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  1. Basically again, I see a whole bunch of people who see Vader as an enforcer, I don't see him that way. According to the OT, he was the Emperors right hand, and in a position of power. Dealing soley with those facts, and the facts presented by the film, he deserves to be in a SD. - So far the best argument here has been, Vader sells when he is in a Tie. I understand that. And for the record- why can't Vader be compared to say, a real life historical fleet commander? They had the same objectives, same resources to pull from, same motivation, and they certainly had charismatic similarities (in some cases). Vader's character, well lets see. He is a man who doesn't like failure, but admires success (even amongst his enemies). He is a man driven by the need to serve his emperor, as he has no chance of overthrowing him, himself. He uses tactics, and understanding to defeat his enemies (force ability modifies his understanding - to a sense of foresight). He was a man of deepset emotion, who became devoid, and an autonom defeated by his own desires. Yet, even in his most bleakest of moments, he shows compassion and understanding (though manipulated to evil ends in most circumstances). His goal, the destruction of the rebellion, then? We would not of known, but Vader had no inner goals of his own. They were quenched, and destroyed before the OT timeframe. They only begin to reemerge when his son is shown to him. To this end he utilizes any resources under his command to their greatest effect. He no more would step into a fighter, when his presence could continue to make his flagship perform that much better, then he would willingly submit defeat. He did not jump into his ship during the falcons flight at Hoth, because he knew he could motivate the ships, and men under his command much more efficiently, then he could if he jumped and flew off after the falcon. Not even Vader wanted to risk flying in there, he'd send other men - but the chances of his death, even with the force aiding him would have been too severe. Thus he stayed aboard a ship - that albeit it would take a beating, could still pursue the falcon. He attacked the rebels in the trench, because he was not in overall command at the Death Star. Tarkin was, Vader was merely his assistant there (and still proving his abilities to the Emperor), and additionally, he was not facing a severe threat. They were facing a few mere squadrons of fighters. Not a rebel fleet. He recognized the danger, and went to prevent the rebels from succeeding in their mission. Note - he did not attack the rebels outside of the trench, only the ones who proceeded on their bombing run. That does not sound like an emotional driven hasty character to me, that sounds like one who put the best tool to use, that he had. Had the main threat to the Death Star, been from some capital ship, I assure you, he never would have left. (Though thats an IF, and ifs are always.. iffy =) So please spare me your insults upon my intelligence, or perceptiveness, because I assure you, I've got both! One other thing.. the brilliant thing about having my beliefs, is I do not need anyone to agree with me. Please remember - my initial focus on this entire thread was to seek assistance in modifying the game. Hence why I posted this there. I shall never forgive the admin that moved it.
  2. Lol - I love that jedi, Modern cowards? Staying behind and letting others fight.. You've obviously never taken a military history course. Or, are aware of the difference between an army and a fleet. Nelson is a commander that led by example... umm, but wait, he stayed on his ship?! 0.o Does this mean that he is a coward? I don't think so. Vader knew his importance relied on his surviving. Can any of you imagine Vader flying in the Battle of Endor (assuming he was present on a starship)? No - There would have been way too many chances he could die. The differences between Anakin and Vader are great. Anakin was a single jedi knight, Vader was the representative, and image of the Emperor. His whole purpose was to show "Looky, that amazingly powerful bastard bows to the Emperor, I think we should do the same". (Thats rather simplified a bit, but is by far the most predominate of the reasons of his 'loose command') Vader should be in a tie in select battles, against Luke or the Falcon even maybe. But During the battle of hoth, and chasing down the falcon.. did we see him get in a fighter and follow the falcon? I don't think so folks. One other important thing I should mention. I don't care about game balance, never had, never will, not when it is me playing a single player game. I care about realism. - One reason why i love some of the mods for Rome Total War. I'm a historian, and a student, show me the facts, not a bunch of "I feel this is better". I can willingly admit that Vader did fight in his Tie, but not all the time, at all the battles he was present at.
  3. Umm - Just because Vader said Asteroids do not concern me, does not in any way mean that he was not the fleet commander? Who in the hell are you kidding? It was his responsibility to get his job done, no questions asked, he doesn't forgive failure, as the Emperor would not forgive his. Its called "At All Costs" pfff.. what a ridiculous argument if I've ever heard one.
  4. Sorry, one way or another, I don't see any evidence proving to why he should be in a tie fighter here. This is just fanboyish comments saying "ouu, Vader = Tie Prototype = Iconic = he needs it" Thats your personal opinion. Now, if George Lucas was to come down here and say that, I'd say ok. Since he created it... but, I still would not attribute Vader = Tie Prototype.. Many comments have been how Vader isn't an actual commander of a Star Destroyer (which is completely oblivious to the argument I was making - I didn't want him as a PIETT I SAY AGAIN, MORE OF A TARKIN). Obviously many of you guys have no idea how an actual fleet structure works. The overall commander desires something, and tell's his subordinated to do it, I.e. - Go to Hoth, or.. ohh.. as in real times.. sail throught the strait of Hormuz. I'm a military historian, and am very much interested in the naval history of specifically the Napoleonic era. (Still know a sufficient amount of WW1/WW2 info). He was in overall command whenever he was on a star destroyer. Of the entire fleet. (Though - the novels say he faced much resistance in the beginning of his career as Darth Vader) - Taken from http://www.starwars.com Just in case you guys 'forgot' those. "Reassigned Vader from the Imperial Fleet", or.. "Led an Elite Squadron of..." Apparently, hmm, he was only involved in one tie battle in the movies. How odd? Despite being placed in charge of the the fleet, we have him in a tie fighter? I don't deny that he should fly the Prototype Fighter - but I think, only in the case of where Red Squardon is on the field. The rest of the time he should be stationed aboard the MOST POWERFUL ship in the fleet. Like Tarkin.. again, sigh.. I feel however, that I will now be bombarded by "ouu he's l33t and needs his fighter" or.. "When I was your age, all I noticed was his fighter". I really don't care which is more iconic. He spent his time aboard SD's, he was one of the most powerful men in the empire. He would not have flown into battle in a fighter every time, thats ridiculous, give him more credit then that. The best argument against me would be the time frame - which is pretty sketchy since the area between 3-4 is the least documented. Still - according to the latest novel he was had a lot to impress upon the Imperial fleet (the officers felt threatened by his rise). I would take that to mean that he would spend more time with them, on a ship, then flying about and possibly get destroyed by friendly fire (they tried to assassinate him once.) . Still - if you think Vader was really stupid enough to give them that opportunity every time in battle, I suppose thats your right. Then... I would ask for this post to be MOVED BACK to the mod forum where i initially wanted it, and have someone mod Vader as a Tarkin style character. I didn't want a discussion, because I hate having to argue with people - its unproductive and wastes an unholy amount of my time. Instead, give me what I want. (Very demanding I know, how dare I, but... I would be speaking in kinder terms if I was speaking to someone who could offer a solution to my problems, and not more bickering).
  5. Please read my post Hobbie, before you jump to that conclusion. Raven is right, when he says that Vader was in overall command. Tarkin never directly controlled anything - I.E. he is now in the most powerful ship on screen.
  6. Resort to insulting my age, because of a game, and a movie? Holy jesus. Anyways, I'm completely ignoring that guy. The Trilogy IS Star Wars. Thats what I feel, you may FEEL otherwise. But, I don't really care about the EU, or his life as Anakin Skywalker, which I might add, ended when Obi-Wan defeated him. Let me try to count the times I've seen Darth Vader in a Star Destroyer, commanding. *I could be forgetting some times additionally, as I haven't seen the movies recently* ANH, he starts off in an Imperial Star Destroyer, the first, and probably most well known scene in the entire Star Wars fanfare. ESB, I believe he starts off in his SSD, Executer? Then he chokes some guy (who's brother was also an idiot, but I have forgotten both of their names) because he acted without Vader's authorization (and resulted in failure - Vader probably appreciates initiative that has positive results. , and makes Piett the Admiral of the fleet. He continues on the SSD for the majority of the movie. At which he is consulted, on directions and orders. (Mmm does that mean he commanded the fleet?)Only excepting his appearance in Bespin, after which, I might add, he was on a SD, when Luke felt him through the force. ROTJ - He is stationed on a SD while the Imperial shuttle sneaks past, and grants their authorization to land- direct example of command. After which he takes personal command of Luke's confinement, and then is in the Throne Room with the Emperor. Counting up - that makes it so Vader was on 4 seperate ships, for different periods of time. However, Vader spent... less then 5 minutes in a Tie Advanced Prototype, and he automatically he is placed in a Tie Squadron in game? I don't see how the math, alone makes that work. We don't even know if his flying skills have stayed the same. We do know his lightsaber skills were heavily altered by his armor, and mechanics. How do we know he stayed an amazing fighter pilot? Try jumping in a cockpit of ANYTHING. I have flown before, and I can tell you that if you suddenly gave me a mechanical arm, that is much stronger and slower, I would have difficulty compensating the strength, and movement in a cramped fighter cockpit that relies on quick hand movement and other physical attributes (I'm not denying that his concentration would allow him to over come some difficulties, in addition to the force). I'm simply saying that including in the EU, we currently don't have proof that he was even a great fighter. (Though, it has been a LONG time since I read the SotE, but nothing glaringly amazing pops out at me. Additionally I may have missed some comics, or other Star Wars stuff.. theres so much of it out there). I quite simply believe that Vader would have been better suited to a Command role (not like Piett, I was thinking more like Tarkin). (He should also have a squad of elite Stormtroopers with him at all times..) - Speaking of that, Wheres Palpatines Royal Guard.. As for the anti-Red Squadron, well quite simply at this time frame Red Squadron didn't face an enemy it couldnt beat. If it met a force too large, or too threatening, it hyperspaced away (according to X-Wing I believe.. but I could be mistaken). Symbolism, err, has no place in this argument. I couldn't care less about his Tie Advanced Prototype, joy.. (which - there were multiple copies of, if you played Tie Fighter (or its expansion pack, I think, in which the PROTOTYPE was included) Anyways, thats my long and drawn out argument for something that I've honestly thought too much on atm, but I have spare time. FYI- I really don't care if my opinion saddens you Rhedd-5. I really have no time whatsoever to waste a single thought on your emotional well being over feeling bad about an opinion on a game.
  7. You get the picture. In the movies, he was in a Tie advanced prototype, ONCE. Which he didn't do much in I might add. For the rest of the movies, including the first, he was always featured on the bridge of a (or in a) star destroyer or super star destroyer. He should be placed, like Tarkin, and a Fleet Commander, in a ship. He should give accuracy bonus (because otherwise he kills the person who fails him), and such things. Get him out of that ridiculous tie, its an embarrassment.
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