Question about the Force

[Guest Vader13]

In Ep. 4-6, all the Jedi can feel disturbances in the force and even other Jedi, like when Luke goes to Endor and Vader is on the command ship.

 

How come in Ep. 1 the Jedi can't feel Sideous when they're standing next to him?

[Guest Darth Wart]

I've wondered about that exact question myself.

 

Lucas is definitely inconsistent with that ability.

 

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Wart

 

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[Guest Darth_Simpson]

The Emperor couldnt find Yoda, and Luke and Vader sensed eachother because they were father and son!

[Guest liquidkid]

it's not an inconsistancy. jedi(or sith), if they are strong enough, can hide themselves from other jedi. jedi (or sith) sense other jedi (or sith) because they are all opened to the force. but if the jedi (or sith) closes themself to the force, then others cant sense them. this means of course that they cannot use their force abilities at all.

and darth_simpson is right about yoda. and old ben the crazy wizard was hidden too.

 

the real question is why didnt obiwan sense that quigon and maul were fighting on tatooine?!? what a chump.

 

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LiQUiDKiD

-UNcouncil Master of Insults, Supreme Chancelor's Hitman, All Around Bully.

 

P.L.U.R. <> J9K-4-LIFE <> JEDI-4-LIFE <> MCL

 

[This message has been edited by liquidkid (edited May 14, 2000).]

[Guest Acid_Rain327]

Guys, there's no lacking in consistency - let me explain:

 

First of all, Obi-Wan sensed the Alderaan thing, because for a Jedi, millions of people "crying out in terror" being "suddenly silenced", is a hard thing to miss.

Next, Vader sensed Obi-Wan's presence because he *recognized* it. It's like if you spent time with a relative, then talked to them a year later, you'd recognize their voice.

Luke and Vader could sense each other because of the biological connection they share. Luke and Leia also felt that connection, but were both unsure about what they had been feeling.

Next, Yoda and Obi-Wan hid so far away, and so carefully, so as not to be sensed by Vader and Palpatine.

Palpatine sensed the disturbance in the Force because there were new things happening, newly-attuned consciousnesses in the Force, etc.

And finally: "Hard to see the Dark Side is..."

[Guest Darth Wart]

Hold on a minute, Acid.

 

Then how does that explain that at the funeral pyre of Qui-Gon, Yoda and Mace couldn't sense Palpatine, even though he was within spittin distance?

 

And howcome you haven't emailed me? Did Kryllin get in touch with you?

 

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Wart

 

There is a complete online JPB strategy guide available at:

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[Guest liquidkid]

palpatine can hide himself by supressing his openness to the force, i tell you. no presence in the force=jedi's cant sense him.

 

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LiQUiDKiD

-UNcouncil Master of Insults, Supreme Chancelor's Hitman, All Around Bully.

 

P.L.U.R. <> J9K-4-LIFE <> JEDI-4-LIFE <> MCL

[Guest Jedi Kanigget]

Like someone mentioned before, Jedi can mask themselves from each other, so can Sith. It wouldn't be a problem for Palpatine to mask himself from the Jedi, especially since they weren't looking for him.

 

For example (This is the best way I can think of to explain this at midnight.) Say you are standing by yourself at night...you are not expecting anyone at all, but someone is near you. This someone is sneaking up on you quietly. You do not expect this person, so you do not hear the faint footsteps of this person coming upon you until it is too late.

Same goes for the Jedi and Palpatine. Or the Sith, for that matter.

 

And as someone else stated, it probably has something to do with being familiar with that person and how they register in the Force.

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[This message has been edited by Jedi Kanigget (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Guest Acid_Rain327]

That's a good way of putting it, Kanigget.

 

Anyway, Wart, I believe the poster above is correct in saying that a Jedi or Sith can limit their "open-ness" to the Force.

As in the Battle of Yavin, Luke was begining to allow the Force to partially control his actions - taking those steps into a larger universe. Vader sensed this open connection with the Force - this is what caused him to see out Skywalker, and eventually learn the pilot is his son.

As for Naboo, I think Palpatine may very well have surpressed his atunment with the Force, in order to secure himself from the 12+ Jedi in the room.

Also, the Dark Side is personified with shadows, lurking, and stealth. Therefore, it is characteristic for one who is in tune with the Light Side - note the Light Side is in such great numbers, so they're out in the open, and the Jedi that exist have probably never sensed a Sith or Dark Side-attuned individual - to not be able to sense the Dark Side.

The Light Side is one of good, and stands for what is good in the universe, so they have no need to repress their "open-ness" to the Force. Also, simply because of the characteristics of the Light Side, there is both no need and no reason to have the "good" side difficult to see.

However, the characteristics of the Dark Side cause it to be naturally difficult to sense. Evil is often times elusive, and hard to grasp.

Hope that makes sense.

[Guest obi_wan_kenobi]

you guys know who palpatine is right? i mean its impossible to miss

[Guest Darth_Talon]

Yea.....it is kinda hard to miss.....when the queen says shes going back to naboo palpatine gets a grin on his face....and during qui gon's funeral the camera focuses on him for like 10 seconds......hmm.......who could he be........

 

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"Evil will always triumph over good because good is dumb."

-Dark Helmet to LoneStar (Spaceballs)

[Guest ihatecrosswinds]

I read in one of the novels (don't remember which one), that Yoda had fought a Dark Jedi on Dagoba, and that the Dark Jedi's powers and Yoda's powers kind of neutralized each other, and that's how Yoda was able to hide from Vader and Palpatine.

 

Jayson

 

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[Guest Acid_Rain327]

Well, no offense, but the novels are worthless in contrast with the films. Lucas authorizes their publication, but he doesn't consider them linked with the films. The books are entirely independent from the films and should be viewed that way. GL doesn't draw from the novels, link the films to them, or anything - so don't base or explain anything in the films by drawing reference from the books.

 

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[This message has been edited by Acid_Rain327 (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Guest Jedi Kanigget]

Actually, the books, comics, etc. are considered the same continuum as the movies. Of course, George Lucas, being Star Wars' creator, is free to change whatever he wishes. But other than that, the books are still valid and still considered part of the Star Wars history.

 

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[Guest Wickedness]

Ya, cuz remember, Shadows of the Empire, Dash flew the Outrider, and I was VISIBLY present in the ANH:SE helicopter shot of Mos Eisley! Too bad we couldn't see Xizor's Skyhook blow up in the background @ the end of ESB:SE!

 

[Guest liquidkid]

word, kanniget.... and for more information on supressing your connection to the force and hiding from jedi, go to your local library or bookstore and pick up "I, JEDI" by Michael A. Stackpole. it's the dramatic story of a heroic x-wing pilot on the razor's edge between the Force--and the dark side..... or so says the back of the book.

 

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LiQUiDKiD

-UNcouncil Master of Insults, Supreme Chancelor's Hitman, All Around Bully.

 

P.L.U.R. <> J9K-4-LIFE <> JEDI-4-LIFE <> MCL

[Guest Acid_Rain327]

"As many fans know, when it comes to Star Wars knowledge, there are degrees of "canon." The only true canon are the films themselves." - Steve Sansweet, Lucasfilm Jedi Council; www.starwars.com

 

 

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[This message has been edited by Acid_Rain327 (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Guest Jedi Kanigget]

Originally posted by Acid_Rain327:

"As many fans know, when it comes to Star Wars knowledge, there are degrees of "canon." The only true canon are the films themselves." - Steve Sansweet, Lucasfilm Jedi Council; www.starwars.com

 

 

 

This is pretty much what I said. The films rule out whatever contradicts them. For example, in Before the Storm, Luke digs into his mother's past, and from what I skimmed, seemed to have found her name and home planet. I don't remember what they where, but it wasn't Amidala or Naboo. What happens in the comics and the novels are considered true until George Lucas changes it. It's his prerogative. He created Star Wars, so he's not bound by what was written by anyone else. But the things that happen in the novels and comics that don't contradict what Lucas has done or will do are still considered legitimate. If not, Star Wars will end up as Star Trek sometimes has, inconsistent. Don't get me wrong, I like Star Trek, but the writers don't seem to be as bound to stay within the continuum as Star Wars writers are. Novels and comics in the Star Wars universe all seem to fit together. Novels written by two authors, in two different series mention events that happened in the other. It all pretty much fits.

 

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[Guest Acid_Rain327]

You don't understand Kanigget.

The novels aren't in consistency with the films, and they aren't supposed to be.

Lucas only authorized the publication of novels to allow authors to legally create their own stories using his characters, extend the expanded** universe and probably to make money.

The books are not to be considered of the same timeline or concept of the films, even though they are written to be.

The only consistency and legitimacy of the story as a whole lies in the films, and Lucas' writings.

Lucas doesn't change what's in the books to fit his writing, because he doesn't read the books in the first place. He doesn't change what's in the books because the books are entirely seperate from the films. That's how he sees them, and that's how they're supposed to be seen by everyone else.

They're not supposed to be looked upon as Star Wars fact, because the only facts lie in Lucas' writing and films.

The rest is all authors of entirely seperate affiliations writing stories they made up, using his characters.

Other than the licensing, the locations and the characters, the books/comics are not of the same concepts or consistency as the films.

 

**Expanded Universe is the term coined for Star Wars licensed products which are published outside the actual jurisdiction of Lucas' concepts, designs and consistency. These include the novels, comics, games, etc., and are not to be viewed as conherent with the films themselves.

 

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[This message has been edited by Acid_Rain327 (edited May 15, 2000).]

[Guest Jedi Kanigget]

I don't remember if I saw this or read it. Either was it was an interview with Lucas. Lucas said that once Star Wars started getting popular, he knew that he wasn't going to be able to tell all the stories that Star Wars had to tell. That's where the writers come in. They tell what happened to Luke, Han, Leia, Chewie and the others after the Battle of Endor. They tell what happened during the Sith wars and the fall of the Sith. They tell of some of the great Jedi. But as I said, Lucas is not bound by what is written by other authors. He is free to create as he will, even if it contradicts what was written. But, actually, what was written isn't contradicted by Lucas, what was written contradicts Lucas, but only in those cases that there is a inconsistency. Expanded universe is what goes beyond what happend in the movies, it tells the stories that Lucas hasn't told. For example, Chewbacca was killed when a moon crashed into a planet he was trying to evacuate. Lucas himself suggested this. He does have something to do with what is written, suggesting that the movies, books, and comics all go together.

 

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Darth Wart's Strategy Guide in a friendly, easy to use form!(Sorry, that was bad.)

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[Guest Acid_Rain327]

"But, actually, what was written isn't contradicted by Lucas, what was written contradicts Lucas"

 

Exactly. The novels contradict Lucas, not the other way around.

 

Lucas did authorize the publications in order to allow authors to finished his stories, the way those authors believe or think they should continue, but they aren't Lucas' visions or ideas.

 

 

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[This message has been edited by Acid_Rain327 (edited May 16, 2000).]

[Guest Jedi Kanigget]

Hey, it seems as if we've come to somewhat of an agreement.

 

Lucas has the last word on what is and what isn't true in the Star Wars universe. The expanded universe is part of the Star Wars universe. To make an analogy of it, consider the movies to be the verified historical documentation of the Star Wars universe. The novels and comics, while not 100% verified, are still considered to be true historical documents. Generally speaking. Obviously there are a few cases where the books and comics contradict the verified documents (the movies) and that is considered an inaccuracy on the part of the historian.

 

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http://JediPowerBattlesGuide.homestead.com/JPB.html

 

[This message has been edited by Jedi Kanigget (edited May 16, 2000).]

[Guest jedihorn1]

I hope this helps.

Lucas has a team of editors that checks all books before published and tells the authors what they can and cannot do. Before, they could not write pefore ANH or 60 years beyond ROTJ because Lucas said that was his domain, and if he wanted to make more movies, then that would be where they take place. (I am aware of the Han Solo books, but they had no relation to the prequels) Everything written in the novels, comics ect are considered Star Wars Canon unless lucas, through the movies, says otherwise. As far as Vader being able to sense Luke, it had nothing to do with biological relationship. Luke was just too inexperienced to mask himself in the Force. The reason Vader sensed Ben on the Death Star is because Ben let him. He knew he had to face Vader in order to give the others time to escape and to help guide Luke. Yes the novel have some (very few) inconsitancies. The black Fleet crisis books, as Kanaggit mentioned, were one of the major ones. But if you notice, they are hardly ever eluded to in any other books. (maybee once)They have not really been excepted by many authors(mainly because they sucked. I have read just about all the SW books at least once, a majority 2 or more times, and the Black fleet crises was so bad I never finished reading the series.) Anyway,

Like stansweet was quoted as saying, the movies have absoulute canon domination, but the books are considered valid unless they are contradicted by the movies themselves. This is all factual, taken from interviews of various authors such as Zahn and Stackpole, as well as interviews with Lucas and his staff. Most of these interviews can be read on theforce.net if you are interested. I hope this helped to shine a little more light on the subject.

 

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[Guest Jericho]

The masking of the force certainly seems reasonable. And with Yoda's statement about the darkside, I don't see a problem with Palpatine being on Naboo with all the Jedi and them not sensing him.

 

But, there's more here as well. The tree on Dagobah that Luke failed his trial in was a place of the Dark Side. The Darkness of that place hid Yoda.

 

So, Qui-Gon dying on Naboo would create an equal place of the Light Side. This and the shadiness of the Dark Side could have hidden Palpatine.

 

I wouldn't be surprised that there's a Dark spot on Tatooine as well...

 

 

 

 

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Jericho

Break the walls down.