Population cap. Friend or foe?

[Rust_Lord]

Thus why you needed to move forward and conquer new territories which is the basis of a Total War game.

 

Thats the wall i hit. I ran out of places to conquer to gain income. My forces were out of position to sustain an invasion of the other houses, since as you said they dont have hyperspace and it takes ALONG time to reposition armies. Sure i could have attacked the remaining cities but the counterattack would have been devastating. I saw then that you really had to plan your conquest from a long way out. That is real strategy. Yes i know you couldnt actually have an infinite army since you dont have infinite territory to fund it or population to man it...

 

Upgrading the space station 5 times is more than enough. How big a pop cap do you want Jedi? You could increase the cap by 20 at each upgrade if you really wanted but its not practical. I think your just downing the idea because i wasnt so supportive of your idea. Your idea could be implemented but like I said, its not realistic. Put it into our terms, is the 10th stealth bomber any more expensive than the first? No. The cost of the Empires 25,000th ISD is the same as its first, maybe even less given benefits of mass production or improved production processes in reality.

 

Your idea of purchasing/upgrading population cap would work and is basically the same thing as the space station idea but its not slaved to the station. Like I said it depends on how large a pop cap you want. You could have the option at tech 5 to increase your pop cap beyond your limit, or a combination of both. I dont know what it is about needing to upgrade pop cap an infinite number of times though; you are never going to use this.

 

With the space station upgrade system a variation on the existing maximum pop cap of 20/25 could be to limit the cap by the level of your station upgrade. Eg Start at pop cap of 5 for Emp/ 5 for Rebs for and receive 5 extra cap at each tech after 2...so tech 3 pop cap of 10/15, with the Rebs receiving the extra 5 cap at this level. Alternatively the Rebs could receive the extra 5 at lvl 2 and the Imps receive nothing. This is probably more fair as the Imps get access to their first ship that spawns fighters at level 2. At level 4 the cap is 15/20, at level 5=20/25. This would ensure no one gets ahead too far. Its actually limiting the pop cap, which is not want most people want but it could make for a more balanced game and places even more emphasis on upgrading. It would hinder people from spawning an armada of nothing but corvettes at lower levels for eg. You would be forced to use the lower end ships for a bit longer, and with PG reducing the tech for VSDs and AF's you would have access to some heavier firepower just as your cap gets bigger....Just another suggestion.

 

You could also use your idea of setting the pop cap before the game as an option, say, on a simple slide scale? You could reduce the cap to say, 10, if you really wanted to have a small scale game.

[jedi3112]

Well, it's actually quite simple, I want my pop cap to be infinite. At the same time I want some limiting factors wich you theoretically can overcome, be it at a huge cost. Meaning that there is a limit at any given point in the game, but that that limit can be increased an infinite amount of times (with an increasing cost). In the end it would be impractical to get that extra unit. Rome doesn't allow for it despite introducing a good system for that game, just not worked out all the way through. However Rome was full with flaws, claiming to be realistic, while horses could jump over a 6 meter pike, bad AI etc.

 

Then again, I think there should be some rewards for an early strike. For GC, I've been thinking about the possibility of making your victory come in levels, where you gain money by how impressive your victory was (or in some cases your defeat). For example a huge rebel fleet attacks your small Imperial fleet. You win against all odds, the Emperor is pleased and gives you money. Supposed the rebel fleet was completely crushed, the Emperor gives even more money tha he would if some ships got away. Each ship destroyed gives you a small amount of extra money as well, depending on it's type. This last part could be implemented in skirmish as well.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Rome doesn't allow for it despite introducing a good system for that game, just not worked out all the way through. However Rome was full with flaws, claiming to be realistic, while horses could jump over a 6 meter pike, bad AI etc.

 

It does. Just because it isn't as obvious the system allowed it.

 

And what game is fully realistic? You'd have to be a fool to claim something like that. Even the developers realize that they can't have 100% realism. Thus the saying:"Gameplay>Realism". It just claims to be the most realistic to date. Which in my opinion, is true.

 

Truth is, I'm not sure there is any game with an actual infinite limite that can be accessive through non-cheating ways. American Conquest did have a pop cap (after you've build a lot of houses, you actually hit it. House cost kept rising but the pop cap did not. I'm 100% sure of this. Don't know about Cossacks though).

[jedi3112]

I'm not really sure about Cossacks, but I got over 2000 places during an 8 player game. I haven't actually filled all the slots up though, but building another barracks/town hall etc. did raise it. So at least if there was a pop cap it is well beyond that. I actually never even used over 1 000 soldiers though. Now C2 is supposed to have a pop cap of 64 000 (possibly split up among players). I must admit that I never got that far, but I do get over 1 000 units quite often.

 

And that horse thing wasn't the only thing wrong with Rome, but also the unlocking of factions is something that I don't like, it doesn't fit in with a PC game, or even an RTS in general. And Rome was pretty unbalanced (Germans couldn't even get a decent wall), and in historical battles I couldn't figure out how to play the other guy. I also had problems with breaking down the palace in cities I conquered, not that I had to do that too much, but sometimes it was the final level of palace and I had to replace it with one of my own, but couldn't upgrade it nor could I downgrade it in order to upgrade it with my own. Same thing with farms, and neither could I set a rating of what was sold and what was meant for growth. And these are just examples.

[The Source]

When it comes to the single player, I think the population cap can be raised slightly. Not to the point where your RAM is bogged down, but to a level that will allow you to develop a nice strong army. Sometimes I do get a powerful army, but I allways wish I had a few more men to fight with.

[lukeiamyourdad]

And that horse thing wasn't the only thing wrong with Rome, but also the unlocking of factions is something that I don't like, it doesn't fit in with a PC game, or even an RTS in general.

 

Yeah, that was pretty annoying.

 

And Rome was pretty unbalanced (Germans couldn't even get a decent wall),

 

Well, you were complaining about realism hehe. They're just trying to make it realistic from that perspective.

 

 

and in historical battles I couldn't figure out how to play the other guy.

 

Because you couldn't

 

I also had problems with breaking down the palace in cities I conquered, not that I had to do that too much, but sometimes it was the final level of palace and I had to replace it with one of my own, but couldn't upgrade it nor could I downgrade it in order to upgrade it with my own.

 

Sounds like a bug. I could do it without problem. I didn't even need to break down the palace, the upgrade option jut appeared.

 

 

Same thing with farms, and neither could I set a rating of what was sold and what was meant for growth. And these are just examples.

 

Then you missed the point of Rome: Total War. Its emphasis was on war, not economical management. They purposely dumbed down the economy. The on-field action, as far as combat is involved, is the most realistic up-to-date.

[edmendduke55555]

As for the Pop Cap, I was thinking of sumthing more Hearts of Iron 2 style. It bascically invovles Transport Capacity and Supplies. Supplies are created by Industrial Capacity being alotted to them and Transport Capacity is 1.5X of IC. (More like Maintainence Capacity) This could work in that a portion of a planet's income can be converted into supplies automatically and added into a sotckpile. When the army is too large and over the MC of the player, maybe effects such as sluggish/slowed repairs (i know they insta-repair after battle) or weaker firepower due to the inability to maintain the battleship. The maintanace capacity could be a direct relationship between the total income you recieved.

[Ali1392]

on a game like supreme commander

http://uk.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/supremecommander/index.html

theres no need for pop caps but on eaw there is because

a)the map is so small and has obstical

b)it does not and never will have any stratigy just tatics

and finnaly c)althought it does need to be movible even now with the really low pop caps peopel lag