Oblivion Zeta Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 A little while ago I posted a topic on the star wars rpg forums asking about how you would go about building a double lightsaber one thing that intriuged me was this: However, there are some non-mechanical problems the character may face as well. Now, working on the assumption that the Jedi in question is of the light side, or at least is trying to be, the Jedi Order (or Jedi Council, depending on your campaign's time frame) will likely frown upon the character's construction of a "saber staff". The double-bladed lightsaber was originally a Sith weapon, and its roots are steeped in Sith tradition. The addition of the second blade really only serves to cause more pain, and falls in contrast to Master Odan Urr's instruction to use your lightsaber to end a conflict as quickly and as mercifully as possible. If you're playing a dark side campaign, well, tell him to roast an Ewok for me, and use Jar Jar's body to fuel the barbeque! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Not to be an ass or anything, but wouldn't cutting up your enemy twice as fast end the pain in half the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaya Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 I don't get your point. The second blade of a lightstaff does nothing the first blade can't do: severe bodyparts and burn flesh. There is no difference between the two blades but the fighting style. Both blades cause the same ammount of pain, have the same ability to kill, the same effect. So much for the in-role version. The real reason is very simple: it looks cool. There is no need for a jedi to have a dual bladed lightsaber at all since he isn't fighting sith with it anyways (unless he's a poor fella in a game with lots of reborn-cannonfodder) but deflecting blaster shots, melting doors and impressing mortals. And a single bladed saber can do that just fine - but "just fine" does not result in selling a movie or game as well as "awesome". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted October 6, 2003 Share Posted October 6, 2003 Originally posted by Tsaya I don't get your point. The second blade of a lightstaff does nothing the first blade can't do: severe bodyparts and burn flesh. There is no difference between the two blades but the fighting style. Both blades cause the same ammount of pain, have the same ability to kill, the same effect. True, and when I slice into you with the first blade I can continue the spin because it has severed whatever limb was blocking it and hit you again in half the time it would take me to end the swing draw the sabre back and hack at you again... Thus doing twice the damage in the same amount of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 There is no reason to assume that a saberstaff is a "Sith only" weapon. Barring the EU, only one character that we know of ever used one and that's Darth Maul, who happened to be a Sith. Yet no characters comment and say "wow, he's using a Sith weapon, so that proves he's a Sith!" Also, in the EU there is conflicting information. Of course GL got the idea of the saberstaff from the Exar Kun character, supposedly an ancient Sith Lord. But then in ANH Infinities the Royal Guardsmen use them and they're not Sith (maybe low level "Dark Jedi" but who knows). In addition I've heard plenty of fans tell me ad naseum that the saberstaff is actually a "practice saber" that "all jedi students" are trained with early on, so in theory they would all know how to use them. Or are all Jedi students/teachers then necessarily dark siders or sith? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi. It's not the weapon that matters, its who uses it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 There is no reason to assume that a saberstaff is a "Sith only" weapon. Barring the EU, only one character that we know of ever used one and that's Darth Maul, who happened to be a Sith. Yet no characters comment and say "wow, he's using a Sith weapon, so that proves he's a Sith!" Also, in the EU there is conflicting information. Of course GL got the idea of the saberstaff from the Exar Kun character, supposedly an ancient Sith Lord. But then in ANH Infinities the Royal Guardsmen use them and they're not Sith (maybe low level "Dark Jedi" but who knows). In addition I've heard plenty of fans tell me ad naseum that the saberstaff is actually a "practice saber" that "all jedi students" are trained with early on, so in theory they would all know how to use them. Or are all Jedi students/teachers then necessarily dark siders or sith? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi. It's not the weapon that matters, its who uses it. I guess in a way its sort of like a character using two pistols. More firepower, but much less accuracy. In real life he'd probably be better off simply using one until it ran out of ammo, then switching to the other (that's how the gunfighters in the old west did it, they didn't use two at once, despite what you see in movies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan In addition I've heard plenty of fans tell me ad naseum that the saberstaff is actually a "practice saber" that "all jedi students" are trained with early on, so in theory they would all know how to use them. Or are all Jedi students/teachers then necessarily dark siders or sith? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. My understanding is that a staff is much harder to use and control than a single sabre or dual sabres and is only used by the most skilled Jedi (dark or otherwise). Many moves that can be accomplished safely with one sabre can easily maim or kill the staff wielder. Originally posted by Kurgan To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi. It's not the weapon that matters, its who uses it. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cayqel Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi. Exar Kun used two sabers to defeat his master while he was training as a light jedi. He shortly there after left and became a dark lord of the sith, but at the time he was a Jedi Padawan. I think a much more important question would be, should a Light jedi be using lightening, or dark rage. Those are more directly tied to which side of the force he falls on, and obviously a light Jedi can. So I souldn't see a saber staff as much of a problem. If you can use a rocket launcher or concussion riffle to blow someone to bits, why not a saber to chop them to bits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 There is no reason to assume that a saberstaff is a "Sith only" weapon. Barring the EU, only one character that we know of ever used one and that's Darth Maul, who happened to be a Sith. Yet no characters comment and say "wow, he's using a Sith weapon, so that proves he's a Sith!" Also, in the EU there is conflicting information. Of course GL got the idea of the saberstaff from the Exar Kun character, supposedly an ancient Sith Lord. But then in ANH Infinities the Royal Guardsmen use them and they're not Sith (maybe low level "Dark Jedi" but who knows). In addition I've heard plenty of fans tell me ad naseum that the saberstaff is actually a "practice saber" that "all jedi students" are trained with early on, so in theory they would all know how to use them. Or are all Jedi students/teachers then necessarily dark siders or sith? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. To me, a Saberstaff is no more side specific than two lightsabers. Remember that prior to Anakin, we only saw one character use two sabers, that of Boc, and he was a Dark Jedi. It's not the weapon that matters, its who uses it. I guess in a way its sort of like a character using two pistols. More firepower, but much less accuracy. In real life he'd probably be better off simply using one until it ran out of ammo, then switching to the other (that's how the gunfighters in the old west did it, they didn't use two at once, despite what you see in movies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisk Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 wat does UE mean? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisk Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 wat does EU mean? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scythefall Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 EU means Extended Universe which refers to anything that was not written by Lucas. That includes all novels and comic books. Just depends on how deep your want your character's bio to be. In the Attack of the Clones handbooks, they talk about the various combat styles and Mace Windu for instance, is nearly Sith-like in his combat style(I think it Type VII). I think Obi-Wan was described as a more defensive fighter while Dooku was described as using a very ancient wrist-only saber technique. With a lightsider using a double bladed saber, i'd go with this: Your character has a deep sense of destiny that some day he will do battle the Sith. Both the master and apprentice will be there. You've seen it in visions and the force has driven you to build this tool for the final battle. That's just my thoughts on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Some of the stuff that comes out of the EU you simply have to take with a grain of salt. For example, did you know that Sith use synthetic crystals for their lightsabers? These are called "Sith crystals" that have dark side energy trapped in them and make the saber blade red. As you know, Luke used synthetic crystals in his saber, so that makes him a Sith..... (oh wait!) Since red is a sith color, and blue is a jedi color for saber blades, that means that a purple saber is partway between the Darkside and the Lightside, which makes Mace Windu part evil.... (hmmm, doh!). Yoda has become so powerful in the force, he has outgrown the need for a Lightsaber. Oh wait, no he didn't.... Palpatine has no lightsaber. Then again, maybe he does...? The Empire hates aliens and women, oh wait, nevermind, their highest ranking admirals are women and aliens. Or maybe they're not... It goes on and on. ; p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obijonkenobi Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 I love how they make up "in character" reasons for desisions made from a production viewpoint. The purple saber was such because Samual L Jackson wanted a purple one. Initially the ROTJ Saber Luke uses was blue, but they turned it to green as blue didnt show up too well against the desert backgrounds. I bet you the reason they wen't blue/red for light/dark was that the colour combinations were pretty. It looks better then say both using the one colour. As for red? I'd personally use a red blade even if I was a Jedi Knight with zero dark side tendancies. Why? Red simply is my favourite colour and looks the best (in my opinion of course). But then I'm vain like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire13 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Personally, I find it difficult to believe all the Sith would use red sabers. I mean, I'm sure there are Sith who absolutely hate red. Perhaps most Sith would choose red due to the symbolism, and because it looks menacing. But I'd think that there will be those who choose some other colour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Wookiee Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Stafire13, One of the greatest Sith Lords, Exar Kun, used a saber staff, but in all the drawings or art of him I've seen both blades are blue. Perhaps it was before the time of the sythetic red crystals though? D_P! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starfire13 Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Thanks for that info, Darth! You know, if I was a Jedi and was constructing a lightsaber, I'd make a teal blade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblivion Zeta Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 I didn't write the part about lightstaff being evil. Somebody else did in a different forum and I wanted to see what you guys thought about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Originally posted by Stafire13 Personally, I find it difficult to believe all the Sith would use red sabers. I mean, I'm sure there are Sith who absolutely hate red. Nope. All Sith like red. Any Sith that picked a different colour would be picked on mercilously... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJL Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Originally posted by Oblivion Zeta A little while ago I posted a topic on the star wars rpg forums asking about how you would go about building a double lightsaber one thing that intriuged me was this: ...The double-bladed lightsaber was originally a Sith weapon, and its roots are steeped in Sith tradition. The addition of the second blade really only serves to cause more pain... Thats a little thing compared to the force stuff... In movies jedis were not supposed to use force to attack at all and they were not supposed to feel anger, hate, fear, ... because they leads to the dark side... But in this Lukes jedi academy they teach that there is no dark powers but it is all about how you use them. Jedis are allowed to feel hate and let it flow through them and they are allowed to be consumed by rage and use the most powerfull ancient sith power lightning... If Yoda would be alive and he would walk in to this Lukes jedi academy he wouldn't live too long... Because he would soon realize that Palpatine didn't really fail in his goal to turn Luke in to the Dark Side... It just happend slowly and insidiously that even Luke him self haven't noticed it... And this realization would give him heart attack (if he have it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SideArm Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 i dont think it matters with the colours, y are the x-wing lasers red and the ties green if they represent the diff sides of the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsaya Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 @SideArm: Blaster colors got nothing to do with lightsaber colors. Completely different systems. Blasters ain't build by jedis and the Emperor didn't invent the lasers for his TIEs (he just kept using the "green stuff" from his homeworld Naboo as seen in EP 1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediLurker Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Originally posted by AJL Thats a little thing compared to the force stuff... In movies jedis were not supposed to use force to attack at all and they were not supposed to feel anger, hate, fear, ... because they leads to the dark side... But in this Lukes jedi academy they teach that there is no dark powers but it is all about how you use them. Jedis are allowed to feel hate and let it flow through them and they are allowed to be consumed by rage and use the most powerfull ancient sith power lightning... If Yoda would be alive and he would walk in to this Lukes jedi academy he wouldn't live too long... Because he would soon realize that Palpatine didn't really fail in his goal to turn Luke in to the Dark Side... It just happend slowly and insidiously that even Luke him self haven't noticed it... And this realization would give him heart attack (if he have it) Not to read too much into it, but Yoda training Luke is a completely different set of circumstances than Luke training at the academy. For Yoda, Luke was it. There were no other Jedi, aside from Leia and fat chance of getting her away from the Rebellion long enough to actually train her. He had to make damn sure Luke didn't turn, so he gave him that fear\anger\hate speech IMO just to scare him straight. A little Light Side Insurance. If you buy into all EU(Which I don't by a long shot), Plo Koon supposedly used lightning on a regular basis and he was on the Jedi Council. That being the case, Luke's view is more correct...it's not the power but the application of the power that makes it good or evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Stryke Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Okay, according to the most recent interview question about this subject by George Lucas, the colors of the sabers and blasters mean nothing. He used to say good guys are green/blue and bad are red, but he changed his mind (partly because of Sam Jackson wanting purple) If you really consider it, Dooku (disregarding EU), was a jedi and has a red saber. No evidence from the films suggest that he had a different saber. So there is one example of this. So that leaves Vader and Maul-I do not take 2 individuals to mean that only bad guys use red. Originally, dooku was going to have a green saber as well (supposidly), but GL did not like the idea due to the fact that the ending fights in Ep2 were dark and that might get confusing to tell the people apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblivion Zeta Posted October 7, 2003 Author Share Posted October 7, 2003 Originally posted by BoL_Stryke Dooku (disregarding EU), was a jedi and has a red saber. No evidence from the films suggest that he had a different saber. [/b] I know you said disregarding EU but in the novel(sorta) legacy of the jedi a young Dooku is seen with a saber that has a curved hilt and is green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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