we get it. its unfair prejudice but canadians and americans are seen as very different to most of the world. i live near the border and if you saw me you wouldnt be able to tell where i was from. again no offense to americans was intended, but ill still be wearing my canadian flag pins on my backpack when i travel. edit: and i think we both may have misunderstood each other a few times. i know that you wouldnt bomb anybody but the terrorists if you had your way, but accidents will always happen and when it does its tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 I agree about being attacking by aliens and being united..Then the problem would be to unite with those aliens later. However, continental govs I dont see happening. I dont the base UN security council governments going anywhere. Too much history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 I'm sorry for being so ruthless in my posts to anyone..thats me... Canadians are kick ass btw...I mean...we would definately defend yall if anything were to happen, not just because that you guys falling would be in our bad interests but that because we are allies right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 About the "government" banning certain songs from the radio, I SWORE I read that was an "urban legend" rumor that had been spread. In fact it was not "the government" (at least not the US gov't) who banned any songs after 9-11, but in fact it was a PLAN by certain radio station corporations that had a list of songs they felt were "insensitive" and the list was "leaked out." Whether or not the songs were actually banned, I don't know. About.com has it, I could look up the link if needed. It's akin to the other (and I don't agree with it) practice of Hollywood delaying political/action thriller movies after 9-11, editing the WTC out of "Spider-Man" and other films, and stores pulling "Red Alert 2" boxes from the shelves or putting stickers of the background images of New York in flames. Stupid Political Correctness in my opinion, even if it might offend some people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 they kill 2000 americans u desecrate a whole country whos gonna be there to keep america in check Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Originally posted by Kurgan Sorry one last thing to throw in, heh (I never go away do I?), about the "government" banning certain songs from the radio, I SWORE I read that was an "urban legend" rumor that had been spread. In fact it was not "the government" (at least not the US gov't) who banned any songs after 9-11, but in fact it was a PLAN by certain radio station corporations that had a list of songs they felt were "insensitive" and the list was "leaked out." Whether or not the songs were actually banned, I don't know. About.com has it, I could look up the link if needed. It's akin to the other (and I don't agree with it) practice of Hollywood delaying political/action thriller movies after 9-11, editing the WTC out of "Spider-Man" and other films, and stores pulling "Red Alert 2" boxes from the shelves or putting stickers of the background images of New York in flames. Stupid Political Correctness in my opinion, even if it might offend some people... i dont see how it can offend people ..... but worse than those .... The petitions to change the title of the film The Two Towers ...... that is just going too far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubatus Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Originally posted by Kurgan Why would the US government shot itself in the foot just so they could attack some pissant country that everybody already wanted to blow up anyway? Read the thread; if they did it it was not only to attack a pissant country. I'll try to capture the essentials of the argument. Some inner circle within or outside the US government could have done 9/11 to justify heightened control, military funding and create a scapegoat for a downsloping economy. Think of it as a war, where sacrifices are made for the assumed greater good. A leader sometimes has to disregard morals and ethics in favour of survival and vital decisions has to be made without the knowledge of the population, because there simply isn't any realistic hope of a consensus to sacrifice due to the fact the body of a population is made up by individuals, each with their own survival instinct. A dictator can sacrifice overtly, a democracy or republic cannot, but never be fooled to believe they do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafia_Jabba Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Darth Clem is definately a lib... We desecrate a whole country by giving woman civil liberties, by freeing the country from taliban oppression and getting the terrorists out of there. By feeding the hungry with food. Please don't say we bomb civilians and blah blah blah. We did. hmm.....I ran my truck into a wall the other day *seriously* because I wanted to GET RID OF THAT DAMN WALL! gimme a break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 they kill 2000 americans u desecrate a whole country whos gonna be there to keep america in check It's relative I guess. I am not a war-monger by any means, but that's how you "beat" your enemies, you crush them. And you could argue that the country was already "desecrated" by years of war with the Soviet Union and then civil war between warlords. The Taliban may have been ruthless dogmatists and human rights violators, but they at least brought some semblance of peace to the area. That was the whole reason there was so much pressure on the US to help with the "nation building" and humanitarian aide after the planned attack on Afgahnistan. Don't leave a pile of rubble and a bunch of people that hate you after you've done your business. Supposedly most of the terrorists were from (or funded by people in) Saudi Arabia. They do some pretty barbaric things there too, but they're rich with oil and they are a US ally. Then again, so is China. That's politics for ya. The Taliban were just unlucky that they pissed us off and were left holding the ball and weren't strong enough to take us on in a full-blown war. Personally, if I had been the commander in chief, I would have tried to take out Al Qaeda using elite troops and special forces, etc. covert ops. However, I don't mind seeing the Taliban gone, I think just about everybody hated them and the way they ran things. Is it right that innocent civilians get killed in Afgahnistan by their own government or US bombs that miss their intended targets? No. That's why war is hell. Either way, good people die, I guess you just have to try to make sure the fewest innocents are killed as possible for the greater good. I'm glad I didn't have to be the one to make that terrible choice. As far as pissing people off, they sell games, today, that allow you to play as the Axis powers in WW2. They even have a game where you can man a machinegun at the Normandy invasion and gun down Allied troops as they try to take the beach. I'm sure some veterans might see those games and be offended, if they lived through it. Or how about playing as the Confederacy in games about the American Civil War? Still, nobody can deny those events REALLY HAPPENED but that the games they are based on ARE NOT REAL. Maybe we need those little reminders of our history, even if they are painful... Then again, maybe they'd realize it was just a game (even if it was a bit nasty to think that somebody is making money off of the memory of somebody's suffering) but still, you'd have to censor and suppress a lot of art and self-expression if you wanted to avoid offending anyone. Everybody's different and people are offended by different things. I say that (unless its publically funded) if you're offended by something, register your protest and boycott it, but don't force people who don't see things as you do to be banned from using/seeing the product (the free speech idea). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSO_DarthVader_ Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Talliusc, I know you didn't mean on what you said to be offensive. I like Canadians, I think they're cool guys. The USA and Canada are "sort of" what you call, two neighberhood countries that are friends, but tend to bully each other for ego . Nothing different then two guys friendly bashing on each other. Yes, its not that easy being a American while going to other countries. But hey, its a price you pay for living in a country so great as ours. Heres a interesting tid bit: I was reading some statistics, about 50% to 70% of the web (hosted sites, and such) are from the USA. If we all decided to ban the web from our country (would be hilariously stupid and funny), then the net would be a little empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 sure the taliban were ****e and terrible but u did bomb civillians and for want of a better word ..... terrorize them to get rid of the taliban .... so dont get all high and mighty with my mafia jabba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Posted August 26, 2002 Share Posted August 26, 2002 Originally posted by SSO_DarthVader_ Talliusc, I know you didn't mean on what you said to be offensive. I like Canadians, I think they're cool guys. The USA and Canada are "sort of" what you call, two neighberhood countries that are friends, but tend to bully each other for ego . Nothing different then two guys friendly bashing on each other. Yes, its not that easy being a American while going to other countries. But hey, its a price you pay for living in a country so great as ours. Heres a interesting tid bit: I was reading some statistics, about 50% to 70% of the web (hosted sites, and such) are from the USA. If we all decided to ban the web from our country (would be hilariously stupid and funny), then the net would be a little empty. 90% of the internet is porn / rubbish .... so dont think we all gonna thank the americans .... and the internet is a worldwide thing even if a server is in america .... alot of the work/design/ideas can come from newhere in the world ... so do not trust stats such as these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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