'Limited' Release? Remastered or Remade? SW DVD's

[Shok_Tinoktin]

Originally posted by Lieutenant_kettch

we got off topic a long time ago when bootlegs were brought up, it went downhill from there, and the title of this thread in very generic

 

 

That was the original topic! Just read the ommission in the first post. What I meant was, something off topic but unique to this thread is still valuable, rediscussing what is available elsewhere is a little ridiculous.

[Puphlicus]

Originally posted by Lieutenant_kettch

seriously though, people have a point when they say visually enhanced is not a remake, but a remastering. In fact, movies that are now put on dvd from original film say "digitally remastered", not "this is a new movie"

I don't think you understand what digital mastering is. This is not an instance of digital mastering. The floor has been digitally replaced, the walls and star field have been digitally replaced, the hatch has been digitally replaced, and the falcon has been digitally replaced. All with new material.

[Puphlicus]

You know what? I was wrong. They ARE the same movie, this proves it:

 

 

Just like the shots with the falcon, there may be new material, and the scene may *look* a bit different, but when it all boils down to it they're essentially the same scene.

[Shok_Tinoktin]

Originally posted by Puphlicus

I don't think you understand what digital mastering is. This is not an instance of digital mastering. The floor has been digitally replaced, the walls and star field have been digitally replaced, the hatch has been digitally replaced, and the falcon has been digitally replaced. All with new material.

 

 

But it is a digital version of the same things in the same place, that is the difference!

[Puphlicus]

Dude, it doesn't even look the same. It's new material either way. It's not the same model. look at my new comparisons just above.

[Shok_Tinoktin]

In the comparison above, the cinematography was different; and although they were subtle differences, they were designed to have a slightly different feel. In the Falcon comparison, they were designed to have a slightly different look, but were meant to feel the exact same way.

 

 

It's pretty obvious your gonna cling to your story, so lets just end this thread.

[Kurgan]

Originally posted by Puphlicus

Yes it is illegal, both here in Australia and there in the US. In fact if my memory serves me correctly you yanks aren't even entitled to back up software anymore.

 

Well, consult your local copyright laws, that's all I can say. I'm no legal expert, so you make your own decisions.

 

It was first legal to backup your own stuff (under fair use provisions of copyright law), then the DMCA came in and made it sound like you couldn't (if it meant breaking any sort of encryption protection), then this was revised/amended so you could copy your own stuff even if it meant breaking encryption (such as DVD encryption).

 

I hear the DMCA is "revised" every year (or is it every other year?), so I guess that could change (hopefully not against the consumer).

 

Unless this has changed yet again, you can copy your own stuff, you just can't sell the copies (or distribute them without a liscense), you have to sell the original. You only get copying rights for stuff you own.

 

As to the rules here, well, a lot of us (on staff) are from the US, but not everyone. Our rules (I'm talking on the forums and in the chat) against "warez" cover offering downloads of copyrighted stuff that you aren't entitled to distribute, links to sites that provide such material, and say auctions or ads for illegally copied materials. We generall discourage the discussion of "cd cracks" for similar reasons. It does enter a fuzzy gray area after awhile, but generally people don't talk about it so it doesn't come up. If you spot a violation that's going unnoticed, let us know, and we'll look into it.

 

Its not our job to enforce the laws of the governments of the entire world, but we don't wish to encourage illegal activity either (of course each member is responsible for his or her own actions while here).

 

And yes I'm sure about it being limited. Lucas will stop production soon, probably before Christmas.

 

That's news to me, where did you hear this? It'd just be nice for some confirmation. That sucks if it's true. That means it only had a run of 3 months max, that's pretty dang short!

 

 

As to whether this is a "remake" or a "restoration/remastering" that is a philosophical question I suppose.

 

How much of a movie can you change before it becomes "a new movie."

 

Or is the very act of removing it from its original medium (film) and placing it on a different format (digital video disc) and watching it outside its original venue (a movie theater; a home computer or television set) maybe no longer the same experience, and perhaps no longer the same "movie."

 

Putting that aside, I'd say it's more akin to viewing an "alternate cut" of a movie, than a completely different one. The sets, actors, director, etc are the same, just elements have been added and some removed, and some touched up.

 

Lucas has been tweaking his films in little ways for years (post-prescreening and 1981 changes to Star Wars, 1992-95 "THX Enhanced" alternate dialouge for the trilogy), it was only in 1997 that we suddenly got a big bunch of added scenes and a couple of changed scenes. The new changes/additions on the DVD pale in comparison to the number that we got back in 1997 though.

[Puphlicus]

I talked extensivly with an EzyDVD manager (in person).

[Kurgan]

So the store manager told you. Ok.

 

I wonder if there will be an official announcement?

 

I know it would be weird if it were limited release in Australia and the UK but nowhere else, but it's odd that nobody in North America seems to know that. Just saying...

 

If you're right, does this mean that there will be no home versions of Classic Star Wars available again until 2007?

 

That of course is assuming that they either sell off or pull from shelves any remaining stock by Christmas (which wouldn't be too hard I suppose, to sell them off I mean, considering their popularity).

 

I just figure if they don't say anything they're going to have a lot of angry customers come Christmas time, who wanted to buy it but can't. As Han Solo would say, he'd be "throwing away a fortune."

[El Sitherino]

Originally posted by Puphlicus

I don't think you understand what digital mastering is. This is not an instance of digital mastering. The floor has been digitally replaced, the walls and star field have been digitally replaced, the hatch has been digitally replaced, and the falcon has been digitally replaced. All with new material.

no, it's all the same stuff, just sharpened and cleared up, look at the A New Hope artbook sometime. It's all there. It's the same model it's the same star backdrop, it's the same everything, just cleaned up and sharpened. You notice in the first picture everything is blurry as hell? Also back then the film didn't pick up every detail, now we pick up every bit of detail, quality of film my friend. I suggest you get the Star Wars artbooks that come with pictures of frames and the final designs, the painted backdrops, and all that stuff. It's a remaster, not a remake.

 

 

 

also what I remember of Manhunter they left out a lot of the original story.

 

 

according to filmographical terms, a remake is a movie entirely re-shot, new cast, all that fun stuff.

 

cleaning things up however is only a remaster, adding a few things does not constitute the term remake.

[Puphlicus]

They don't have the power to "pull it off the shelf" - the most they can do is limit the release. This is what they did with the 1997 SE VHS, and the 2001 re-release. Now what you would normally want to do if you know it is a limited release is "stock-up" so you have toons of sets and will have them available longer than anyone else. Lucas decided to send them out in limited runs instead, which prevents this.

 

InsaneSith - it's not the same at all.

 

http://s02.imagehost.org/0445/comp2.jpg

 

Look at the falcon. Look at the front of it, at the radar dish, etc.

Look at the hatch/shaft - look at the light's arrangement. Now look to the left of the stormtroopers, at where the reflection of the window fades out. ALL DIFFERENT.

 

Now if you'll go back to the first comparison:

 

http://s02.imagehost.org/0470/comp12.jpg

 

I'll be move obvious the falcon has been replaced. look at the shadow on the front right/hand side, and the radar disc/shadow. Further you can see the walls, floor and starfield have all been replaced. Look at how the window is higher on the left hand side now, as I said - all completely replaced.

[Kurgan]

I guess only Lucas has the power to do this, most other DVD's you can still buy them in stores, years later. Heck you can still buy the Prequel DVD's now and they've been out for years.

 

Or is Lucas really saying that this is a "limited edition set" in the sense that from now on they'll be selling the discs individually, like the prequel discs are now?

 

Because other than the fourth disc, all this set is is a cardboard box containing the three keep cases for a low price.

 

It just seems odd that the one and only time DVD owners could ever have a crack at Star Wars is a three month period from September 21st - December 25th 2004, yet VHS, LaserDisc and VCD owners have had multiple releases over a decade.

 

With a normal DVD movie, it stays on store shelves basically forever, unless the company runs out of money to produce more or a new version comes out, leading the first version to be discontinued (or some time in the future if/when the format goes completely belly-up and is no longer marketable).

[Puphlicus]

Oh, and InsaneSith you obviously haven't read the book. The book is about Dolarhyde and Graham. Manhunter is about Graham and to a lesser extent Dolarhyde.

 

The Remake (Red Dragon 2002) is about Graham and Lecter and to a lesser extent Dolarhyde. How you can argue that is more true to the original story baffles me. It's true, for instance that the Lounds character in the remake is much closer to the description in the book than Manhunter's Lounds. But Manhunter has Graham closer to book, and Lecter closer to the book.

 

There are some things left out in Manhunter that are included in the remake, but most of it is stuff about Dolarhyde since the movie was more interested in following Graham. The remake may well have Dolarhyde's house burn down like it does in the book - but why bother when you're going to change the ending anyway?

 

Manhunter starts the same way as the book, with Graham and Crawford, the photos etc. The remake starts with 10 minutes of Hannibal Lecter (I might add that there's only 10 minutes TOTAL of Lecter in Manhunter, which is about what he gets in the book as a minor character). The scene the remake starts with is mentioned in the book to some extent, but it still does not justify its insertion.

[Puphlicus]

In fact it changes the whole dynamics of the movie to have that scene at the beginning of the movie. In the book Molly doesn't want Will to take the job, because of what it did to him with Lecter. Now you find out about it in pockets. Like that, a bit later you find out he caught Lecter, and then you find out how and that he went insane.

 

Now Manhunter expresses this true to the book. Molly doesn't want Will to go. You find out he caught Lecter, and then he explains how it effected him by a scene with his son - all true to the book, and character development for Will - correct.

 

The remake takes away all that, and gives the character development to Lecter - supposedly a minor character who isn't really important.

[Ockniel]

Originally posted by Puphlicus

InsaneSith - it's not the same at all.

 

http://s02.imagehost.org/0445/comp2.jpg

 

Look at the falcon. Look at the front of it, at the radar dish, etc.

Look at the hatch/shaft - look at the light's arrangement. Now look to the left of the stormtroopers, at where the reflection of the window fades out. ALL DIFFERENT.

 

Now if you'll go back to the first comparison:

 

http://s02.imagehost.org/0470/comp12.jpg

 

I'll be move obvious the falcon has been replaced. look at the shadow on the front right/hand side, and the radar disc/shadow. Further you can see the walls, floor and starfield have all been replaced. Look at how the window is higher on the left hand side now, as I said - all completely replaced.

 

 

yeah, looking at those pictures its obvious that alot of stuff has been replaced. But Im fine with it, I mean, its still the same movie, with the same scenes, same dialog, same everything, just the scenes have been made better, It's still the movies we love, and I don't understand why you want to make it such a big deal.