Guest BigBud Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 What are you talking about. Whatch Vader fight in Episodes 4-6. He is slow and cant even move his head to look without turning his hole body because of that dumb helmet. Someone in here said that Vader killed all kinds of Jedi's. WELL please remember my friend, that he had help from assassins, dark jedi's, and bounty hunters. He didn't just kill them all himself. Let me ask you this. Who whas better in there prime, Obi-Wan, or Luke. Obi-Wan was a way BETTER Jedi, and Luke easily killed Vader. Even in TESB, Vader barily defeated Luke. Now, Obi-wan was better than Luke, and it Took TOW JEDI's at a time to beat Maul, and only Luke to kill vader. AND REMEMBER how maul died. That was so fake, and pure luck. Vader just plain got beat down. In Episod 1, Maul flips over obi-wan, and he could bairl turn around to block, and eventually got pushed of the edge. WELL VADER IS SO SLOW, he cant even turn his head without turning his hole body, and would habe died right there. You also say that VADER IS THE CHOSEN ONE. He was chosen to bring balance to the force, by KILLING THE EMPEROR AT THE END. That doesnt mean he was the greatest, I mean Luke did kill him. IN THE END Maul is better, even if vader is stronger with the force, because it would only take one flip or move and Vader would be histery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barnabas Antilies Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 So Qui Gon is to Anikin as Wedge is to Luke. They each saved the others but before they became Jedi. ------------------ Barnabas Antilies, Supreme Chancelor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barnabas Antilies Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 So Qui Gon is to Anikin as Wedge is to Luke. They each saved the others but before they became Jedi. ------------------ Barnabas Antilies, Supreme Chancelor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barnabas Antilies Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 In response to big bud. It wasn't just luck and Maul made a mistake. He tried to block with his saber forgetting that one end was chopped off. ------------------ Barnabas Antilies, Supreme Chancelor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Barnabas Antilies Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 In response to big bud. It wasn't just luck and Maul made a mistake. He tried to block with his saber forgetting that one end was chopped off. ------------------ Barnabas Antilies, Supreme Chancelor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi-wan Shinobi Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 Vader did get beat down by Luke. Maul too would be beat down by Luke Skywalker uncloaked. ------------------ Strength over Fear... Peace over Anger... Honor over Hate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi-wan Shinobi Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 Vader did get beat down by Luke. Maul too would be beat down by Luke Skywalker uncloaked. ------------------ Strength over Fear... Peace over Anger... Honor over Hate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pizza the Hutt Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 Any of the Episode I warriors (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Maul) would open a serious can of whoop-ass on Vader or Luke. Man, that wouldn't even be a battle. Vader, who in Episode IV was younger than Qui-Gon in Episode I, couldn't even finish off decrepit old Kenobi on his own turf without Kenobi "giving up." He later struggled *twice* (losing once) against the sorriest excuse for a "Jedi" in the Star Wars universe (Luke). Luke and Vader are too damn slow and predictable to be even a modest challenge for the Episode I guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pizza the Hutt Posted April 26, 2000 Share Posted April 26, 2000 Any of the Episode I warriors (Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and Maul) would open a serious can of whoop-ass on Vader or Luke. Man, that wouldn't even be a battle. Vader, who in Episode IV was younger than Qui-Gon in Episode I, couldn't even finish off decrepit old Kenobi on his own turf without Kenobi "giving up." He later struggled *twice* (losing once) against the sorriest excuse for a "Jedi" in the Star Wars universe (Luke). Luke and Vader are too damn slow and predictable to be even a modest challenge for the Episode I guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigBud Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi-wan Shinobi Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 That is where I disagree. Ben did not fight Vader to win. He is fighting to buy Luke and company time. In ESB Vader is toying with Luke, he fights half the duel with one hand for christ sake!!! When Luke does make some head way, Vader ends it with ease by cutting of Luke's hand. In ROTJ at the very end Luke finally lets go and is too much for Vader. The are far more powerful than people give tham credit. These are just my opinons so nobody get angry over it, cause I wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigBud Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi-wan Shinobi Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 That is where I disagree. Ben did not fight Vader to win. He is fighting to buy Luke and company time. In ESB Vader is toying with Luke, he fights half the duel with one hand for christ sake!!! When Luke does make some head way, Vader ends it with ease by cutting of Luke's hand. In ROTJ at the very end Luke finally lets go and is too much for Vader. The are far more powerful than people give tham credit. These are just my opinons so nobody get angry over it, cause I wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigBud Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 I totaly agree. Like lukas said, Episode one takes place when the Jedi were fast and ferce. Luke and Vader lack speed and skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigBud Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 I totaly agree. Like lukas said, Episode one takes place when the Jedi were fast and ferce. Luke and Vader lack speed and skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi-wan Shinobi Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 I know a little about fighting ... and sometimes it is Heart that wins out over skill. That is where Luke is master, he had more Heart than anyone in Star Was. ------------------ Strength over Fear... Peace over Anger... Honor over Hate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi-wan Shinobi Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 I know a little about fighting ... and sometimes it is Heart that wins out over skill. That is where Luke is master, he had more Heart than anyone in Star Was. ------------------ Strength over Fear... Peace over Anger... Honor over Hate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pizza the Hutt Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 The fact that Vader "toyed" with Luke only speaks to how crappy a (non) Jedi Luke was. Just look at the scene on Tatooine in Episode VI. A "real" Jedi would have made quick work of that entire mess, sending lasers back where they came from instead of just blocking them (or NOT blocking them, as was the case once). Luke was about 20 when he started his training, so he was 10 years older than the "too old" Anakin was when the little guy was rejected by the Council. And Luke trained for, what, a month or two with Yoda? Give him another day if you include the lessons on the Millenium Falcon in Ep. IV. The point here is that Luke took a crash course in the Force, and the results showed. Only because Vader also sucked was there any drama in those two matchups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pizza the Hutt Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 The fact that Vader "toyed" with Luke only speaks to how crappy a (non) Jedi Luke was. Just look at the scene on Tatooine in Episode VI. A "real" Jedi would have made quick work of that entire mess, sending lasers back where they came from instead of just blocking them (or NOT blocking them, as was the case once). Luke was about 20 when he started his training, so he was 10 years older than the "too old" Anakin was when the little guy was rejected by the Council. And Luke trained for, what, a month or two with Yoda? Give him another day if you include the lessons on the Millenium Falcon in Ep. IV. The point here is that Luke took a crash course in the Force, and the results showed. Only because Vader also sucked was there any drama in those two matchups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigBud Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 I accedently posted twice and was not agreeing with Obi-wan Shinobi. I desigree. Eventhough Ben was only buying Luke time, that just makes it worse. He was only trying to buy time, and vader still couldn't kill the old man. (They both move really slow huh) And on the coment of Luke and Vader. Vader was taking a little to much time with little ass Luke. AND IF YOU pay ATTENTION, VADER most always fight with one hand. I guess it is his style. Even at the end of ROTJ when Luke cuts Vaders hand off. Vader was fighting with ONE HAND. It's not like Vader was going easy on Luke. Come on man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigBud Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 I accedently posted twice and was not agreeing with Obi-wan Shinobi. I desigree. Eventhough Ben was only buying Luke time, that just makes it worse. He was only trying to buy time, and vader still couldn't kill the old man. (They both move really slow huh) And on the coment of Luke and Vader. Vader was taking a little to much time with little ass Luke. AND IF YOU pay ATTENTION, VADER most always fight with one hand. I guess it is his style. Even at the end of ROTJ when Luke cuts Vaders hand off. Vader was fighting with ONE HAND. It's not like Vader was going easy on Luke. Come on man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi-wan Shinobi Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 Well I respect what you guys have to say, but I dont think Luke would have been the push over everyone seems to think, he had to much Heart to be defeated so easily. Intresting points though. ------------------ Strength over Fear... Peace over Anger... Honor over Hate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Obi-wan Shinobi Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 Well I respect what you guys have to say, but I dont think Luke would have been the push over everyone seems to think, he had to much Heart to be defeated so easily. Intresting points though. ------------------ Strength over Fear... Peace over Anger... Honor over Hate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigBud Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 Let me put it this way... Vader was the chosen one, ONLY to kill the Emeror at the end of ROTJ. That was his main perpos in life. To bring balance to the force. He was NOT the best Jedi because he was the chosen one. Mabe he was a great Jedi BEFORE the lave pit thing, and could beat maul then. BUT in the suit, as vader, he lost alot of power, is to slow in the suit, and just plain sucked. Even Lucas said, that from 4-6 Vader is more machin than man, and lost alot of mediclorians and power. Thats the bottom line. MTFBWY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigBud Posted April 27, 2000 Share Posted April 27, 2000 Let me put it this way... Vader was the chosen one, ONLY to kill the Emeror at the end of ROTJ. That was his main perpos in life. To bring balance to the force. He was NOT the best Jedi because he was the chosen one. Mabe he was a great Jedi BEFORE the lave pit thing, and could beat maul then. BUT in the suit, as vader, he lost alot of power, is to slow in the suit, and just plain sucked. Even Lucas said, that from 4-6 Vader is more machin than man, and lost alot of mediclorians and power. Thats the bottom line. MTFBWY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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