Marker0077 Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 The non-interferance code allows you to only see your opponent when in a private duel. You do not see or get stopped by any of the other players in the room. The Multi-Duel code is a new gametype alternative to the standard duel. It uses the non-interferance code for duels to allow multiple 1v1 duels at the same time. Players are ranked & you can play against someone that is within 2 ranks of your own. This teams up the better players with the better players & the worse with the worse & should create a more enjoyable dueling experience for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 I like to duel, and that would be better than just waiting to be killed by someone that's most likely going to win anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 While it's a good idea, it would probably take a lot of programming. The game simply isn't set up to physically ignore other players like that by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Well, maybe just have it where multiduels are possible. I don't know how hard it would be, but can you make it where the duelists pass through those not dueling? That would be just as effective. I like the scoring match ups. That doesn't sound too hard to write, but then again I'm at the 'Hello, world!' stage of C++ programming... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted November 5, 2003 Author Share Posted November 5, 2003 Originally posted by razorace While it's a good idea, it would probably take a lot of programming. The game simply isn't set up to physically ignore other players like that by default. For the record (so this isn't an issue in the future), the non-interferance code was originally thought up by Jaii der Herr even though Lee refused to give him credit for the concepts. The multi-duel concept was originally my idea but Lee improved it. Lee already designed a code for this in JK2 & it works damn near flawlessly, if there are any problems I'm sure there is a way around it. This would be a huge thing for people because no one plays JK for the guns, people play JK to saber fight, well it's annoying to be in an FFA room in a private duel & have someone get in the way, this would eliminate that. It's also annoying to wait to play in duel mode, this would eliminate that. I'm telling you, this is a HUGE, HUGE thing. Originally posted by Samuel Dravis Well, maybe just have it where multiduels are possible. I don't know how hard it would be, but can you make it where the duelists pass through those not dueling? That would be just as effective. I like the scoring match ups. That doesn't sound too hard to write, but then again I'm at the 'Hello, world!' stage of C++ programming... First off, this is C, not C++. Secondly, without the non-interferance code, the multi-duel is not possible unless you build maps specifically for this gametype, in which case it would not be players going through one another, it would be duelists to their designated areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 5, 2003 Share Posted November 5, 2003 Well, if you only did it for the sabers and player movement, it would be easier it would still involve a fair amount of coding. And it would mean that you'd have to disable the guns (or they would act weird). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by Marker0077 First off, this is C, not C++. Perhaps you could elaborate on that? I'm not learning anything if there's no information... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 C++ is a superset of C. C++ has extra keywords and syntax specifically related to OOP (Object-orientated programming.) I would have actually prefered it if the JKII / JKA (QIII) engines had been written in C++ (like Half-Life for example), since OOP code is much neater to work with in my book... But the good news for coding beginners is that there is less to learn for plain C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 OK, thanks. I was under the impression that they used C++... *looks sheepish* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Well, the engine is suppose to be in C++. It's just that the qvm code is in C. I suspect that's because it's easier to create a C compiler vs. a C++ compiler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeOfPhunk Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Well, the engine is suppose to be in C++. Ahh - that's interesting. Wasn't aware of that... And yeah, a C++ compiler would have been a bigger deal. ...still a shame though. Once you've gotten used to OOP, it's a pain to have to go back to procedural stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Originally posted by razorace Well, if you only did it for the sabers and player movement, it would be easier it would still involve a fair amount of coding. And it would mean that you'd have to disable the guns (or they would act weird). At first it did not work well with guns but eventually Lee made it work with that too in 1.2.1 I believe. Again, there is a way around damn near everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 I never stated that it wasn't doable. It would just take a lot of coding. I did something very similar for Dodging in JKA. You just gotta be realistic with the additions, especially when you're not going to be doing them yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted November 6, 2003 Author Share Posted November 6, 2003 Who's not being realistic? Yes it will take alot of work but do you think it won't be worth it? That is a huge plus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 6, 2003 Share Posted November 6, 2003 Well, I've been trying to avoid talking about large coding projects (say, more than one week's worth of work) that have no current developers planned. This is due to the fact that there will always be more ideas than people to do them and it's not like we don't have enough stuff to work on as is. As such, I think we need to focus on posting concepts/ideas that developers can work on when they need a break from their primary project. Not that we can talk about big projects...I just think we need to talk about them in broad terms. For example, this sort of thing would probably fall under "Dueling System" and would encompass all the dueling behavior like private duels, Duel mode, Power Duel, etc. Hopefully by talking this way we'll be able to coordinate the major projects better. There's no point in reinventing the wheel twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Well I am sure Lee plans on having this in Duelrs for JK3 but the guy is selfish & won't share his work with the community. This feature is about as big as they come & I think should be in all mods, which is why I am bringing it up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 You know, I could try to ask him if he'll let us use some or all of his code. Do you have his e-mail? Perhaps if he's asked by someone else, he'll see the light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted November 7, 2003 Author Share Posted November 7, 2003 Well, it's worth a shot. What's the worse thing that can happen? He'll say no? I think it's Razor's place to talk to him, one coder to another (unless you are a coder). His contact information is on the Duelers web site at http://duelers.jk2files.com. Make sure he knows that this is going to be put in OJP, which is for everyone in the community. The only thing I am interested in is the multi-duel code & the non-interferance code. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Here's his e-mail: oattes@not4hire.net. Razorace, if you are going to e-mail him, then post that you are. If you don't want to, I will. It's interesting how he has this on the bottom of the duelers documentation: Obtaining the Code I intend to release the compiled mod to public JK2 sites for users. I expect that I will also release the source code to these sites eventually. In the interval, I would like to retain a little more "contact" with interested developers. Note that if you want to make changes and build the code, you will need Microsoft Visual Studio. If you just want to read the code to figure out how things really work, or just for the heck of it, that is fine too. If interested, please send me an e-mail (oattes@not4hire.net) and let me know you would like to get the code. I will send you a URL where you can obtain a code package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I'll pass. At this point I'm only contacting individuals with cool stuff for JKA currently out. Plus, I don't exactly feel like dealing with trouble issues right now. So, Samuel Dravis, feel free to contact him for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Ok, I've sent him an e-mail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Dravis Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 No luck, guys - He's not going to release any of the core Duelers mod code. Some of the minor stuff he might release after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marker0077 Posted November 8, 2003 Author Share Posted November 8, 2003 I knew he would, the guy's a selfish prick but that's okay, one day he will get his. You know what they say, what goes around comes around. Anyways, I don't think Razor is interested in coding this & I don't know of anyone else that is either. Damn shame. I'll try to enchourage this as much as possible but to be honest, it doesn't look good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Sorry, I just don't think it's high on the to-do list. If people want to fight more often, they can just play FFA. Plus, I got a freakin' full plate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted November 10, 2003 Share Posted November 10, 2003 Actually, it's all C. Everythink Quake, Doom, and anything done by John Carmack and id has always been C and assembly. Remember John Carmack making a stir when he said Doom III was going to be written entirely in C++? Various minor speed issues, both at compile and run times have been why John Carmack has ignored it for so long. A lot of minor issues have been resolved as compilers have gotten better, but one main reason was that run-time polymorphism is just too damn slow for games. And, actually, some Q3 based games (HL is based on Q1, sounded like ROP was saying it was Q3) have the game code in C++. Both Elite Force games have it, and I think nearly or all of Elite Force II's code (including engine) is in C++, as it's Rituals UberTools engine or whatever they call it. Since Elite Force by Raven had C++ gamecode, I'm hoping there's a slight possibility that JA's is in C++, but it's doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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