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Hmmm, interesting, personally; I don't put too much emphasis into any single word generally in a message (this maybe part of my dyslexia) but the 'seems' bit isn't so much an issue to me. The latter, is the issue, I think of if the metaphysical can be brought into science or not, and then of course the issue over idealism, and how to 'counter' it. I think I need to read Wittengenstein to get a better grips with the various sides of the discussion GB j7