SW Galaxies community savages NGE

[Guest DarthMaulUK]

Over at gamespot, this thread has raised a few eyebrows. Most of the community have totally savaged the new game changes, which launched on November 15.

 

Do they have a case? The same is also said over at sw.stratics.com where their current poll has an over whelming NO to the changes. Our Poll has just gone live to find out your thoughts.

 

One thing for certain, the community again, is not happy! Look out for our review soon

 

DMUK

[captain_ben]

SWG is finally dead.

[Trahern Valley]

You left out the g, dammit. *pouts*

 

I think the only reason I haven't written a new Obten's Emotes yet is because I'm too busy trying to write for National Novel Writing Month.

 

Edited to add: Huh. Can't get to gamespot. Not even the front page. The SOE's paid hackers strike again!

[SirLancelot]

I'm going to say "what did you expect?" It's a given that many would not like the changes. I'm in the FREE trial right now and I'm enjoying it, but I guess I'm the odd man out. I'm not going to pass any judgement until I've played it further.

 

An aside:

 

I cannot help but think that many of these reviewers are not even giving the changes a chance. Much of the negative feedback is in sheer anger toward SOE/LA. Fair enough. Some are staying, some are leaving. We will see what happens in the coming months.

[HUGOMAND]

Sir Lance, you're not the only one who likes it! I like it too. But, they need to do something about meelee vs. ranged. It's tough for a meelee to follow the ranged!

[masodo_darksun]

I am new to Star Wars Galaxies, but not to MMORPG gaming in general. I have seen a lot of the new guys say the NGE is great and everything, but I personally think things changed too dramatically. I mean ok I get to be a jedi now, but is that really so great with all of the bugs. Besides that shouldn't I have to work for it a little. Personally these are my thoughts below.

 

1. We should have been given the option of interface the way they did in Everquest. Then if we want to use the old way we aren't forced to.

 

2. They could have simply removed the trainers as a previous update and gradually progressed to this point. (The same with most of the smaller changes.)

 

3. Why not keep some of the other professions too, why was it so critical to get rid of the other professions is nine really so much less complicated?

 

4. They should simply get rid of all the certification crap for weapons, armor, and whatever except for lightsabers for obvious reasons. It just makes the game seem so artificial. An easy way would be to simply have a hefty penalty for a non-combat class wearing combat armor and then the combat class gets to reduce this penalty. Weapons should be a separate skill set for all classes. I mean even if your a trader if you practice enough you can figure out how to shoot a gun, but you just can't be as skilled as a commando because thats not what your character does all the time.

 

5. They got the reasons that the game is lacking confused. I am new and it was complicated, but only because there was not a comprehensive localized source of information on weapons, armor, classes, etc. Thats why it was hard to figure out. I had to go to other places to find out what the heck everything was, but I did it. Second in Everquest they had more interaction by actual GM's. So far I haven't seen any here. I mean in EQ you might have a god pop down and start wailing on people and if you could take his incarnation out then you would get mondo loot, if not it was still fun from the role playing aspects. If they for instance had a GM come to you and start a quest JUST for you that would involve you in the game more then it would be a lot more exciting. They could even reuse that quest a few times without making it a huge frenzy to exploit it. Then they could make a new one and ditch it.

 

6. Things are too planned. It gets monotonous when there is just a quest, and everyone knows about it and it never changes and if you want X item you just go online and find out how and do the quest. Its like instead of roleplaying we are just solving crossword puzzles. I mean that there must be some random or unscheduled changing content that isn't always created by players alone. Otherwise its just level, kill stuff, kill more stuff. Then bang your maxed out and what point is there to playing.

 

I mean there are huge possibilities that I think they are missing here, although I will give it a chance and try to get used to it. The interface in my opinion though is buggy and I personally don't like it. I guess sometimes the veteran's and the NOOBs can agree on something. I hope though that from their letter about loot and excitement that they will try to reach more of the level that I discussed here, but who knows.

[Guest DarthMaulUK]

Good post. Ive just read through the stratics chat from yesterday. SOE say that the game lacked any Star Wars feel - really?! But that was more or less down to lack of content and some of the dullest quests I have ever seen!

 

In the chat, they said they NGE tested well and they wanted to introduce fast paced combat - fine - but then they are quizzed over the lag and say that its something they are looking into.

 

Why on earth launch this style of combat on a system that just cant handle it?! SOE are real experts at making new enemies. I really do want to enjoy the NGE but SOE are making it unbearable with their utter stupidity and contempt for the community.

 

The changes made for new players joining are brilliant. It makes it alot easier now for someone to get the feel of the game, despite all the fluffy Star Wars music and quotes that you now get.

 

DMUK

[masodo_darksun]

I agree, if you want fast combat you need to release Star Wars Galaxies II with a first person gaming engine not a MMORPG engine based on a MUD interface. This is essentially the same basic building blocks as Everquest which was adapted from a MUD. This basic system that they are using does not support a first person shooter well and a first person shooter is quite a bit different from a roleplaying game in general. I mean KOTOR was a brilliant game and mainly because you get to explore this facinating realm and drops are somewhat random and there are alternating endings etc. Why can't you incorporate some of those kinds of things in this game? I mean does Jabba the hut always have to give you the same quests and same rewards? Shouldn't there be multiple ways to gain his favor? They should just assign a few people to be content designers that participate in the game and randomly change things within a standard set of parameters. That isn't that hard. I know this because I have been a programmer for almost twenty years myself and I KNOW it isn't that hard. It comes down to organizational structure and roleplaying know how. I mean you have to have a GM creating real content daily to have any real fun and sometimes they have to play the role of an NPC.

[masodo_darksun]

Also I think it is just too planned and methodical if all the cool loot is routinely guarded by some level 80 mob that you have to grind to level 80 to kill. Then you already know the loot you are going to get. They need to have quests that say a level 18 player could do and then wow the quest is gone and whammo they get a cool unique item that may:

 

1. spawn a new cool quest

2. not be uber powerful unless used with an innovative strategy (like playing Magic its not so much the cards but how you use them.)

3. is just nifty looking

 

Otherwise things just get really dull really fast because you know everything you will have to do for the next say two years to get an item you can already spec out on the web. (soooo methodical)

[Guest DarthMaulUK]

My finger is getting extremely tired from all this clicking. Is this what they mean by being 'more interactive'?

 

DMUK

[SirLancelot]

As a player who had 3 "toons" under the old systems I can empathize to a point, but then, the old systems was so diluted. I'll explain. You had 35 professions that had to be balanced evenly which is a monumental task, in itself. Every time the devs balanced and fixed one, they would upset another. There was just no way of satisfying everyone in general.

 

One profession would get downgraded because it was claimed it was too powerful(like Rifleman), then the "balanced" profession would complain that now they had no capabilities against *insert profession here*, to which the devs would then try to respond, but then get more complaints from another profession. It became a sadistic cycle without end. Nothing the devs could do would have made the general populace happy as there was disillusionment with the gameplay in general.

 

Lack of content/immersion was another complaint. "I don't feel I am in Star Wars", was the outcry from many players. While the devs tried to add quests, and events that featured the canon characters, there was still grumbling. Some players expressed outright contempt for what the devs were trying to do and were ungrateful.

 

Combat. Many critics of the NGE say the combat has been "dumbed down". But, my question is "Auto aiming and spamming a special was intelligent, strategic fighting?" The combat in SWG seemed a little too simplistic, in my opinion. Now, you have to aim and track a target. I see nothing wrong with that. If your whole complaint about the new combat system is that it is not like other MMORPG's then I think it's a weak argument. What is wrong with being different? I know that change can be sacrilege in the gaming community at times, as we gamers fall into a set pattern of play that we are not willing to unlearn(Yes, that pun was intended). I would say that this attitude has harmed the gaming industry in general as it has made developers apprehensive about trying new ideas, lest they incur the backlash of the gaming subculture. Open your minds, people. Every MMORPG does not have to have the same combat style. the same interface. The argument of "MMORPG A does it like this, why doesn't Star Wars Galaxies" is ignorant, in a way. The simple answer to that would be "Because Star Wars Galaxies is not MMORPG A". It's Star Wars Galaxies. :-)

 

The way it was implemented could have been done much better, I agree. I think herein is where most of the anger lay. For them to market an expansion then revamp it into obsolescence was wrong. I think fair minded executives at both SOE and Lucasarts realize this and that is why refunds are being offered. I definitely, being a business major in college, would have thought this through better in terms of it's marketing and implementation.

 

That being said, I'm going to stay and see what transpires. No other MMORPG even remotely interests me right now. So, if SWG expands and grows in strength due to these gameplay changes, so much the better. If the game dies, then I will just move on. There is an implied risk of dissatisfaction when you play ANY game. While gamers may feel, by way of their expenditure of a monthly fee, that they have more of a "right" to fulfillment, in the end it is still a game and satisfaction is not guaranteed to anyone. That is the cold hard truth.

 

If you have read all of this, I thank you for your time. :-)

[Cercueil]

he came from across the sea to bring in logic....good post, sir.

[masodo_darksun]

In response to SirLancelot. I think you missed the point of my previous post. I am not flaming the NGE nor saying that change is bad. I am also not saying that changing the combat interface is a bad thing either. What i'm saying is taking an MMORPG gaming engine meant for Everquest and made for that style of play is not neccessarily meant or adapted for a first person live action style of play. It could cause a great deal of lag for several reasons. It is my belief that because it was built on this engine it therefore has the bugs that we are witnessing now. Just one example is the inability to cause damage to a target that is moving, or lag happening because commands must be translated to the MUD interface underneath the GUI interface. I am also saying however that "AS IT IS NOW" (i.e. with bugs) I don't like it. You get rid of the bugs and I'm great with it. I also still don't see why everyone has to be "FORCED" to use the new interface when you can simply make it an option and we can then choose. (in this case i'm not really saying you, but more the programmers.)

 

The only reason I even mention Everquest is because this IS the same engine, and because I'm a noob thats my only frame of reference here. Frankly I would not like it if it was a carbon copy. So in truth I agree wholeheartedly with everything your saying. Actually I listed a lot of changes I would like to see too.

[SirLancelot]

Masodo, that was not directed at you or anyone in particular, just my observation, Sir. :-)

[masodo_darksun]

Ahh sorry for the confusion then SirLancelot. I thought you were referring to my post alone so you can see how i got confused. Anyway i tend to agree with what you were saying and I will also stick with it to see what they can do with it. Who knows maybe they can make it work.

[masodo_darksun]

I will tell you one thing that I think is absolutely 100% cooler and better than the original is the new quest system. I am just checking it out and it is cool. To address some of the issues I was looking for before. I just killed a mob and got a drop that gave me a quest. Personally i think that is awesome. (other bugs aside I have to say I really like that. Plus the list of quest objectives is much easier to follow than before.

[SirLancelot]

No problem masodo. Like you, I hope they do make it work. :-)

[Blaze629]

Well I can't say I'm surprised much by the responses to the NGE here from both noobs and veteran players. Masodo you and SirLancelot can give more of an unbiased(if you will)opinion about all the changes with the NGE because you didn't play before. This game may be right for you and the other new players because of this, at least for a while. Who knows, this may be SOE's way of saying "Out with the old and In with the new" as DMUK has stated in another thread.

 

I think that SOE is so oblivious to their veteran community that they don't have a clue as to what they needs to be done anymore. Now the community is so angry with them that I don't think this game is salvageable anymore. I think now it's just a matter of time before the game is gone. As I've stated before, I think they've been trying to put a band-aid on an artery for too damn long. It doesn't work. They still haven't figured this out. Had they listened to their community back when things were fresh when they had good subscriber numbers, this game would have numbers that could rival WoW. Maybe cutting the game down to 9 professions amongst other things is what was needed. Unfortunately, this change comes WAAAAAAYYY too late in the game's lifespan. Too many players are leaving or have already left. What's worse, is that jedi who busted their asses to make strong "god" type characters are really getting the shaft from what I've heard. They work so damn hard for what they have and it gets taken away. Oh man, what a disaster.

 

All I can do is hope for a new game anymore because this one is indeed dead. One with different management and that is more closely monitored by Lucasarts. Maybe next time Lucasarts will manage it themselves instead of outsourceing it or they will outsource it to a company who can keep the players from leaving. Hopefully now that Lucasarts has learned their lesson from this game, further lessons can be avoided in the future.

[SirLancelot]

Actually Blaze, I did play before. I had 3 toons on the old system, as I stated. LOL!

 

As far as the analogy "putting a bandaid on an arterial wound", I agree. The game needed to have major surgery to fix it. The Hotfixes were not working. The content changes were not working. They had to go "back to the drawing board", if you'll pardon another analogy.

[masodo_darksun]

I agree that the game must have needed something from the veteran response so far. I also have been actually trying out some of the new features and it is getting better. I can in fact kill blues again so the last bug fix must have done something. I also think though that it is really difficult to balance pleasing veteran players and changing the game. There will always be people that will be unhappy with any changes. Something I would suggest though is to get in there and play some more and just try out some of the new changes. I for one am really pleased with the new quest system. I feel like I have a real set of objectives now and a little storyline which weren't there before. It seemed like before that there were some really canned quests that were sort of simple. Now I think they are getting a lot more fun.

[captain_ben]

Why were the bugs still there and the hotfixes not working? Because the current devs dont have a freaking clue thats why, not because its impossible to fix.

 

EG: Told the devs over and over since NGE TC, that the damage line in the character attributes is not alligned with defense and offense etc, not game breaking but it's damn outright shoddy. Another is the macros. Some genius has changed the way you end them. /dump doesnt work but /dumpp does? what the hell is that about?

 

Sorry but I'm not beta testing from the start again for another 2 years if it even lasts that long, accounts cancelled.

[SirLancelot]

The hotfixes were not working because the game was to much of a mess. Why? Because the game itself needed more than just a hot fix here and there. That should be obvious to anyone.

[captain_ben]

And whose fault was it that game is a mess I WONDER! hmmmm.

 

Na, if they kept it Pre-Cu and focused on doing the bug fixes properly instead of turning SWG into a console game with CU and NGE, all they needed to do is add content for those who are new and the bored maxed out players and properly, not just a few quests that don't even work.

 

Please stop defending SOE/LA lancelot, it's sickening to see people pay good money to be messed about but even more disgusting to see people defend SOE.

[SirLancelot]

The game was a mess due to a combination of player selfishness and developer error. Yes, you heard me correctly. The players had a hand in the game not being what it could have been initially, as well.

[Blaze629]

Actually Blaze, I did play before. I had 3 toons on the old system, as I stated. LOL!.

LOL!!!!! Then I was more tired than I thought last night because I didn't catch that.