SP Lightsaber more refined? *SPOILERS*

[Darkseed]

One last *bump* and then I'll let the thread die.

[dansolo]

I've actually seen things happen in MP that remind me of SP saber fights. Every once and a while the sabers do collide randomly. I think a little more saber collision would be cool though (without going into saber locks).

 

I also like the smoke & sparks that come from SP saber fights. Very movie-like. Another thing to add to the MP checklist?

[CriP Skywalker]

Man, I finally had my first SP Light Saber battle. All I can say is WOW! Raven, If there is anyway you can make MP just like SP, MP would be PERFECTION!!!

 

Gratz on making such a great game,

 

CriPPleR

 

[General Theros]

What do all of you think of the way your saber falls to the ground when it is deflected by another jedi in sp after a saber throw? I think it is great how you have to pull it back to you.....it's very movie like flipping over the enemy and pulling the saber to you like Obi did in episode 1 in the Darth Maul fight!

 

General Theros

[dansolo]

I really like the fallen saber aspect. Very cool. It shouldn't fall every time though...

[Muzzle]

Originally posted by dansolo

I also like the smoke & sparks that come from SP saber fights. Very movie-like. Another thing to add to the MP checklist?

 

They can only add but so much before it starts to hurt performance and get hundreds of posts all saying 'OMG LAAAAAG' on the boards. A more "realistic" saber fighting method alone would make me extra happy. If they can add some spiffy graphics on top of it, great, but I'd hate to see them throw in the kitchen sink and have it bog down the game.

 

On a side note, I think it'd be best if the better saber system would only work for duels. (The k button variety.) Why? Well, imagine a great, cinematic fight, locking sabers, then 4ZZR4pZ@R shoots them both in the head with the sniper rifle while they can't block. Having one's saber stuck against an opponent's can be a bad thing in a MP game when guns are present.

[Jedi Child]

hi, just adding my opinions.

I've been playing MP alot and i gotta say, dueling is what JK2:Outcast is all about. The duel mode is fantastic and is the best 1 on 1 action i've to experience in a multipay game.

 

I've since been playing SP, and i've only just got my lightsaber and headed off to the streets of nabaar. so far, i'm not really noticing a difference, apart from disembodiment, and better blocking of blaster fire, so i can't really comment on SP play. But i'd like to ask, when does lightsaber play "take-off", so to speak? around about what level? I hope it's not on the last, because i've got ages to play through yet?

 

One thing, i really missed the oppurtunity to stay some more at the jedi academy. I'd have loved to stay and actaully be taught by the jedi trainers, or play with the inquisotr, like luke does on the falcon. I didn't think it was a good idea to skip all that and head straight for the streets, as lightsaber training should have followed the force power pickup level, and showcased what the saber can do. I'm really quite disappointed that the story is missed out on that, and Kyle went off, a bit too early IMO. So far, i've really yet to distinguish between SP and MP sabers (but i'm still at early stages in the game).

 

When can i expect to have the saber duels in SP?

 

love the game (though Nadaar streets SP was immensely frustrating with those snipers!).

[Darkseed]

I agree that the saber should fall in MP too, although perhaps not as often as in SP, if this function was in MP it would make it alot more risky to throw the saber which would make people think twice before using their sabers like boomerangs.

 

 

Jedi Child, you can expect to have your first saber fight somewhere in cloud city

[synapse017]

I agree, MP could do with more saber clashes, etc.

 

(alright, i only wanted to bump this thread. but i do it for the good of the game)

[RaBBiTo]

I agree 100%.

 

If it wasn't too much trouble just an option of turning on and off SP sabre fighting in MP would keep everyone happy I bet.

[Emon]

The saber system in MP is the SAME as in SP. I'll explain why the SP fights are more intense.

 

When your fighting a Reborn in SP, you are fighting an AI controlled by the computer than knows exactly where your hits will land, it knows exactly how to counter each move and knows to swing instantly to counter the attack, it knows how to block and parry, and does all these calculations in an instant.

 

When your fighting a human player in MP, your fighting a person who doesn't know what you are going to do next, therefor doesn't know exactly what to do, how to block or how to swing, and no one can keep track of all that stuff at once. There's also lag to take into consideration which slows the game down quite a bit, even when pings are 50-60 they are still a bit slow. Play it on a 100 Mbps network with a switch and you'll experiance saber fights much more intense.

[d4rth_b0b4]

arrrghhhhh....... SP sabers in MP. /me drools

 

that would be cool u know what im sayin? ehh ehh?

[EekTheKat]

Originally posted by Emon

The saber system in MP is the SAME as in SP. I'll explain why the SP fights are more intense.

 

When your fighting a human player in MP, your fighting a person who doesn't know what you are going to do next, therefor doesn't know exactly what to do, how to block or how to swing, and no one can keep track of all that stuff at once. There's also lag to take into consideration which slows the game down quite a bit, even when pings are 50-60 they are still a bit slow. Play it on a 100 Mbps network with a switch and you'll experiance saber fights much more intense.

 

I disagree. Myself and many others on this forum have noticed glaring differences in the mechanics of the MP saber system that causes it to be much more different than the SP game.

 

Besides sabers passing through one another, sabers swings themselves are seemingly random at certain situations (i.e. standing still swing is random in MP, where as it's always a specific swing in SP).

 

The differences are especially more glaring if your opponent does know how to block, swing, or counterattack.

 

I *really* hope Raven addresses this in a patch of somesorts, and that this isn't a limitation of the Q3 engine and Q3 network code.

[RaBBiTo]

Also in the first page of this thread one of the Raven guys even said the lightsabre mechanics differ from SP to MP

[mrlove]

havent played saber battles in sp yet, but it definatly has my vote:) lasers going through eachothers i noticed thou,Raven could atleast try to implement the sp fighting into the mp 1-1 duelling?

 

GREAT works btw raven, I´m impressed.

[Emon]

You know what, you are right. I just noticed it as I played some more SP tonight, it IS faster, A LOT faster. I'm sure it's no Q3 engine limitation, it's just another thing done half-assed (like the thermals) that REALLY needs to be fixed. I don't really care about random swings when standing still, but for god sakes allow people in MP to experiance the SP duels, or at least as much as they can.

 

Also about the sabers going through people, I think that's due to lag and the Q3 netcode, nothing more.

[SiNNeR1]

well i support this as much as everyone else does(which is alot)

[grandmasterlee]

Ok ok I agree that MP saber fights need tweaking, here's a list of things:

 

1. Neutral swings should be consistant. In MP you do random swings.

 

2. Saber clash frequency needs to be increased, as it is you can stand toe to toe with someone and *try* to get in a clash and it doesn't work consistantly

 

3. You should be able to knock someone's saber out of their hand and out of the air if they throw it. Possibly make a parry move in defensive stance that only works against strong swings. Make thrown sabers fall just like in SP.

 

4. The unblockable strong stance jumping stab needs some tweaking:

 

As it is you can kill someone up to 2 seconds after you land if they run into you. Part of this is latency, but part is not. You can actually kill someone as you leave the ground, are in midair, land, AND for up to 2 seconds after you land. I've killed 2 people in one jump, one on the way up, and one on the way down.

 

Recovery should also take an additional 1/10th of a second or so. Currently you can rotate your stab as you land, which makes it very hard for someone to move in if you just rotate towards them as you land. They can't approach until you have recovered and can start moving unless they want to get hit with the 2 second delay at the end of the move. Granted its easy to force push/grip/throw saber but that has no bearing in pure saber fighting.

 

5. Getting hit while swinging should interrupt you, or fast stance should really be able to actually block strong stance. This would bring usage of fast and medium styles more into play as running around doing repeated slow swings would be suicide.\

 

Currently if you move in on someone doing slow swings you can dodge the first and start to hack away however they can just keep doing another mostly unblockable slow swing and kill you. True you can dart in and out but it's pretty boring circling someone from 25 feet out as they also circle away from your attempts to close. In addition, with any kind of latency you might not see the second swing animation start before you are skewered.

 

6. This isn't something I expect changed, but I just want to say that horizontal swings are clunky and a pain to do. Having to quickly release forward to tap left/right and swing to initiate a horizontal swing then quickly resume forward to advance on your opponent is a pain the butt. Not only that but it makes left-right-left-right fanning swings almost impossible to do as you will most likely perform the spinning attack after 2 or 3 swings.

 

The horizontal swing should be the bread and butter of light saber combat but its currently tricky for none but the most coordinated players to pull off repeatedly. I end up killing people 90% of the time because they can't do a horizontal swing properly, and I think the burden of blame is on the interface, not the person.

 

7. The middle style jumping attack that does a flip and swings downward doesn't reach deep enough, its almost impossible to hit a standing target with it, and since it has a long recovery after you land you never see it used unless someone does it on accident.

 

8. There should be an option to turn off unblockable guns like the Heavy Repeater, EMP, rocket launcher and flachette gun. Reason being that if the server has force powers turned off, there is no defense other than a similar weapon. This is the only time I would say people are justified in *****ing about JK not being quake.

 

9. There should be a straight stab move. Slashing is cool, but if the guy is standing right in front of me I should be able to skewer him.

 

10. For capture the flag levels absorb is king. If the server is set to Dark side vs. Light side and you get a map with lots of pit action, light side has a huge advantage.

 

11. You should be able to initiate a swing as you come out of a roll. It can have a delay for balance, but being able to do a rolling attack sure would be nice.

 

That's about all that comes to mind. Love this game.

 

[FWB]

Originally posted by grandmasterlee

Ok ok I agree that MP saber fights need tweaking, here's a list of things:

 

1. Neutral swings should be consistant. In MP you do random swings.

 

I just recently noticed that too, and it really ruins the MP experience.

 

3. You should be able to knock someone's saber out of their hand and out of the air if they throw it. Possibly make a parry move in defensive stance that only works against strong swings. Make thrown sabers fall just like in SP.

 

That would be neat. I get fed up with those constant sabre throws. They're easy to block, but the guy/gal I'm fighting seems to have no other moves. If we could push or pull the weapon so it drops to the floor, they might think twice.

 

The horizontal swing should be the bread and butter of light saber combat but its currently tricky for none but the most coordinated players to pull off repeatedly. I end up killing people 90% of the time because they can't do a horizontal swing properly, and I think the burden of blame is on the interface, not the person.

 

I find this is all that some people do, but light sabre combat does need to be fixed. It needs to be faster in MP, much faster. As it is there's no difference between it and medium.

 

9. There should be a straight stab move. Slashing is cool, but if the guy is standing right in front of me I should be able to skewer him.

 

Another neat idea, but you do have one, of sorts, the light lunge. Hold onto crouch, move forward and attack.

 

11. You should be able to initiate a swing as you come out of a roll. It can have a delay for balance, but being able to do a rolling attack sure would be nice.

 

Definately a must. I now never use rolls to move towards the enemy, its suicidal. I was disappointed when I realised that you're completely defenseless coming out of one.

[Patton]

Another bump from me.

 

While the MP saber is fun, the SP saber system left a fruity taste explosion in my mouth that lasted for hours post-fight.

 

I can understand the concern over lag, but perhaps a server option to turn it on is required? I don't know how that would work... maybe just tell it to use a different .dll file. I'm not all too keen on the Q3:TA engine, so I can't tell anyone for sure, but I'd definetly like Raven to do this. I support mod-makers, but this feels like it should be an in-house job, worthy of developer attention.

 

After their vacation of course.

[Jedi Child]

also, in MP, please tweak the fast style so that it is actually visually a lot faster, as right now, fast and medium stance swings seem the same speed!

[Moleculor]

Agreed. Light and medium seem the same speed and... bah... I'll just post it to the patch thread. I -want- SP saber in MP!

[Sofa81]

Well If the Saber fight where like to ones in SP. You would have to have extreamly larg packedts to be sent in MP which would caus horendus ping times. Im talking like 500-700 ping even if your on cabule. Causing 56k palyers to not even be able to play at all.

[Gotgrog]

the best thing about the saber sp fights is when ur parrying etc. and you jump and look down and swing and you sort of carry on attacking in the air as you jump over their head it looks awesome and i would love to watch my saber fights from a third person view literally so the camera wasn't behind me but swung or looked over both of us that would be so cool. like a soccer game you could load a replay of a particular saber fight ))

[grandmasterlee]

quote:

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9. There should be a straight stab move. Slashing is cool, but if the guy is standing right in front of me I should be able to skewer him.

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Another neat idea, but you do have one, of sorts, the light lunge. Hold onto crouch, move forward and attack.

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That's not a thrust though, its a lunging upward slash. From a standing position there should be at least one straight stab/thrust move under one of the three styles, I would say the fast stance as it would then parallel the stab you perform with back+attack when an enemy is behind you.