Not real impressed with the Single player game

[jedi-redemption]

navaros i so hope your not married. you may put backup points for your reasoning but they are little things like *i wanna hear the hole F**King song not just 10 minutes* you are lucky. i dont have sound anymore suince my dad broke the sound card. if it matters to you so much then why dont you swich to the playstation on n64 starwars games. atleast if you dont like them they have no forums to spam. what games do you like navaros ? ms.pacman ?

[jedi-redemption]

what games do you like?

and can you put a list of things you dont like about the game?

i meen everything you dont like about it

[Zagadka]

Sorry, I have to agree with Navaros a little bit here.

 

I dislike pixel hunting. I dislike stupid jumping puzzles.

 

Things like the Comm System activation were ASININE. Entirely pointless system that makes absolutely no sense - why the bloody hell would the Imperials make a HUGE room with 4 stories of boxes with cryptic buttons with no pathways? And why would they use this system to turn on their com system? And why would the com system be off before a major attack?

 

So you get to spend 20 minutes jumping between rooms looking for symbols. The jumping is really easy. There is absolutely no challenge - it is just time consuming, look through the haystack for a needle.

 

Same deal with the hanger on the asteroid. Easy enough to activate the doors, then you have to look for the grate that can be opened. After that, you walk through the silly corridors (whose presence makes as much sense as the comm system deal) and press buttons to open doors. No sequence, no maze. Just press buttons.

 

Yavin just pissed me off because I spent more time picking through the area trying to find the next valley than I did fighting anyone.

 

Things like that piss me off. Puzzles that make no sense and have almost no point. Puzzles like the sneaking mission are good.

 

There were plenty of good and bad things in the missions - more of the good, but a good chunk of bad.

 

And as far as Force sides... well, I am a role player. It makes no sense to me to control both sides, especially when it has no effect on the story. Like someone said - JK1's story with this game would rock.

[Darksider]

Heres some specific examples then

 

Graphics : Whatever Navaros has been smoking to give him visions of doom 1 graphics , the models textures and graphical effects in JK 2 are nothing short of stunning . When i saw my first stormtrooper up close on kejim i was blown away . Every animation is done well, especially the death animations of which there as many animations as there are ways of killing a stormie.

 

Sound : The star wars score is done brilliantly , dumping in a bunch of tracks from the movie wouldve been a quick and easy copout but reworking the themes so they actually fit with whats going on in the game so perfectly took effort. If you want to listen to a whole theme just because you like hearing it , well thats what cd players and winamp are for.

 

Controls : The controls in the game are incredibly intuitive , especially the saber. Unlike jk1 you can access almost everything now without having to scroll, force jump integrated with normal jumping , hotkeyable force for everything else , saber throw being the alt fire of saber rather than an activated force power and guiding the saber is an art - Die by the sword was the only other game to attempt an indepth sword working system and unfortunately it failed miserably , jk2 pulls this off near flawlessly in single player and not much worse in multi.

 

Character : The game is faithful to the star wars universe and really immerses you, from stormtrooper chatter about stupid officers to bragging about the biggest ships theyve been on to integrating elements from the EU (extended universe ie the books etc) such as cortosis ore you really do get the feel that this IS a star wars game, not a weak star wars mod for quake 3. Hell even the innacuracy of the stormtrooper rifles is in there! (and the stormtroopers complain about it too!)

 

The force : Brilliant . Just Brilliant . The amount of varying ways of using the force powers and the way they are seamlessly integrated into the game (anyone remember mad scrolling and activation in jk1?) makes you FEEL like a jedi , not some wannabe swinging a saber.

 

The puzzles : Yes , some of them are intensely frustrating if you dont see them . The thinking component of the game is DIFFICULT . GOOD! I dont want a game i can load up and run from tutorial to final boss without getting stopped along the way . It excercises mental prowess as well as fingertwitching , and you derive immense satisfaction when you finally solve it on your own . Admit it , when you finished the jedi trials you were proud . I could find no evidence of 'pixel hunting' any objects you can and must interact with are clearly definable and seperate from the rest of the environment.

 

 

Hows that then navaros? you cant seem to come up with half of that in facts about why the game supposedly sucks , its all "i dont like this waah"

 

i still cant get over the whole doom 1 comment , sometimes i think you may indeed be smoking crack

[Mustang76]

Pixel Hunting?!?!? I thought the switches were pretty easy to spot if not impossible to miss after the first level.

 

Sure they could have included the big glowing red signs of what was required like Medal of Honor but the game would have been over in 6 hrs (thats how long a second run took me, knowing all the solutions). If that was the case I guarentee you would have had a helluva lot more pissed off people than we have at the moment. The original JK was a monster of game and Raven had to really deliver the goods with this one in terms of length and atmosphere or it would have booed and hissed until my throught was sore. As it stands though, while not being to everyones tastes, it does bring back fond memories of JK and I believe that's what Raven were trying to achieve not punch out another clone of every other FPS on the market.

[Wicket the Ewok]

I have to agree with the original poster on two points.

 

1) It *feels* and *looks* like Quake 3 with different skins/maps and a light saber. It's hard to put into words why but it's probably a mixture of the crosshair, the detail of the arcitechture and the speed of deathmatch games.

 

2) Jump puzzles should have died a horrible death with the 16-bit platform games that utilised them so often. They're irritating and they show a total lack of imagination.

 

I like JK2 but it's not up to the hype.

 

[jedi-redemption]

think the thing that gets us so r4g3d about navaros is that he STATES what he thinks and doesnt ask other peoples oppinions. ITS LIKE THIS GAME IS CRAP END OF STORY

 

rather than

 

i dont like this game very much but i am open to opposition.

 

 

navaros nos he can r4g3 peeps without them fighting back because he nos they will get moderated.

[Jedi Nizar]

Originally posted by Darksider

Heres some specific examples then

 

Graphics : Whatever Navaros has been smoking to give him visions of doom 1 graphics , the models textures and graphical effects in JK 2 are nothing short of stunning . When i saw my first stormtrooper up close on kejim i was blown away . Every animation is done well, especially the death animations of which there as many animations as there are ways of killing a stormie.

 

Sound : The star wars score is done brilliantly , dumping in a bunch of tracks from the movie wouldve been a quick and easy copout but reworking the themes so they actually fit with whats going on in the game so perfectly took effort. If you want to listen to a whole theme just because you like hearing it , well thats what cd players and winamp are for.

 

Controls : The controls in the game are incredibly intuitive , especially the saber. Unlike jk1 you can access almost everything now without having to scroll, force jump integrated with normal jumping , hotkeyable force for everything else , saber throw being the alt fire of saber rather than an activated force power and guiding the saber is an art - Die by the sword was the only other game to attempt an indepth sword working system and unfortunately it failed miserably , jk2 pulls this off near flawlessly in single player and not much worse in multi.

 

Character : The game is faithful to the star wars universe and really immerses you, from stormtrooper chatter about stupid officers to bragging about the biggest ships theyve been on to integrating elements from the EU (extended universe ie the books etc) such as cortosis ore you really do get the feel that this IS a star wars game, not a weak star wars mod for quake 3. Hell even the innacuracy of the stormtrooper rifles is in there! (and the stormtroopers complain about it too!)

 

The force : Brilliant . Just Brilliant . The amount of varying ways of using the force powers and the way they are seamlessly integrated into the game (anyone remember mad scrolling and activation in jk1?) makes you FEEL like a jedi , not some wannabe swinging a saber.

 

The puzzles : Yes , some of them are intensely frustrating if you dont see them . The thinking component of the game is DIFFICULT . GOOD! I dont want a game i can load up and run from tutorial to final boss without getting stopped along the way . It excercises mental prowess as well as fingertwitching , and you derive immense satisfaction when you finally solve it on your own . Admit it , when you finished the jedi trials you were proud . I could find no evidence of 'pixel hunting' any objects you can and must interact with are clearly definable and seperate from the rest of the environment.

 

 

Hows that then navaros? you cant seem to come up with half of that in facts about why the game supposedly sucks , its all "i dont like this waah"

 

i still cant get over the whole doom 1 comment , sometimes i think you may indeed be smoking crack

 

God bless you.

all other one just don't play or replay it if you don't like it.

[Darf]

Hmmm, ok, first of all I didn't find any jumps especially difficult in this game, not even the platform with the rocket spamming trooper, just pushed his rox back in his face and jumped in peace. And the jumps were not extremely hard, but not extremely easy either. They were good jumps.

 

The reason for that is you have fairly more air control in JK2 (not to mention force jumping) than you do in normal Q3. Since I play lots of Q3 I have learned how to control my player's movement much better since the game requires a lot of skill in that aspect.

 

Which brings me to my next point...what I see in all the negative reviews is mostly Q3 bashing. Fine and cool if you don't like Q3, no one cares, least of all not me. All that tells me is that you suck terribly at it so it must be a bad game. Which is good cuz no one likes newbs in our Q3 servers. So stay out, kthx

 

So how do you review JK2 based on your opinion of a completely different game? You can't. So stop doing it. Wanna bash Q3? Go to a Q3 bashing forum and tell them all to suck goatballs. But you cannot say "JK2 sucks because it was built on the engine that powers Q3A". Thats utter bull**** and MDiaz is correct in his assesment of your smoking habits.

 

As far as Star Wars and the Force goes, these "force powers" were created for the games, there is no bad or good force powers in the movies. The way one uses the force is simply by manipulating it to suit his needs and help him in his tasks. "A Dark Jedi will choose the quick and easy path". Quickly choking the life out of opponents or stealing their energy and basically trying for a quick kill in order to avoid harm to himself or use others for his own benefit. Helping himself.

 

"A good Jedi will choose the harder path".Using the force to heal himself without depending on somone else and be a more defensive warrior (protect,absorb). Helping others.

 

Good or Light side is harder and longer therefore its more difficult to play as a good jedi in the game. And thats why its so very easy to play as a dark jedi....I think Raven did a good job on this "balance" of the force. And if you wanted to really play this game in character I dare you to go up against those dreaded Drain/Grip/Lightning duelists just using push/pull and heal :-) After all Luke fought Vader who was a master, compared to Luke Vader was a god.

 

Katarn on the other hand is simply Han Solo with the Force as his ally. He is a Dark Jedi because inherently he uses the force when he needs it for himself. In this case its completely selfish what he does. But his hate/anger is controlled because he's smart and streetwise, like Solo. Thats why he doesnt go nuts trying to take over the Galaxy. He just wants to be with his woman :-)

 

And as for that Navaros guy, dude you're hilarious, keep up the good work. Every time I read one of your posts I laugh my ass off and I imagine you sitting in front of your computer for like 14 hours trying to jump up on some crate and swearing like a madman cuz you suck too much. You're probably still stuck in level one trying to figure out how to open that first door but you can't jump so you keep falling off that cliff. Oh and JK2 sucks with a gamepad, try using mouse/keyboard!

[jedi-redemption]

just to inform you i read the first 3 words of that and gave up. i just cant be bothered with you anymore.

[Darth Lunatic]

Navaros, have you ever thought of writing a thesis on the "The Flaws of Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast"

 

You seem to be absolutely fascinated by it's weaknesses, and are intent on making sure we are all aware of them too.

 

Just out of interest, could you tell me your 5 favourite games?

[Darf]

Well for your first stupid example there is a ledge going around the room with enough room for one person to walk on. If I can walk on there then there must be a reason its there. So I will go there and check it out...oh? look at that! a crate that blows up! They are all over the first level and I have been blowing them up regularly! Hint?

 

For your second stupid example there is a security camera in a room next to the "red room" which clearly shows you the area with the pipe. Unless you're a complete idiot you must realize at this point that all the security cameras provide clues to something in the game. In every level the cameras give clues to something.

 

And for your furthermore stupidity of an example, there is no other way out of that pipe but through the red room, and since we already know that we need to ride that damn car somewhere then there must be a way to go in that room unharmed. Oh? whats this? Looks like sumthn I can place ONE det pack on and blow it up! This way I can destroy the heater (thats what was damaging you, idiot) plus I can get back to that room and climb that ridiculously easy hint of a light fixture or whatever it is so I can get on top of the car...if I can climb there, there's a reason for it. Remeber this little rule in FPS games.

 

Basically you're like the dumbest gamer I ever seen, you're not average and please do not speak for the average gamer. They are a lot smarter then you. Homer Simpson is a rocket scientist compared to your monkey brain.

 

thx, gg, stfu and gtfo

[Darth Lunatic]

From reading his posts he seems like a hack who can't play the game.

 

Navaros seemed to have an ENORMOUS amount of difficulty understanding how to pass levels. So much so, that he is trying to vent his frustration on these forums by claiming the game is very poor.

 

Level 3: You have to go outside after the big Storm Trooper ambush. I went outside, looked ALL over the place, found nothing. I thought I must need to go to another part of the level. So I spent about 6 hours wandering around the rest of the level, going back to the spot where you can go outside several times in case I missed something. Still saw nothing there.

 

6 hours? How crap are you? There is undeniable proof that Navaros is skilless hack. Please Navaros don't get angry at the game because you suck at it.

 

Darf, you and I seem to agree on Navaros inablity to play a fairly straightforward game!

[Darksider]

Darf and Darth Lunatic have hit the nail on the head - You are simply inept and are looking to blame it on the game.

 

Ledge in level 1 - its there for a reason is it not? I can see windows over there perhaps ill investigate

 

Looking through either window at any angle (perhaps you need corrective lenses?) i see a switch . I cant push the switch from here i know that . Whats that next to it? A big explosive crate we were introduced to in the first seconds of the level and have seen since? perhaps ill shoot at i.. BOOM

 

lookit that! The switch got triggered! Huzzah!

 

Think outside the box , its not quake

 

Also Darf is right , the security cameras are there to give you hints , everything about that puzzle was perfectly logical and structured , it just seems to be beyond your limited capacity to comprehend something beyond pressing the trigger.

[plfromden]

I agree with you completely.

 

The jumps are - well, you said it better than me, but let me try anyway - pointless, frustrating, boring, add nothing to an action game and are pure filler.

 

The pixel hunts are dependent not on intelligence but anal obsessiveness, the willingness or need to probe every corner or orifice of the body of the game.

 

The fact that some people are 'good jumpers' doesnt effect this arguement. Good for them! They enjoy something I don't.

 

I bought this game havein mixed feelings as a result of the comments I read here and elsewhere. I was aware that the game 'didnt get good till you got the saber' but I didn't realize it was downright boring.

 

I am on level 3 or 4 and I have not enjoyed ANY of the game. I hate searching for keys and locks and doors. I hate jumping. I love action games like MOH or Quake or CS.

 

This game is an atavism - a throwback to an earlier style of game beyond which so many have evolved.

 

The only question for me is can I torture myself for another boring level hoping the light saber is worth it?

 

OH AND BY THE WAY - those of you who are attacking, Taliban-like, Navaros's right to post here - look up your First Amendment and try to realize that attacking him for attacking the game is real low. AND ALSO it serves a VERY useful function for those considering buying the game to be able to read various points of view.

[thrEEpaGe]

i do believe that navaros should be allowed to express his opinion fully...DUH....on the other hand, us that enjoy the game have every right to defend our view...DUH..but anyway, a few comments about various posts on this thread

 

 

first...you (i cant remember anyone specifically, so if you are you, you are you heh) complain about the crosshair moving when you move to a target....i wholeheartedly agree with you on this one...i hate hte dynamic crosshair on that thing....however, you can easily turn it off at the console (visit raven's site for it i dont remember hte capitalization of hte command)

 

on a different post you complained about the music

now personally, i really did wish that the music was much more loud and more frequent, but the music that you do have is somewhat cool, and kind of gives a mood change to the game...if you want to listen to straight up music, pop in a trilogy soundtrack and/or a jk1 disc in your cd player and hit play....

 

but as for gameplay, kyle did skirt with the dark side (HELLOOOO MotS????), and did give luke his saber, and basically renounced the force...as he said in the game, becasue of the runins w/ teh dark side, he didnt like it....

 

sorry this is so all over the place

 

about him using lightning....okay...lukey boy himself blew up an entire moon sized space installation...thousands if not millions of stormies....now THAT is not evil, but using grip on a guy is? come on.....grip is freaking telekinesis...it is giving the game one more way to manipulate your powers into something more malleable...

and the same thing goes for lightning....just because it is associated with evil ddaaaaaa emperor.....heh does not mean that it is purely evil (you can push people off of chasms, but that is a neutral power)....

i dont find anything wrong with kyley using lightning/grip

 

and i definitely dont have a problem with healing dark jedis in MP

 

well thats all that i can remember from your posts....

[patchx]

while there are some puzzles in the game that r illogical and daft (communications array, trying to navigate the swamp, that room full of extendable box things that changed patterns everytime u pressed a switch) the 2 you chose to use in order to illustrate your point were two of the easiest, sensible puzzles in the game.

 

your just proving to everyone that you are without the meagre amount of patience needed to succesfully complete even these simple early "puzzles" (pixel hunting? i dont know what ur seeing but the switch next to the explodo crate was a big red lit thing according to my screen)

 

youve made heaps of these posts, do you seriously think your gonna convince anyone of your argument?

 

the only reason u post is to pi** people off

why dont u just give up?

 

 

-patch

[Jedi Nizar]

NAVAROS

 

it seems that you don't like puzzels, pixel or jump, you don't like any puzzel. if you know from the begening where to go you will finish the game in 1 Houre maximum. and if they made a puzzel sure they will not make too much detail so that you can slove it in 1 or 2 minute. it's calles puzzel.

I was disapointed in some area too, an I thought that I shood come here and ask for help.

example: the red Room, the switch in level 2, the floor with those green beems, at bespin the jump. but I slove them all alone without cheating and I'm so happy I really enjoyed to slovethem specialy the oe with the green beems, it tooks 1 houre to slove it.

 

and for jo ist star wars mod for Q3??!! I don't know I never played Quack1,2or 3 (it's forbiden here in Germany) so when I played Jo it was the first time that I had the feeling I'm in a star wars universe, not even JK1 or Darkforces gived to me this feeling.

 

I like jo for me JO is the best Star Wars Game ever!!!!

I hope for an expansion

[thrEEpaGe]

im sorry, but it is

 

S-O-L-V-E

 

=)

[thrEEpaGe]

personally, i enjoyed quite a few of the jo puzzles, but some of them reminded me of the TPM annoyances...by the way, dont mind all of the jumping....in deathmatch in ANY fps, jumping is critical to survival, and jumping across a space is very easy with any practice or a little perseverance....

[Dreadnaught]

I finished the game last night. It was the first game I finished in I can't remember how long.

 

Totally enjoyable. I loved figuring out the puzzles (didn't read a single spoiler) and the light saber fights with the Reborn were simply awesome.

 

Sorry, but negative opinions of the game didn't detract one iota from my enjoyment. So those who keep harping about how "bad" JKII is...well, frankly, you're just pitiful. Learn to live with the fact that not everyone has the same tastes as you.

[Sterling]

I think you're having video card issues.

 

At this point you have to look through a particular window which has no rational spatial-relation to any area that you need to access. When looking through this window, you can just BARELY see what appears to be a switch, and even then you can ONLY see the small part of the switch-pixels if you are looking through that window from ONE EXACT ANGLE. When you put your cursor over that switch, the cursor is greyed-out. When the cursor is greyed-out, that means you CAN NOT interact with the object you are highlighting. To solve this "puzzle", not only do you have to be in a ridiculous position to even see part of the switch-pixels, you also have to FIRE on the switch even though your cursor is greyed-out. Otherwise you'd be stuck at that part of the game forever.

 

No spatial relation? A raised platform with a retracted bridge by a door doesn't clue you in to a spatial relation? Maybe you didn't see the retracted bridge due to some video difficulties, I know I did.

 

I saw the switch just fine, from across the room. When I got close I also saw the explosive crate right in front of the switch. It was the same type of explosive crate you'd seen for the past two levels, and I remember more than once someone blowing up a switchbox to open a door.

 

Is this a PUZZLE? Does this require ANY thought? No. All it does it force you to look at EVERY SINGLE piece of every level by standing at every imaginable point of the level. Does that require thought? Not at all. It's PIXEL-HUNTING at it's worse.

 

If you could see the things I saw, it was a puzzle, yes. One I found fairly easy.

 

I am sure newbies are reading this right now and saying: "I bet there can't be ANY worse example of pixel-hunting... that is ridiculous!"

 

I sincerely hope not, since your experience does not reflect mine, and may not reflect theirs.

 

Level 3: You have to go outside after the big Storm Trooper ambush. I went outside, looked ALL over the place, found nothing. I thought I must need to go to another part of the level. So I spent about 6 hours wandering around the rest of the level, going back to the spot where you can go outside several times in case I missed something. Still saw nothing there.

 

I don't know where you read about invisble pipes, I saw the pipes just fine, as soon as I turned the corner from the valley. The problem I had is that the pipes I did see kept blowing up from under me, which is understandable given the meteor storm going on at the time.

 

The ONLY way I was able to figure out this so-called "puzzle" was to READ what was supposed to be done. Here is the solution:

 

Go outside and WAIT until you see a pipe extend. Stand in one spot, and stay there until a pipe extends, and this pipe is not visible at all UNTIL it extends.

 

How is an average gamer supposed to figure THAT out?

 

You're not the average gamer here, Navaros, surely you must realize that by now judging byt he fact that maybe 2% of the posters here agree with your views. I also doubt the average gamer would have the video card problems you must be having.

 

Does this require any thought? Is this good game design? No on both accounts. This is HORRIBLE game design.

 

It's a HORRIBLE video card driver. Don't blame Raven or try to convince me that the game I enjoyed more than any other single player shooter was crap.

 

As if that was not bad enough, once I found the pipe by reading about what needs to be done, I dropped to the pipe, and dropped lower. Then I relaxed in the tunnel below, happy to have finally reached a new area. I went to the start of the next room at the other end of the tunnel, and did a Quicksave. A few seconds later, I am DYING for no reason. My health is counting down from 100 to zero in less than 10 seconds, for NO LOGICAL REASON AT ALL. The only way to stop this from happening is to shoot 5 Red Cylinders in the room. But guess what? Unless you RANDOMLY MOVED THROUGH THE TUNNEL AS FAST AS POSSIBLE AS SOON AS YOU ENTERED IT, there is NO TIME to shoot all 5 Red Cylinders. You will die. If you happened to have saved or Quicksaved your game after entering the tunnel and not moving through it as fast as possible, you are screwed. There is no possible way to kill the Cylinders before you die.

 

I beat the game, and just replayed it from the beginning. I saw no red cylinders that needed to be destroyed, or even could be destroyed. You're going to need screenshots to back this claim.

 

I defy any of you to dispute these points. I have been extremely detaild and specific here, so if you dispute me, provide the same amount of detail.

 

Okie, done. I really think you may be having video card issues. If you can post screenshots, I'll go to the same point on my PC and show you what I see.

[Sterling]

Originally posted by plfromden

OH AND BY THE WAY - those of you who are attacking, Taliban-like, Navaros's right to post here - look up your First Amendment and try to realize that attacking him for attacking the game is real low. AND ALSO it serves a VERY useful function for those considering buying the game to be able to read various points of view.

 

I disagree. Saying, "I disliked the puzzles, this puzzle was annoying, this puzzle was annoying" would be useful. His posts now border on meaningless, wandering rants. If I were considering picking up this game, I'd ignore him without question due to the style and tone of his delivery.

[Kurgan]

I'm suprised we haven't had more complaints about the guns. I played MP (and botmatch) right off the bat, and loved it. Had a ball....

 

But when I picked up SP, (even though I knew there were significant differences in gameplay) I was heavily annoyed by the fact that the guns accuracy dropped exponentially. I have had a real hard time emerging from any firefight without wasting incredible amounts of ammo and taking far more hits than necessary, when in an MP situation, I could have emerged unscatched. I have heard from several friends of mine playing the SP game that agreed that the game got much better once you get the force/saber.

 

I remember DF, JK, MotS, and JK2 MP, none of them had guns this inaccurate. At first I thought the low accuracy of the guns in SP was due to autoaim problems, but even turning that off didn't help much. Basically anytime I had to use a blaster, I had to prepare to have most of my shots miss, and take a few hits, or else make a firefight with a single enemy go on for a looong time. ; p

 

I'll eventually finish the SP game, but that really brought down the experience for me. It was great and all, I really liked it, but the guns factor was quite disapointing.

 

I'm not jumping on any bandwagons here, that's my honest opinion. I give this game high marks for its multiplayer component...

 

Also I'd like to remind the posters in this thread that there is NO NEED for personal insults to be traded in a thread like this. Just because somebody doesn't like something that you like, you don't need to take it personally and flame him/her. The same goes for critiquing a game. It can be done without insulting people. Nobody has to like this game, and people can come here even if they don't think it's GOTY. But let's try to be civil here.

[ps2maddenman]

I can only respond to #1 on the original posters list

 

LEARN TO QUICKSAVE (F12) AND QUICKLOAD (F9)