S_W_LeGenD

I understand. I also wanted KOTOR 3. But KOTOR 2 destroyed Revan's story in my opinion. Revan' story was beautiful and clean in the first game. Then came KOTOR 2 and we learned that Revan went in to the unknown regions and never came back. This sucked. However, I do think that some attributes and characteristics of Revan and Jedi Exile needed to be defined and it has been rightfully done so. If Revan and the Jedi Exile are considered in a debate, we can never properly argue for them with vague characteristics. Our personal assumptions will have no merit unless they have canonical support behind them. The novel is not bad. Give it a try. However, it lacks in depth. I personally believe that the novel seriously lacks in depth in the finale specially. The struggle to reach the Sith Emperor should have been a long one and it would have been good to see lots of combat feats of Lord Scourge, Jedi Exile, and Revan in the process. Drew wasted this golden opportunity in my opinion. The final battle was also not good enough for my liking. I absolutely agree with you here. Though I have no issues with introduction of the Jedi Exile. Her story is good in the Revan' novel surprisingly. No, I am not talking about the initial attributes of the game. Those are official attributes of the two characters during the Jedi Civil War. However, they do not give you the whole picture. Revan has certain specialities and so does Jedi Exile. And characters grow and change with passage of time.

I disagree. I always wanted Revan to be properly defined and his story be completed. He is too important character to be treated as a vague. Keep in mind that fans do not own Revan. Lucas is the owner. We just borrow the character in KOTOR game. However, I want Revan to get decent roles and treatment so that fanbase is satisfied. Fans are important because they made Star Wars famous in the first place. To be honest, I want more novels on Revan. The entire book should be read before forming an opinion. Revan does actually assists the Mandalorians in reorganizing themselves before leaving for the unknown regions. Canderous becomes the Mandalore after the death of his wife. This is why gameplay is invalid basis for determining the strengths and weaknesses of a character. KOTOR II is more advanced then KOTOR I, hence more features and levels are in it. Officially, the attributes of two characters are as follows: Jedi Exile: Str: 14 Dex: 16 Con: 13 Int: 16 Wis: 16 Cha: 20 Darth Revan: Str: 17 Dex: 17 Con: 14 Int: 15 Wis: 18 Cha: 19 Drew confirmed that Revan was the most powerful Jedi of his time. So.................

Let us re-visit your opening of the responses to me: This sarcastic barrage on me was not needed. Here is my full comment: My intended point was that you will waste your time by sharing your perceptions of your favorite characters with Drew. He may not agree with your perceptions or even parts of them. Drew has already stated this in his website: Disclaimer: DO NOT send me any story ideas, suggestions for a new book, character, game, etc. I will not look at them and will delete the e-mail UNREAD. I just wanted to simply caution you on Drew. Regarding how Drew chose to advance the stories of Revan and Exile; there is nothing we can do about it. There can be two outcomes; fans may or may not like his work. Our inputs will serve no (useful) purpose. Our inputs could have been useful when Drew was writing the Novel. However, Drew probably dislikes input from fans regarding his works as apparent from his disclaimer. If your objective was feedback only; fine. However, useless in my opinion. But you seem to have taken offence with my opening comments which was uncalled for. Still we can leave this now and move on. I understand your point but I still believe that this comment was unneeded. You can have disagreements with opinions of some Revan fans. However, this does not justifies your insulting remarks for them. Some fans of Exile overhype her a lot too. They think that because she stopped the Sith Triumvirate, she is unstoppable too and they percieve her to be more powerful then Revan. Your own responses affirm my point. See below. Still this is not an excuse to be used by any Revan fan to belittle them. Every person is entitled to his/her opinion. But we can separate opinions from facts. This is the primary objective of any debate. Keep in mind that Revan has much bigger fanbase among many Star Wars characters. You might be happy with how Revan is depicted in the novel but same cannot be true for so many Revan fans. All fans of Revan have high expectations from Drew. However, we may be disappointed. Go ahead. No one is stopping you. However, feedback would make sense after reading the novel. This is what Drew will also say. And keep in mind that Exile will be judged by how Drew advanced her story in his work. And not by your feedback. Same goes for Revan. Your response is not fair to Revan fanbase as a whole. You do not speak for the Revan fanbase. You even insulted those Revan fans with whom you have disagreements with. You could have been fair by leaving Revan out of your comments in the first place since you had nothing good to say about the character or its fans. My biggest gripe is your message not being fair to Revan fans. You think that Exile fanbase is free from the so-called ego-centric fools? I am not making any comparisons. Judging by how Drew portrayed Revan in his novel, he could have been an AVERAGE. Same goes for Exile. She ended even worse. Why would Revan have feared the Sith Emperor in the first place? Revan clearly thought that he could stop this Sith Emperor. What he did not anticipated was Darth Scourge's back-stabbing. Now two questions arise from this: 1. Darth Scourge was the only Sith who could lead Revan to the Sith Emperor? 2. Why Revan even trusted him? Did Exile persuaded Revan in this regard? We will surely find answers in the novel. However, let us consider some past actions of Revan to determine his personality: Revan did not feared Darth Malak regardless of following reasons: 1. Revan lost to Darth Malak in his duel with him on Leviathan. Revan realized that Darth Malak became more powerful during his tenure as Dark Lord of the Sith and was a dangerous foe. 2. Darth Malak could use Bastilla Shan against Revan and he actually did. Revan realized this from his interaction with her on Lehon. 3. Darth Malak was well-prepared to fight any potential adversary on the Star Forge from his point of view, and he would be much harder to defeat on the Star Forge. Revan also anticipated this. But these reasons were still not enough to stop Revan from engaging Darth Malak in combat on his own. Revan took his chance. My point is that Revan was brave. This was also apparent from his response to the Jedi Strike Team which was sent to arrest him on his flagship. He planned to fight them straight-on. However, I accept that Revan was willing to recruit any possible help to succeed in his ambitions. Revan would have responded to a threat on the basis of what he knew about it and what kind of options he could use in his favor to succeed in his plans. He used every possible means to succeed in his ambitions. This sums it all up. No, my perceptions are based on canonical actions of Revan. My perceptions are not based on my gameplay. Revan as a whole. Revan was certainly a great leader and a skilled warrior. However, we do not know how good he was with the Force. Some of the characters that knew him praised him a lot and specially his capabilities. He certainly earned legendary status in the Jedi Order. Agreed. Correction: Revan defeated one Sith Lord who led an Empire with firm control and enjoyed Emperor like status in it. He also defeated two of the Sith Lord's promising apprentices, several other high-profile figures, Droid armies, dangerous creatures, and many others who opposed him. In the bigger picture, he was instrumental in the downfall of a powerful and organized Sith Empire with his exploits. He fulfilled the expectations of the Jedi Order of his time where every other failed. Correction: Revan defeated most of his high-profile opponents on his own and this reflects positively on his skills. And Exile did not defeated those 3 Sith Lords purely on the basis of her skills. The circumstances in which she found herself proved to be very useful. Explanation is below. Keep in mind that there was no unity in the Sith Triumvirate, and this proved to be instrumental in its downfall. Exile exploited this weakness with help of Kriea, who was actually Darth Traya. Furthermore, Exile was a Wound in the Force and this increased her chances of survival against the most powerful opponent from the Triumvirate; Darth Nihilus. Let us focus on her engagements now: The case of Darth Nihilus: The Exile was actually helped by Visas and the Mandalore against her struggle against Darth Nihilus. She did not faced Nihilus alone. In addition, Visas betrayed Darth Nihilus and did not tell him that his force-sever abilities would not work on Exile and may backfire. And that is what precisely happened and he lost. The case of Darth Sion: If we follow the canonical path, we would notice that Sion develops soft corner for Exile. He likes her but does not admits openly. During his final engagement with Exile, he was convinced by Exile to give up and he accepted. Sion was like rotting corpse. There was no way he could have any future with Exile. He considered death to be the most logical choice. The case of Darth Traya: Traya, regardless of her nature, saw hope in Exile. She could use Exile for her ambitions and objectives. During her engagement with Exile, she could not use her Force-sever capabilities on her. She also could not fight like a normal Jedi or Sith because of missing hands. She relied on TK based saber dueling. And on the basis of the outcome, we know who succeeded. Maybe Traya wanted her to succeed. KOTOR II depictions were never about power. They were about exploitations. And I explained above how Exile succeeded. By all accounts, Revan seems to be more skilled. Agreed. However, not applicable in context of Revan and Exile. I do not disagree. See the red-highlighted part above. I believe that Revan was not stupid but he was brave. That was his original peronality before mind wipe. He changed after mind wipe. He was not stupid though. He fulfilled the task entrusted to him by the Jedi Order. And he executed his plans brilliantly once again. But keep in mind that trust is an important factor. When you are not acting alone, you have to trust somebody and that somebody can help you succeed. This is also applicable to the Sith. Betrayal can lead to downfall of even the most powerful figures in the Universe. Many cases affirm this point. No, I am not like those fans. You have this habit of generalizing about things, which is not good.

Did I insulted you or something? It seems you got offended by my response. You can email Drew a thousand times and I wouldn't care. However, your message to him that you revealed here is not fair to Revan fans in my opinion. You dubbed Revan fans as ego-centic fools in your message, which is a very clear insult. Sending an email to Drew now would serve no purpose. Because the Novel is going to be released soon and we cannot expect any changes in it. We are too late for this exercise. Also, you can have different opinion from me. I have no issue with it but your message is not balanced. Read it yourself and then get back to me. When you are addressing a writer, you should try to be fair in your message, if you plan to reveal it in the public. I am not the one who made those claims. Judging by how badass Revan was portrayed during KOTOR games, people generally perceived Revan to be very powerful. This still does not justifies the position you took for Revan in your message. I can argue that Revan was indeed a brilliant tactician but he was not afraid of facing his enemies head-on, if he had to. That is what he did against Mandalore the Ultimate, Yusanis, Juhani, Darth Bandon, Bastilla Shan (Dark), and Darth Malak. Also, I admire Yoda, Vader, and Sidious. Yoda and Sidious were certainly among the most powerful Force users in Star Wars mythos. Vader is also among the decent lot. No, I am not just another Revan fanboy. I do understand the character of Revan a lot better then you do. Also, what is this? "Now if they (Revan and the Exile) fought one on one, I think the Exile would win, however it would never get to that point as Revan would set a trap and use others to kill the Exile." Again, some authors have great talent and can write great stories. Drew is not among them. However, this does not suggests that Drew would not get to write Star Wars related work.

I doubt that KOTOR 3 has been planned. SWTOR is the main project now. Also, novels are being released to explain what happened before the events of SWTOR. Furthermore, even if KOTOR 3 is planned, I doubt that Exile would be a playable character in it. She is dead and would be in the form of a Force Ghost at maximum with whom we may interact during game. Revan can be the main character of that game though, if he is alive.

@ jonathan7 Seriously, your email to Drew would have served no purpose. The book is on the verge of release. And judging by the spoilers, I believe that that Drew has been disrespectful to both Revan and Exile. However, we can only pass final judgment after reading the Novel. Also, I disliked your approach of strongly defending your favorite character, Exile, in your message while you bashed Revan for no apparent reason. This was completely uncalled for and it reveals your jealousy. If you talk about powers, I can put a much more convincing case that Exile wasn't as powerful as her fans make her out to be. She was nothing major without her companions and her being wound of the Force. However, I being a fan of Revan, still dislike the way Exile has been treated in the Novel. Just like the fans of Exile have expectations from there character of getting a good role and performance in the Novel; same is true for the fans of Revan. Unfortunately, Drew had a chance to satisfy the fans of his works worldwide but he seems to have blown off the opportunity. I can think of a far more convincing story but what can you expect from a writer of average caliber? Drew is just OK. He does comes up with brilliant ideas but he is not a brilliant story teller, as far as Star Wars is concerned. And you can never ever expect a Force-Titan from him. He has a very different perception of Force and he believes that the Force has limitations.

Here is a more correct interpretation: A powerful Jedi (known as Revan) started the Revanchist movement to help the Republic defeat the Mandalorians. During the ongoing conflict (The Mandalorian Wars), Revan learned about the significance of a planet Malachor V and the taboo it presented to the Mandalorians. Revan visited this planet and got exposure to vast amounts of the Sith Lore. He also learned about the existence of the True Sith there. After the conclusion of the Mandalorian Wars, Revan and Malak in pursuit of remnants of the Mandalorians in the unknown regions met the Sith Emperor (leader of the True Sith) in Dromund Kass. The Emperor persuaded them to prepare for invasion of the Republic by Sith. The fall of Revan and Malak to the dark side was now complete. The two returned as Master and Apprentice. However, their ambitions grew as they got nearer to acquisition of an ancient entity of great power - The Star Forge. Both Revan and Malak now envisioned their own Sith Empire. Revan specially planned to use the combined power of the Republic (under his command with its infrastructure intact) and the Star Forge to counter the threat posed by the Sith Emperor. In short: The Revan was preparing to challenge the Sith Emperor. To achieve his aims, Revan established a Sith Empire of his own and initiated Jedi Civil War to conquer the Republic. However, Darth Malak shattered his hopes by betraying him and got the chance to carry out his own ambitions. Unbeknownst to him, Revan survived and ended Malak's quest to rule the Galaxy by killing him. The Sith Empire crumbled and Star Forge was destroyed. Revan was now hailed as a legend and a great Jedi hero. However, from the ashes, Sith Triumvirate was born. Sidenote: Keep in mind that Kriea became a Sith Lord after the conclusion of the Jedi Civil War and she formed Sith Triumvirate with assistance from Darth Sion and Darth Nihilus, who at one time were her apprentices. However, she was betrayed and was instrumental in downfall of the other two Sith Lords. Ironically! Her new apprentice - The Jedi Exile - killed her too.

Revan needs a proper canonical background and image, regardless of how people play him in KoTOR. It will be a progress. This holocron is one of such steps in the right direction. I want Revan's story to be completed and his feats covered in detail.

Against Dark Empire incarnation of Sidious, he surely has no hope and this is not just the case with Revan. DE Sidious can defeat any Sith Lord in single combat but one Sith Lord is getting close and guess who that is? Darth Caedus And than he suddenly decided to unleash the power of Death Star on Rebel forces and we saw Death Star firing at the Capital Ships of the Rebels in the ROTJ movie. Now was that not massive? It surely send a chill down the spine of Luke who was witnessing the carnage. And by the time Sidious was dead, The Empire was going all out against the Rebel forces but it was already too late. According to DSSB, Malak possessed devastating dark side power. And add to this the fact that Revan was not thinking clearly on Leviathan. He was behaving like ROTS Vader on Mustafar. And that was when Revan was in a state of shock and was not thinking clearly after the revelation. And not to forget that Malak was also a powerful Force User. So does Revan. Though I would give credibility to Palpatine' Force Storm. You need to show me some sort of strong canonical evidence that shows that Palpatine knows Nihilus' Super Force Severing technique. When did Sidious learned about Fallanasi Looping Technique? Did he even met with a Fallanasi? Revan can surely harm Sidious at-least. Revan' Force Lightning Storm is powerful enough to cause destruction on a big scale. And he knows some other dangerous techniques too. And Revan is like Yoda in most ways. He knows more offensive techniques than Yoda. The best thing about Revan is that He understood all aspects of the Force and was trained to use the dark side as well. You must also not forget that it took a direct hit from a Turbo-Laser canon to bring down Revan to his knees during his reign as the Dark Lord. Now if such level of power is required to bring down Revan than he can surely put up a good fight against any kind of foe. At-least Palpatine will know that he fought against a skilled and challenging combatant and not a fool. Tell me one thing! What would happen if those dark side prophets would get caught in Revan' Force Lightning Storm based attack? But the way! I am getting tired of this Revan vs Sidious crap. People should stop with this non-sense now and move on. Revan was great in his time and same is the case with Sidious. And it is true that Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in Star Wars Saga. Anyways! Star Wars is mean't to be enjoyed and not preached.

Revan is surely among the most powerful people of his age. As a Sith Lord, his feats and accomplishments are remarkable enough to place him in the upper tier of the Sith hierarchy. It was by following Revan' ideologies, the Sith of modern era were able to rise once again and conquer the Galaxy. Even as a Jedi, his feats are remarkable and his experience is phenomenal. And he is very intelligent, adaptable and smart. So it is safe to say that he is among the best in Star Wars Saga.

I vote for Revan! The main reasons are as follows: 1- Revan managed to accomplish the highest goal of a Sith. Guess what? Creating a powerful Sith Empire to rule the Galaxy. That's what Revan did. He managed to create and control a powerful Sith Empire and then initiated the conquest of the Republic with great efficiency. 2- He had an interesting personality. He was very powerful, talented, charismatic and knowledgeable. He is also considered to be a candidate for Sith'ari rank. He is surely among the best.

Both Palpatine and Traya were masters of the art of manipulation. Though Palpatine gets my vote.

The quote that JoeDoe 2.0 posted is wrong. Kriea considered Exile to be her "greatest" student and not the "strongest" one. What kriea said about Revan makes it clear that who was the strongest. Why not? - What about Revan's amazing performance in the Star Forge? - Revan also have killed and defeated several notable warriors and this shows that he was skilled enough to deal with threats on his own, when circumstances demanded action. - Darth Bane (a very powerful DLOTS) also acknowledged Revan's great knowledge of the Sith teachings and techniques. - Many "high profile" figures who have met Revan, have acknowledged his great strength in the Force and skill. Unfortunately, that thread is now locked or I would have have made a recognizable case for Revan's power. Jedi Exile was not more powerful then Revan. She indeed became a skilled warrior during the events of KOTOR II due to quality training from famous Jedi Masters like Kriea and Kavar and since she was a wound in the Force, this made her immune to a few sith techniques. But no one proclaimed that she became more powerful then Revan. Regarding Jolee vs Kriea: If Kriea is a Jedi Master in this fight, then this will be a close contest. Kriea was very knowledgeable, highly experienced and her understanding of the Force was also great. As a Jedi Master, she have produced several great and promising Jedi, which is also a noticeable feat. If Kriea is a DLOTS aka "Darth Traya," then Jolee does not stands a chance. She will defeat him without much trouble. When did those Jedi Masters trained to use the darkside? They were not familiar with many teachings of the Sith and hence lost. Revan's case is however different.

Of-course! you can be skeptical since there is no definate evidence but just suppositions. But such a possibility still remains. We would never know that which structure on Malachor V was most protected because when the planet was destroyed, some structures were gone and a few remained, among which Trayus Academy was one. Remember that it is possible that not all structures get badly damaged in a disaster hit region. Some stand and some fall. Another thing is that Trayus Academy was a frequently used region so that specific technique was probably not kept over there for everyone to study. He would have taken it. He did took things with him that were very important to him. Remember that the secrets of Tulak Horde were actiually taken by Revan and Kriea admitted that those secrets were no longer present on Korriban planet. So it is a possibility that he could have taken such a secret with him. Obsidian might not have thought about it but remember that Obsidian is not the only company in-charge for developing KOTOR games. Stories can be easily changed or altered or even retconned. That technique can be of a very different nature. We can only speculate about it. I can give you one example: thousands of years later, a technique known as Force Cloak was introduced by Fallanassi. They taught it to a Jedi Luke Skywalker and he mastered it. Now a normal Force Cloak technique allows a Jedi to become invisible to the eyes and to any electronic item as well. But an advanced form of Force Cloak allows a person to even hide/prevent his Force sensitivity from detection from other Force sensitive beings. You cannot even sense the presence of a Jedi who has mastered the Force Cloak technique and when that Jedi is using it. Now this technique can be used to fool Nihilus that no one is present in the same region where he is standing and he can get attacked by such a foe in a 1 vs 1 scenario without getting detected in the process. But chances of failure are also there. So this one particular technique can be useful in a fight against Nihilus. And there can be some other techniques as well. It is not necessary that a direct counter to Nihilus drain exists, although there is a possibility for one such to exist but we do not know. But certain techniques do exist that can be used to gain advantage in any kind of challenging scenario. The above mentioned technique is one good example. Once again! you are talking about a different scenario, which is irrelevant. I am talking about a 1 vs 1 scenario in which two Sith Lords are present in a same region and both know that their opponent is there and ready for battle. In this kind of scenario, factors such as Speed, Skill and Circumstances decide the out-come of a battle. And Revan can do what he wants in this kind of fighting scenario. So like I said before: -> If Nihilus manages to hit first - he wins. -> If Revan manages to hit first - he wins.

Here are some cases: A) She does not know that any defensive technique exists to counter the Drain of Nihilus. She tried to find one but she did not succeeded and thus came to a conclusion that no such defensive technique exists. OR B) She is not telling the whole truth to Exile. She does not wants to face Nihilus herself and since Exile is the only viable option to defeat Nihilus easily, so she sends him to defeat him and tells her that only she (Exile) is the key to defeat him. My point is that whatever Kriea says is not always true. Unless it is officially declared that there is no defence to Nihilus' Drain, there will always be a possibility for a one to exist. I never said that Sith Lords always lie all the time. But they do lie when they have some vested interests to consider or do not want to reveal sensitive information. And you failed to note that Kriea indeed benefitted from that supposed "lie" or theory of hers by convincing Exile that only Exile is the key to stop Nihilus and Kriea won't have to go through a more difficult route to stop him. Thus she stayed behind and watched the results, which proved to be useful. Once again you failed to note that Malachor V was a perfect and un-damaged planet when Revan visited it and it harboured many hidden tomb like cities filled with Sith knowledge/secrets apart from the Trayus Academy. This was before the conclusion of Mandalorian War. Now Sion and Kriea visited Malachor V planet after the Mandalorian War and by that time, that planet was mostly destroyed by the "Mass Shadow Generator" and many places were lost and few places remained intact and Trayus Academy was the only notable region to visit in Malachor V as evident from KOTOR II. Now how can Sion and Kriea gain as much information as Revan gained from Malachor V, when it was already a destroyed planet with few places intact when they visited it while this was not the case when Revan visited Malachor V? My point remains that Revan gained more knowledge from Malachor V because he got access to many hidden tomb like cities apart from the Trayus Academy because the planet was perfect and un-damaged in his time. Once again you do not know that how quickly Nihilus can unleash his Drain attack in a 1 vs 1 scenario and the opponent will not be just standing there to get hit by his attack. It will only take Revan a couple of seconds to Force Jump and land very close to Nihilus and then quickly attack him with his Saber. In this case, Nihilus will have to counter the attack with his Saber and the duel will start. Now Revan will have the advantage. So like Christos K said, Revan won't be just standing and watching. You should understand that SPEED and SKILL are the two most important factors that determine the outcome in a 1 vs 1 combat scenario. And circumstances also play a vital role.