Enhanced Brainstorming: Saber System

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

The problem with that would be that you couldn't move while doing that. I don't think it's a good idea.

 

Could you clarify at which points you can and can't move? I am also a bit confused by this statement...

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by razorace

I like that idea, but I see there being a problem with the way the manual blocking will work. You can't simply hold down the button to block.

 

However, it could work based on when you last set a blocking position or something.

Why can't you hold down the blocking button? Keep in mind, it's only going to return the fire accurately after the round(s) has/have been fired, then the block button was pressed. All rounds that fired after the block button is pressed would go in random directions.

Originally posted by razorace

The problem with that would be that you couldn't move while doing that. I don't think it's a good idea.

Ahhh, answered my question already.

 

If you check out the movies, no one runs & blocks incoming fire ever. This would be the same thing here.

 

You could make it so that you just can not accurately return fire via blocking while running. I think this needs to be held back in another way for running & blocking tbh, like the running speed is nerfed a bit or you can only block whichever side your saber is on. Not sure how that would work out with the staff.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

If you check out the movies, no one runs & blocks incoming fire ever. This would be the same thing here.

 

Well, you rarely see a Jedi run and block fire, this is true. But it does happen a few times.

Look carefully at the Battle of Geonosis. Near the beginning, you can see a whole group of Jedi running into a group of battle droids - blocking fire as they run

 

Also, there is a section where Mace Windu very clearly blocks a shot while running. Not only this, it's from behind, AND he directs it back at his attacker!

 

 

What I've done for Movie Battles to try and represent this is the following:

 

* Forced to walking speed when the block button is held

 

* Made a 'sprint' button, which will temporarily increase normal running speed AND allow blocking while running. (You run slightly slower then normal when holding block while sprinting, but that's still a lot faster than walking...)

You can only sprint for 20 secs. max. Once you've finished sprinting, you have to rest (walk only) for half the time you were sprinting. (10 secs sprint = 5 secs walk).

 

...this system works well gameplay-wise, and makes the resulting combat pretty accurate to the movies...

[Marker0077]

Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk

Also, there is a section where Mace Windu very clearly blocks a shot while running. Not only this, it's from behind, AND he directs it back at his attacker!

You see alot of things in the movies, I wouldn't make things that unrealistic.

 

For something like this to happen, it should take force mana because the reality is you are running so your body is jumping in all sorts of different directions, therefore, your aim isn't going to be as good because of this. Force mana should be used for accurate aiming while running IMO.

Originally posted by RenegadeOfPhunk

Made a 'sprint' button, which will temporarily increase normal running speed AND allow blocking while running. (You run slightly slower then normal when holding block while sprinting, but that's still a lot faster than walking...)

You can only sprint for 20 secs. max. Once you've finished sprinting, you have to rest (walk only) for half the time you were sprinting. (10 secs sprint = 5 secs walk).

I made a sprint button for MoH as well but not like this. You just ran faster while your weapon was holstered.

 

TBH, I'm impressed with the concept design with that. It's refreshing to see someone come up with their own stuff & not jumping on someone elses bandwagon. I like this concept but I still think that force mana should be used while running & accurately blocking.

 

Another thing you should keep in mind (which I just chatted with RA about) is you don't want to add too many new buttons. Most people do not use the cycling force system because using force powers just takes too long via that, people need that stuff "on the fly" in MP. With no/neutral force power users, it's not that big of a deal because there are other buttons open for use but that's not the case with Full Force users. Again, this is just something to keep in mind.

[razorace]

We're moving into the implimentation phase.

 

I don't know about this sprinting idea. It would be nice to have have full out run vs. a troting run, but I'm worried about having two seperate buttons for running control.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

You see alot of things in the movies, I wouldn't make things that unrealistic.

 

I understand the point you are trying to make, and you are correct, if Jedi's could block this well ALL THE TIME, it wouldn't be a good thing! Not only from a 'movie' realism standpoint, but also gamplay.

 

...the trick is to get the right 'ratio' between what is commonly seen, and what is 'sometimes' seen in the movies. MOST of the time, Jedi's don't block when they are moving quicker than walking (or perhaps slow jog) speed. So this should be the 'norm' in gameplay.

..but SOMETIMES, they CAN run and block. So this should at least be possible too - using systems like the one you've described:

 

For something like this to happen, it should take force mana because the reality is you are running so your body is jumping in all sorts of different directions, therefore, your aim isn't going to be as good because of this.

 

At the moment, I have this concept in Movie Battles too. Basically, there are 2 ways to run and block.

 

The first way is to NOT use the sprint button, and just run as normal (without the block button held). You can still block, but your blocking angle is decreased, and every blocked shot reduces your manna. So, it can be effective when chasing down one lone gunman who's fairly close, but you won't live long if you try and run into a large barrage of fire like that...

 

The second way is to use the sprint button, which works as I have described previously. This DOES allow you to run and block wiuthout losing manna - but of course the dis-advantage is you have to rest after sprinting.

 

Now, while you may consider the second option a bit unrealistic and possibly too powerful, what you have to take into account is that in Movie Battles, the Jedi class does not have access to any normal weaponry - ONLY lightsaber and force powers - ever.

In this situation, when a Jedi is facing a large number of gunner enemies, the Jedi simply NEEDS the second option to have a realistic chance. So really, the second option is a gameplay nessesity rather than something which is trying to make the game more 'movie-realistic'. (Although I would question how 'unrealistic' it is comparatively...)

 

Another thing you should keep in mind (which I just chatted with RA about) is you don't want to add too many new buttons.

 

Yes - I agree - button overload is bad.

 

In Movie Battles, this isn't a problem, since by removing all force powers not referenced in the movies, I have reduced the overall button count fairly significantly. Also factor in the no-other-weapons thing for Jedi's and they no longer have to worry about weapon changing either.

...so one extra sprint button is no big deal for MB.

 

..for the OJP though - yeah - this does need to be considered...

[Marker0077]

Well I don't really think your running & blocking system is the best way to go but I have been wrong in the past, on occasion . Either way, this gives the community an opportunity to try out 2 different ways of figuring out what the best running & blocking system might be. Trial & error ya know. Good show anyway you look at it.

 

Right now, I think the way CM is going to go is in packs. Not just .pk3 type packs but installer packs. Originally I had a "main" pack in mind but now I think it's a little lame & will probably end up going with a "Client Mods" pack & a "Server Mods" pack but I think I need to rename the pack a little differently. The "Client Mods" pack name is a little misleading & it is also for servers (pure or unpure). This is required for certain hilts to function properly like real-sword hilts to not go through walls but actually bounce off of them or the reverse blades to do damage where the actual blade is, etc; etc.

 

Anyways, the point is I want to add OJP into the "Server Mods" installer pack, as well as JAR. If you want, I may add MB as well. There is still a bit of figuring out to do but this is what I currently have in mind. I don't mean to get off topic but I would appreciate any feedback on this.

 

The way I see it, most mods out there are crap & the stuff in CM blows at least 90% of it out of the water. Once I pimp it off enough & a name is established, people will probably download whatever is in the pack just because it has the CM name on it. This is a good way to promote the non-admin-abusable mods out there in hopes to create a friendlier community.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

Anyways, the point is I want to add OJP into the "Server Mods" installer pack, as well as JAR. If you want, I may add MB as well.

 

Sounds like a good idea. I'll talk to you about this at some point in ICQ...

[razorace]

Ok, we're starting to have design issues pop up for the saber system. I suggest everyone go over to the WIP thread and give me some betatesting feedback. The more I get, the better the system will be.