Cutting through Steel poles??

[Pedro The Hutt]

Originally posted by Cyclone

The id engines are not designed that way, JKII uses an id engine.

 

I stand by my post.

 

Cyclone

 

One thing though..... Raven seriously modified that engine ^.^ But heck, let's just wait and see untill we have that game now lol.. this discussion can go on for weeks ^.^

[Desslock]

Howell:

 

-Breakables are easy to do, but difficult to master.

-They can have a huge impact on other people.

-If you gib something in the game world, its not meant to be put back together. You can reset breakables, but why would you want to in the middle of a game?

[Eternity]

that would be awesome if you could cut a pole that fell down and smashed through a barracks wall only to show a sith and storm toopers

 

As someone has mentioned, get Red Faction if you're into that. It's been done, and it's been done well.

 

I very much doubt much interaction with the enviroment will take place. I'm thinking Raven isn't going to go out of the norm, here; they are making a solid shooter here, on a deadline. Nothing unique, except for the light-sabre.

 

Good thing I'm not expecting anything else. 0_0. They better have good maps and smart AI, though.

[Redfox_20]

As someone mentioned earlier-

 

Red Faction introduced "Geo Morph" technology in 3D gaming engines. You were able to shoot a rocket at the wall/floor and a hole would be created. If one was bored, they could go for hours making an undergroud "cave" using grenades, mines, and rockets.

 

Some of the multiplay maps relied on the use of this technology to get from place to place. For example, you started out in a small room which has walls MEANT to be destroyed, providing access to an outer area.

 

Sure, this may be the Q3 engine that doesn't incorporate that, But i am sure that THQ, Volition, and the makers of red faction aren't holding the rights to this technology exclusively.

 

As they say- its BASED on ID's and Raven's 3d engine, but its not exactly the same. I sure am hoping to see something like this in JKII, mainly because it excites me and provides a WHOLE different level of gameplay.

 

Cheers

Redfox

[Guest X-Vector]

Originally posted by Eternity

I very much doubt much interaction with the enviroment will take place. I'm thinking Raven isn't going to go out of the norm, here; they are making a solid shooter here, on a deadline. Nothing unique, except for the light-sabre.

 

Well, the force powers are pretty unique for an FPS as well (although credit should go for LEC for those features - JK did it first), but I agree with the rest of your points.

 

JO is not DNF, Raven have never claimed their game will major on interactivity so it's not very wise to expect too much in that area.

There'll probably be some items that can be smashed up or cut through, but they'll be recognizably destructable and used as a means to an end (to allow progress into areas that are otherwise inaccesible most likely).

[scubactor]

Cyclone, perhaps you don't realize that Jedi Outcast and Half-Life are absolutely nothing alike, so the fact that you make Half-Life levels doesn't make you any smarter, especially considering they use two completely different engines. Nobody ever said anything about knocking everthing into stormtroopers, he just said that it would kick ass to be able to cut poles down. If you think that the Quake III engine is too limited you're very very wrong. Destructable environments would be incredibly easy to create. Ever played Elite Force? Which just happens to be Raven Software. Of course it would be possible to cut down poles, down think that it's something that's limited by the power of the software, or especially the engine. If they have the Saber leave permanent scars on the walls, I'm sure they can do much more with the environment.

Redfox is right about the Red Faction technology, which doesn't cause any hit to fram rate, contrary to what some people think. But it's Geo-Mod, not Geo-Morph.

[Guest X-Vector]

Originally posted by scubactor

Cyclone, perhaps you don't realize that Jedi Outcast and Half-Life are absolutely nothing alike, so the fact that you make Half-Life levels doesn't make you any smarter, especially considering they use two completely different engines. Nobody ever said anything about knocking everthing into stormtroopers, he just said that it would kick ass to be able to cut poles down. If you think that the Quake III engine is too limited you're very very wrong. Destructable environments would be incredibly easy to create. Ever played Elite Force? Which just happens to be Raven Software.

 

I've played EF, it's not a bad game by any means but it contains almost zero interactivity.

There's a number of consoles to activate, there's the odd elevator button to push, but that's about it.

Return to Castle Wolfenstein and Medal of Honor: Allied Assault are two more examples of Q3 powered games that score low on the interactivity chart.

Ironically, the game that originates from the older Quake I tech (but at the same time features by far the most radical engine improvements), Half-Life, is clearly the most interactive of the lot.

[Cyclone]

Originally posted by scubactor

Cyclone, perhaps you don't realize that Jedi Outcast and Half-Life are absolutely nothing alike, so the fact that you make Half-Life levels doesn't make you any smarter, especially considering they use two completely different engines. Nobody ever said anything about knocking everthing into stormtroopers, he just said that it would kick ass to be able to cut poles down. If you think that the Quake III engine is too limited you're very very wrong. Destructable environments would be incredibly easy to create. Ever played Elite Force? Which just happens to be Raven Software. Of course it would be possible to cut down poles, down think that it's something that's limited by the power of the software, or especially the engine. If they have the Saber leave permanent scars on the walls, I'm sure they can do much more with the environment.

Redfox is right about the Red Faction technology, which doesn't cause any hit to fram rate, contrary to what some people think. But it's Geo-Mod, not Geo-Morph.

 

Actually you would be surprised about how similar HL, Q1, Q3, Q3A, EF, HexenII, HereticII engines are. They use the same brush system to create worlds, they have the same map leak issues with the void, they use entities for all such items. You can actually remove the textures and enties from a map on one engine and import the map into a new engine. This why the same Radient editor can be used for all Id engine games (with certain game specific tweaks of course). So the fact that I did make Half-Life maps (and Quake II and Quake III) maps does make me smarter, because I know the limitations where you can just speculate.

 

I like how you say that it would be incredibly easy to create destructable environments in the Q3 engine. Oh yeah? Where do you see that? Not in RCTW, not in EF. Sure there are a few "blow up the doors or crypt" in a few select objectives. But not the regular world where every wall is fair game. It just doesn't happen because the engine is not designed that way. JKII uses that engine. You will not be able do it in JKII.

 

The changes made to id engines are usually outside of the world building code. Sure Valve added beam effects, Q3A introduced shaders, SOF introduced Ghoul on the models. Those aren't the kinds of tech improvements that even open up the possiblity of "destructable worlds". The saber scars are nothing more than the same decal technology that Valve used in HL to put blood on the walls, or Q3 Used to put bullet holes on the walls. That is not a Raven inovation. So like I said in my original post the mapper can intentionally make certain objects destructable, but they won't make the entire map destructable.

 

One of the first things you learn about making maps is leaks. Every map is a sealed environment. The sky is just as much of a brush as the floor. The just have different properties. Out side of this sealed map is the "Void". If at any point an entity in your map can see the Void, then you have a leak. Leaks are a no no. So you can see how a perimeter brush can not be an entity or else it would "leak". Only entis can be destroyed. Also in the past, entities would not be included in light calculations. That is why you would see light shining through a doorway even when the door was closed. If you make every wall out of entities, then there would be no light blocking or vis blocking and framerates would go nutz.

 

My experience has made me smarter than you , and your jump to try and use rationalization instead of knowledge makes you a stupid dummy head

 

Cyclone

 

PS: Ef was a lot of fun. I really liked the "evil parallel dimension" star fleet ship that was part of the bunch that was put together by the scanvengers. All they needed was an Evil Spock in that map. Hmm, don't recall any destructable levels in that game...

 

PSS: Still smarter than you

[Guest Jolts]

diss

[Guest X-Vector]

missed

[Cyclone]

Pissed?

[GlobuleSO]

kissed

[Kurgan]

Dark Forces 1 had a TON of destructable objects.. but of course, they were just texture decal changes (ie: shoot the lamp, and it goes dark), and cracks in walls you could blow up (much like the "slashable grates" in JK/MotS).

 

I imagine they will make some use of destructable/interactive objects, and the more the merrier I say, but I wouldn't expect anything on the level of <i>Red Faction</i> (and even that game had limits).

[Cyclone]

This taken from Raven Chat: Raven Chat

 

Drew Carey: How complex is the damage system for the environment? Will I be able to knock parts of building and structures by waving my saber or perhaps shooting at them?

 

Kevin S: Certain things are destroyable, but you can't just wreck everything in sight.

 

Just like I said.

 

Also, this little bonus since you tried to hammer me

 

scubactor: Are there any plans for an expansion pack in the works?

 

Graham F: How about we finish the main game first?

 

Ooooooo, now that was being dissed!

[DaAan]

i downloaded an E3 "interview" yesterday, and the guy playing one of the builds force sabre throwed, his lightsabre at a bridge type strcuture to make it fall down. so yeah cutting through stuff will be in.

he also shot some pipes with a storm trooper rifle so yea tis possible

[M@nd@lori@n]

Koool Drool....thanks for the info.That is something to look forward too.