edlib Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 He's already gone! Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Beastie Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Actually, I like the current Spike, and not just because the "unrequited love" thing is kinda close to home. Having Spike with a chip is a pretty interesting Pavlovian exercise. I don't think the chip will actually be what redeems him, but it does open the door for him to realize/express his feelings for Buffy, and that's what has the potential to change him. Thing is, the Scoobies represent something William/Spike has never had before, not even with the Fang Gang, and (apparently) not even when he was human, so he has no idea how to relate. ------------------ It's like I always say: When the going gets tough, the tough . . . switch to artillery. [This message has been edited by Flying Beastie (edited June 26, 2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Zaarin Posted June 26, 2001 Share Posted June 26, 2001 Much as I like good character development, IMHO, there's only so far you can take it. By all the show's explanations, vampires and most demons lack a soul, freeing them of all conscience and remorse, and making them almost automatically evil (perfect example: Angel's transformation mid-S2). The whole thing has been way under-explained. Why on earth does he suddenly have these out-of-the-blue feelings for someone he has longed to kill for almost 3 years? Plus, the writers never seemed certain what position he was in even before that. All during post-'Pangs' season 4 and the beginning of 5, he is continually helping the Scoobies, then trying to kill them, then helping them again, sometimes over the course of only 1 or 2 episodes. I'm mostly just annoyed because season 2 Spike was my favourite character, and by changing him so totally, I think they've permanently ruined their best villain, even if he does eventually get the chip out. I've actually disagreed with the way BtVS has been going since early season 3, and thought out almost an entire separate main plot from there on. In other words, I'm a typical die-hard fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Beastie Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 Originally posted by Admiral Zaarin: Much as I like good character development, IMHO, there's only so far you can take it. By all the show's explanations, vampires and most demons lack a soul, freeing them of all conscience and remorse, and making them almost automatically evil (perfect example: Angel's transformation mid-S2). The whole thing has been way under-explained. One theory (put forth on the Buffy newsgroup by, I think, Unwilly) is that the combination of the chip and Spike's feelings for Buffy is allowing him to grow/regenerate a soul. Besides, I personally think that it is possible for a soulless being to do good, just as a human with a soul can be evil. Sure, all the "inertia" is for soul=good, no soul=evil, but there are exceptions to every rule (remember Angel's "not-evil evil things"). Why on earth does he suddenly have these out-of-the-blue feelings for someone he has longed to kill for almost 3 years? Plus, the writers never seemed certain what position he was in even before that. All during post-'Pangs' season 4 and the beginning of 5, he is continually helping the Scoobies, then trying to kill them, then helping them again, sometimes over the course of only 1 or 2 episodes. The feelings aren't out-of-the-blue; like you said, he's been fixated on her since S1. Before S1, actually; he's been building to this ever since Angelus told him about the Slayer in the 1800s. Remember what Spike said to "daddy" about how he (Angelus) never gets into a fight he's not sure he's gonna win? That's Spike's motif. Thus far, he's gone up against three Slayers, and Buffy's been the first that he hasn't been able to kill. She's the first to be able to fight him to a standstill. Everyone thinks of things in terms of spectra. Pain on one end and Pleasure on the other. Evil and Good. Love and Hate. I think it's more realistic to think of these things in terms of a circle. At a certain point, strong enough emotions/experiences will become their opposite. Extreme pleasure can reach a point where it's agony (like being bitten by a vampire; it hurts so much that it's almost like sex --watch peoples' expressions when they're bitten). Saintly devotion to a cause will make you the devil himself to that cause's rivals. Spike's hate of Buffy had nowhere to go when he couldn't kill her. He's finally met his match, in every possible sense of the word. Imagine what will happen to Spike now, after The Gift. Buffy was his only foil, his only real peer --Angelus was a jerk to him even when they were both evil, Darla ignored him, Dru ended up dumping him for a frickin' fungus demon ( ), and Harm's, well, Harm. (Would you wanna go out with her?) He and Buffy are opposite sides of the same coin; they belong together. Didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but like I said, unrequited love is a major thing for me. ------------------ It's like I always say: When the going gets tough, the tough . . . switch to artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 I'm lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR2000Z Posted June 28, 2001 Author Share Posted June 28, 2001 I know exactly what you mean FB. I felt the same way when Microsoft has added a clever new "feature" to Internet Explorer. If the text inan error's message is "too small", specificallyless than 512 bytes, Internet Explorer returns its own error message. Yes, you can turn that off, but *surprise* it's pretty tricky to find buried as a switch called "smart error messages" That means, of course, that many of Resin's error messages are censored by default. And, of course, you'll be shocked to learn that IIS always returns error messages that are long enough to make Internet Explorer happy. The workaround is pretty simple and it worked for me: pad the error message with a big comment to push it over the five hundred and twelve byte minimum. But of course, that's exactly what you're reading right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Gunray Posted June 28, 2001 Share Posted June 28, 2001 that was the most intelligent post by jr2000z ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR2000Z Posted June 29, 2001 Author Share Posted June 29, 2001 All of my posts are intelligent-quality done too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jabba The Hunt Posted June 29, 2001 Share Posted June 29, 2001 even ive had more intelligent posts than you, ... well alright ive had posts just as intelligent as you... no i am not admiting that all my posts were dumber!!! ------------------ Official Forum Newbian "Its Going down his leg i think we are going to have to amputate. "No, dont take the leg, dont let them take the leg, they cant take the leg!!!" "Its heading for his testicles" "Take it, take the leg!!!" jabbathehunt@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR2000Z Posted July 2, 2001 Author Share Posted July 2, 2001 Yeah, but my posts had good spelling, grammar, and the thought process compared to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Redwing Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 Isn't Buffy dead? ------------------ At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR2000Z Posted July 2, 2001 Author Share Posted July 2, 2001 Well, vampires are dead right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycho Tycho Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 Hopefully.... *Takes out wooden stake and garlic* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Beastie Posted July 2, 2001 Share Posted July 2, 2001 Buffy's only temporarily dead. She still has (at least) two seasons on UPN. The last time she died, we got Kendra, who lasted about as long as a Star Trek Redshirt. Her death called Faith, who is currently locked up for manslaughter. Everyone's in suspense over whether Buffy's death will call another Slayer, or if Kendra was her one shot. If not, I say kill Faith and get a half-decent Slayer this time around. ------------------ It's like I always say: When the going gets tough, the tough . . . switch to artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hans The Great Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 Kendra's death was predictable, since the writer's were following the "black helper rule" - black supporting characters provide motivation for the white starring characters after they die: "I'm gonna get {Antagonist's Name} for killing {Black Helper's Name}". The Black Helper has three character types: 1 - The authoritarian stoic, who shouts "I'm tired of telling you..." a lot; he is usually the boss, police chief, ect. 2 - The Soft Spoken Enforcer, the protagonist's partner or rival who becomes his partner. 3 - The jive talking, bumbling clown, usually played by a black comedian. All three types usually wind up dead or in trouble, to be saved later, or he/she clowns his/her way out of trouble while the star of the show is off somewhere. This rule has been strictly enforced in Hollywood for a long time. Back to the original topic:Jar-Jar Binks, the character that ruined the film for so many people, is just like black helper #3. I would love to get the re-worked version of TPM on DVD or VHS, not the original version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Leader 05 Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 I'm not really that excited about TPM DVD, I like it just how it is on Video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR2000Z Posted July 6, 2001 Author Share Posted July 6, 2001 Video sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Zaarin Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 I like videos. You can chuck them against walls repeatedly and they still work, whereas one scratch on a DVD..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hans The Great Posted July 6, 2001 Share Posted July 6, 2001 .. Just don't expose tapes to magnetic sources, play them alot, and so on. You can actually repair most scratches on CDs and DVDs now quite easily, a broken tape is another issue. I just don't feel like paying another 20 bucks for the DVD, the letterbox tape is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR2000Z Posted July 6, 2001 Author Share Posted July 6, 2001 Yeah, but it has all those special features. (Im more excited for the old trilogy to come out then the TPM.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying Beastie Posted July 7, 2001 Share Posted July 7, 2001 You forgot Charles Gunn, from Angel. The hip bad-ass dude who eventually becomes the team player. Besides, what was it Mr. Trick said? Sunnydale ain't exactly a haven for the brothers. Exactly two noteworthy AfroAmerican characters in Buffy, and they both got killed/staked. ------------------ It's like I always say: When the going gets tough, the tough . . . switch to artillery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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