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Bloody Teen's (JK2 releated)


Guest Kurgan

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Guest Kurgan

Okay, I just want to say that over the last summer I've had a chance to check out a few games, mostly teen rated, and mostly containing some sort of blood splattering.

 

I say this because it's often been an issue whether or not JK2 will have some sort of blood in it (not talking about the E3 demo, which many say did include it, but the final version).

 

Now I agree that blood doesn't make the game good or bad, and there should be an option to turn it on or off as the user likes (hey, even the Mortal Kombat series had this option).

 

My point is that just because the game is rated "Teen" (which we all seem to agree is what LEC/Raven are shooting for), the game could still have blood flying.

 

Cases in point:

 

Warcraft II: BattleNet Edition

 

Still widely played on Blizzard's service. This game includes slaughter on a mass scale with bloody bodies that decay before your eyes.

 

Outlaws

 

LEC's second foray into the FPS genre back in '96-97 had blood spurting from bullet and knife attacks in the wild west.

 

Primal Prey

 

A recently released title featuring Dinosaur hunting in the cretaceous period. Blood flies from puncture wounds on your targets, and wounded Dinosaurs leave blood trails to follow, and dead bodies start to decay after awhile.

 

I would also add "Shogo:MAD" but there seems to be evidence that the rating was changed to "M" (Mature). The version I have says "Teen" on the cover and has tons of blood and dismemberment.

 

So it seems that having some blood in a game does not make it "mature" necessarily.

 

As we all know, dismemberment is a common event in the Star Wars movies, and bloodshed definately occurs, though they are all PG films.

 

All of the above games are rated "Teen" and interestingly enough, the original Warcraft (Orcs and Humans) which contained the same amount of blood as the sequel (albeit much more pixelated) was rated "Kids to Adults" (in 1998, this rating became known as "E" for Everyone) !

 

I always considered the first WC to be much darker in theme than the sequel. They added all kinds of humor in WC2, yet it gets a harsher rating.

 

The ESRB site lists some other pc games that contain animated blood (yet are rated teen) such as the Alone in the Dark Trilogy, the Baldur's Gate series, and many Teen-rated hunting games. See their list <a href="http://www.esrb.com/search_results.asp?view=&whichpage=2&type=game&sql=%28rating+LIKE+%27%25Teen%25%27+%29+and+%28platform+LIKE+%27%25IBM+PC%25%27+or+platform+LIKE+%27%25MAC+ CD+ROM%25%27+or+platform+LIKE+%27%25MPC%25%27+or+platform+LIKE+%27%25PC+CD+ROM%25%27+or+platform+LIKE+%27%25Personal+Computer%25%27+or+platform+LIKE+%27%25Windows%25%27+or+platform +LIKE+%27%25Windows+95%25%27+or+platform+LIKE+%27%25WINDOWS+CD%2DROM%25%27+%29&stype=&styperat=ratings&stypedes=&stypedes2=&stypeplat=platforms&stypepub=&sfor=&sforrat=Teen&sfordes =&sfordes2=&sforplat=IBM+PC%2C+MAC+CD+ROM%2C+MPC%2C+PC+CD+ROM%2C+Personal+Computer%2C+Windows%2C+Windows+95%2C+WINDOWS+CD%2DROM&sforpub=&pagesize=20">here</a>.

 

Kurgan

 

[ August 29, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

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Interesting thought, but two things:

--Star Wars is just plain not about blood. It just doesn't fit into the action. Even something like the severed arm in the cantina was never again repeated.

--The games ratings board is much more strict about offering a Teen rating nowadays than they were around 1998.

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Originally posted by Astrakhan:

<STRONG>Interesting thought, but two things:

--Star Wars is just plain not about blood. It just doesn't fit into the action. Even something like the severed arm in the cantina was never again repeated.</STRONG>

 

How about

 

a) the wampa in the cave in ESB, and

b) Darth Maul being sliced in half in TPM

 

:confused:

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Guest Hannibal

If there is any blood in JK2 I doubt it will be dripping. It'll probably be a mist like at the end of TPM or in the JK2 screenshot. If you remember not everyone saw the blood at the end of TPM the first time they saw it. I didn't.

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Guest Kurgan

Yeah, I think we can pretty much put to rest two common arguments:

 

1) There isn't any blood in the star wars films.

 

2) "Teen" rated games don't show any blood.

 

I have studied the recent screenshots of JK2 and I think it is undeniable that that is actually blood (red mist) being spilled from Stormtroopers by Kyle's saber.

 

So JK2 has blood in it RIGHT NOW. The question of course remains.. WILL IT STILL BE IN THE FINAL VERSION THAT IS EVENTUALLY RELEASED?

 

I for one, see no reason to believe that it should not be, or will not be, except LEC's past record, but as was pointed out, the standards do change. Of course from what I've looked at in games, older games with blood had the same ratings that games with blood do nowadays (the equivalent of "Teen" usually). Perhaps in those days you could say it was "less realistic" but I don't think it could ever be said that making it a teen game would make it impossible to show bloodshed.

 

Wait and see...

 

Kurgan

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Originally posted by Kurgan:

<STRONG>Of course from what I've looked at in games, older games with blood had the same ratings that games with blood do nowadays (the equivalent of "Teen" usually). Perhaps in those days you could say it was "less realistic" but I don't think it could ever be said that making it a teen game would make it impossible to show bloodshed.

Kurgan</STRONG>

I mean it's not speculation that the board *honestly is* more sensitive to blood now when rating games as Teen, since perhaps mid-2000 in particular. I know, I've submitted them.

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Guest Kurgan

Are you saying you're on the ESRB ratings board? I'm just curious, as I'm not sure I understood you correctly.

 

Still, despite that, I have this game here called Primal Prey (which I mentioned earlier) which has quite prominent blood splats and flying blood (was released just a week ago in fact) and it's rated "Teen."

 

Bought it at Wal-Mart, prominently displayed, for 20 bucks. So how do you explain that?

 

I figured at one time that the "Teen" rating was squeeky clean and that all bloody games would get "M" by default, but that was just because I'd been playing a lot of LEC games. When I look at non-LEC games, it seems that blood in Teen games is actually fairly common. Warcraft 1 would be the exception, because I figured it would have gotten a Teen rating, but instead got an E (KA then).

 

So if anything, the standards in recent years have moved blood from E to Teen, not Teen to Mature. Was that the point you were trying to make?

 

The only factor I can see that might contribute to the "no blood" outcome for this game is LEC's squeeky clean image. Still, if they want to have a Teen rating and thus appeal to a larger audience (than with Mature), they can still do that and have some blood.

 

Also, we are taking into account that Raven is doing the game, so perhaps they won't use the same "discretion" shall we say that LEC will, even though LEC is overseeing it. I don't think it would hurt the game either.

 

Kurgan

 

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

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Originally posted by Kurgan:

<STRONG>Are you saying you're on the ESRB ratings board? I'm just curious, as I'm not sure I understood you correctly.</STRONG>

Nah, I guess I wasn't too clear there. I meant that I've been involved in games that have been submitted to the ESRB over the years. Getting a Teen rating in the past year has gotten pretty touchy. Not quite as bad as getting a game onto shelves in Germany, but almost. :-)

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So you were on the testing board for the ESRB?

 

You're saying it's a fine line between Teen and Mature, I get that much, just not the other part.

 

I must be too tired... ; p

 

-------------------------

hexcuts.jpg

 

[ September 01, 2001: Message edited by: Kurgan ]

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I'm a little late on this one, but I'd have thought that with the host of violent games coming out this would mean our game is small fry in comparison,

 

I mean, the gory games are becoming gorier (sp?!) which means that surely it will help us to get the best rating?

 

wardz

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Guest xwing guy

Actually if LEC wants to be realistic there wouldn't be any blood at all because a lightsaber is so hot that it immedatily seals the hole. Back when they made the movies I guess they didn't think about this.

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Well you're forgetting the alien's arm in the Cantina scene (bloody). The theory is that it's the stump on the body of the person that is scorched and cauterized, but the severed limb itself (unless it was cut off very slowly) would be bloody.

 

But yeah, I think I could buy "no blood" for the lightsaber, but what about explosives? Or bladed weapons? There's many opportunities for "realism" with a bit of blood for those sorts of attacks.

 

With blasters I would like to see puffs of smoke and flames (on the targets) in addition to carbon scoring decals, that would look nice (and very starwarsy).

 

There's blood in the JK2 demo (from the lightsaber at least), but whether or not it makes it into the final, is anyone's guess. I just don't see why it shouldn't or wouldn't.

 

Kurgan

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Guest xwing guy

What if they put in the gore from SOF or, whats supposed to be better, the gore from SOF2. BTW anyone here play SOF with all violence options on. I have.

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I really dont care if theres blood or not, I am still going to buy the game.

 

But i guess i would prefere a little blood to no blood at all, since chopping off somones arm or blowing them a part with a rail gun will probably be in the game. This game should be realistic, but not overly bloody.

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The theory is that it's the stump on the body of the person that is scorched and cauterized, but the severed limb itself (unless it was cut off very slowly) would be bloody.

 

Um...if the lightsaber instantaneously cauterizes the wound on one side of the cut, it would do exactly the same thing for the other side, too. Cauterization is unrelated to the tissue's physical attachment to the body, it's simply a result of heat.

 

No offense to whoever developed that theory about lightsaber wound cauterization, but it makes no sense and is physically impossible. Whether the wound is part of the body or part of the severed limb wouldn't effect whether or not it cauterizes.

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Um...if the lightsaber instantaneously cauterizes the wound on one side of the cut, it would do exactly the same thing for the other side, too. Cauterization is unrelated to the tissue's physical attachment to the body, it's simply a result of heat.

 

No offense to whoever developed that theory about lightsaber wound cauterization, but it makes no sense and is physically impossible. Whether the wound is part of the body or part of the severed limb wouldn't effect whether or not it cauterizes.

 

Just so you know, it wasn't my theory. Sure maybe it's bad science, but I'm sure the intent was to explain the problem of the bloody limb in the cantina scene.

 

I wasn't trying to argue so much for whether or not it was 100% realistic, but if we're just trying to echo the movies, there could be blood from saber dismemberment.

 

Kurgan

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