Most Extensive Mod...EVER

[Rajess MoDuron]

Note to reader, I have HS level C++ skill, ONLY, they wouldn't let me take it at the College level because of my math score on the little dumb test they had. Apparently 620 on the SAT is not enough to be a CS minor. I cannot do this alone.

 

There are at the time of AotC, 7 different Lightsaber combat techniques. You know this if you have been following the spoilers a little bit, as T-bone had an article on it a little while ago.

 

Each form has it's own strengths and weaknesses, and each form was designed specifically to combat something either environmental or agressoral (word? I don't think so).

 

Here is a brief description of each form, as I understand them. T-bone only described the ones seen in AotC, so I have to elaborate and invent somewhat. When the team is assembled of course, this will all be hashed out, but for now it's only me. (How sad that I only have HS level C++ knowledge.

 

Form I: Closest I can come is Kyle Katarn in Jedi Knight. Simple and not showy, this form would be most effective in the hands of a novice, someone without the training to use some of the other forms. Would likely have a defense bonus and a force effectiveness bonus. I'll define all of this later.

 

Form II: Elegant and quick, this saber form is most like the present day and 18th century fencing styles, with quick harrasing attacks made at the perimeter of an opponent's guard meant to inflict hamstringing wounds and dismemberment rather than the one killing blow. Count Dooku wields this form in Episode II. Quick on the defense, but due to the concentration necessary should probably include a penalty to force effectiveness when attacks in progress. Percentage of blaster bolts reflected back should also suffer a penalty, so as to create parity with the forms.

 

Form III: Developed at a time where energy weapons like blasters were more and more often falling into the hands of enemies of the Jedi, this form evolved from training exercises meant to increase a Jedi's deflection of blaster bolts. A defensive form, it is the fastest form, but as a result, requires the most concentration of any of the forms. As a consequence, force effectiveness should be very low, but defense, speed, and the percentage of blaster bolts reflected back at the origin should be very high. Obi-Wan Kenobi studied this form after Qui-Gon Jinn's death.

 

Form IV: The most agressive form that the Jedi study, this form uses wide, fast, sweeping motions intent on picking up momentum and knocking your opponent off balance. Every parry is an attack in itself, and as this form is not for those who remain on the defensive, quickness is essential. Average at blocking blaster fire back at it's target, and slightly below average in the more agressive force use, this is a form for those who wish to end combat quickly and are confident they will make few mistakes.

Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader use this form.

 

Form V: Little is known about this form, therefore I will confer with those who join the team on it. May be a form that uses two lightsabers, may be a form that requires lots of throwing and spinning...who knows?

 

Form VI: Because VII is very straight forward and to the point, this should probably be the most elaborate form in the repetoir.

 

Form VII: A combination of modern day fencing and Kendo styles, this is the style Mace Windu uses. Should be the hardest to pull off, but when used by someone who knows what they are doing, should also be the most effective.

 

 

If my idea tickles your fancy, let me know. I don't need to be a major part of the Mod, but I would like at the least to have creative input and be a beta tester. I can also be organizer, I'm pretty good at that. But as I could not contribute much codewise initially, it doesn't make much sense for me to be end all be all boss.

 

If you're interested, email me!

 

sethyruxpin@aol.com

 

padawanrajess@cs.com

 

chexmaniac@hotmail.com (for some reason having trouble accessing, so use this as a last resort)

 

my AIM is alkalineruxpin. I don't have ICQ, and really haven't been all that impressed by it, so you ICQ snobs just email me.

 

Thanks!

 

Rajess

[Swamp]

....sounds interesting?

[darthpikachu]

With so many forms..i would think it would be pretty much near impossible to figure out which form ur opponent is using unless each have a different stance.....but even that, ur opponent have to be standing still for u to figure out which form they are using....

also the main difference between different forms would be force penalties and blocking/damage etc....thus not really different forms as it's more closer to what kind of advantage and penalty would player like to have.

 

if ur thinking about developing multiple attack stances...u might as well keep the number down like 5 forms where 4 single handed forms each with their own advantages and disadvantages + a 5th 2 bladed saber(darth maul??? personally i'd think 2 bladed lightsabre is cumbersom and dangerous for the user... since u can only grip the middle part...)

then u can develepe differnet stances by the way the player grips the saber(ie..elegent fast stance is 1 handed only....extreme heavy stance would have the saber behind the player like the guy in lastblade2 etc....)

[Jidai]

I think it should include a system to 'master' these styles correctly. Like if you use a more dangerous style wrong, you cut your own arm off, or something...

[TigZy]

Originally posted by darthpikachu

With so many forms..i would think it would be pretty much near impossible to figure out which form ur opponent is using unless each have a different stance.....but even that, ur opponent have to be standing still for u to figure out which form they are using....

 

I don't see your point. Why do you need to know what stance they're using? In a mod like this, knowing how your opponent will attack is detrimental to winning, but this is the type of thing which will be denoted by how the opponent actually attacks, not the way he holds his saber.

 

Originally posted by darthpikachu

Also the main difference between different forms would be force penalties and blocking/damage etc....thus not really different forms as it's more closer to what kind of advantage and penalty would player like to have.

 

No, the main difference between the forms would be different attacking/defense styles. Rajess said this, but included the force penalties and such to note, realistically, what penalties would incur if the style is used. I doubt that he'd be able to breifly go in depth about what attacks and so forth the styles would use, which would be why he only mentioned this breifly, or glossed over it.

 

Originally posted by darthpikachu

if ur thinking about developing multiple attack stances...u might as well keep the number down like 5 forms where 4 single handed forms each with their own advantages and disadvantages + a 5th 2 bladed saber(darth maul??? personally i'd think 2 bladed lightsabre is cumbersom and dangerous for the user... since u can only grip the middle part...)

then u can develepe differnet stances by the way the player grips the saber(ie..elegent fast stance is 1 handed only....extreme heavy stance would have the saber behind the player like the guy in lastblade2 etc....)

 

I'm afraid the posters intent was to bring the 7 lightsaber combat stances around the time of AotC to JK2 in a mod form, rather than make up his own. Though perhaps if the mod ends up getting along well more styles might be added.

[Darth Valinor]

Where is this 7 forms of lightsaber combat coming from? None of the movies ever talk about that. I don't think any of the books go into that sort of detail either. I'm just wondering where this idea that there are 7 distinct forms of lightsaber combat comes from. The trailers for AotC does not show enough action to be able to get all this information...

[AV4T4R]

1) What is AOTC?

 

2) Ideas are really good, but dont use so many forms,

 

Just make something like

 

Blue stance : Stab and straight shot, really fast style, enable u to have a block degres ov.. 80 Degrees, make small damage, u can make fast ISTANT shot with this move, and u can combo togheter till 4 or 5 consecutive fast moves, then u'r player just rest for 1 second! ( remember run backward speed should be reduced to the half of the forward one )

 

Yellow stance : A stance based on large spinning shot, but WIHTOUT the jk2 spinning system, just something like medium charge slash, mainly based on orizontal slash, and with combo that can be able take also 180 ° degrees of range

block system reduced to 40 degrees.

 

Red Stance : Mainly based on large charge assault, with combo able to slash really hard, this shot need a charge time and a rest time, and it's slow but ALSO if u block, u take some damage from it ( or it will be too much disvanataged ) so it can be blocked at your risk, best way should be avoid it.

 

then make the players SLOWER.. a middle way between SLOW speed and RUN speed and make evasive manovre shorter adn faster, i mean, example:

U'r chargin me with a red vertical strike, i stand to block it, and in LAST moment i make a SIDE jump ( something about 2 metres of range ) in diagonal way against u, so u miss me, and i'm on your side to strike u with a stab!

 

It should be really better then the jk 2 manouvre right now, that are a loooong ROLL that take u out from the fight.

[Rajess MoDuron]

I had a massive post planned and written, but just as I was getting to the last point, Explorer had a fatal error and died. Stupid Win 98.

 

Anyway, let me say this:

 

1) The number of forms is negotiable, however, to fit in the scope I envision there can be no less than five, no more than 7.

 

2)The URL for the story I got the idea from is here:

 

http://www.cinescape.com/24/editorial.asp?aff_id=24&this_cat=Prequel+News&action=page&obj_id=33570

 

It's a reliable source, and if you don't want Spoiler information, don't go there.

 

3) Tiger or whatevs, you know exactly what I mean. This is supposed to be an incredibly intricate and lifelike modification (as lifelike as star wars can get, anyway), and the stuff the other people are mentioning has been done (simply changing saber stances, etc.) in Jedi Knight. They were great mods for JK, but we can do so much more with JO. The only question I ask is "Why not?"

 

4) Star Wars is a massive universe. Massive and wonderful and breathtaking and everything. You cannot assume that everything in this world, this environment, is going to be spelled out in the movies. If, that is, you want to truly honor George Lucas' vision, give the man some credit for having made stuff up not in the movies. Things are implied, alluded to, and glossed over all the time. Lando lost his ship to Han...and yet it never mentions how. It is now accepted as fact that he lost it in a hand of Sabaac. There are things like this all over the place.

 

Have a little imagination, and please help me bring this dream to life.

[Rajess MoDuron]

bump...and VOMIT

[Rajess MoDuron]

I feel the need to bump again.

 

<bump>

[Rajess MoDuron]

What is up with this biznass? I need to <bump> again?

 

Come one people, I really thought folks would get on board this one, so far I've only recieved one reply. I'm not saying I wanna be dictator or anything, but isn't ANYONE remotely interested?

 

ANYONE??

[Goreld]

Good luck animating the models to do all those different stances.

 

To be honest, unless you have a kickass motion capture studio and some martial artists waiting to do their routines, simulating that many fighting styles is a fool's errand. It's one thing to put in a character with a simple run cycle; swordfighting is damn complex and HARD to animate.

[Rajess MoDuron]

But you see, in a way, we won't really have to do that. The moves will all be in the movies. I mean, yeah, one way would be a motion capture suit, and that would probably the easiest way, but in this easy=expensive, and I don't have the money. If my idea could get corporate sponsorship that would be one thing, but I doubt that is happening. RAVEN, ARE YOU LISTENING??

 

Set Al Ta'kwas

[moore+]

Er, just because the moves are in the *movies* doesn't automagically animate the models for you in the *game*, lol. The fact that they exist in movies already makes it even HARDER because people expect them to look like they've seen in the movies, a wee bit off and they wont notice why, but in their heads they will know it doesn't look quite right.

 

You'll need a very very competent animator to do them all, and a very very solid understanding of ghoul2 or whatever jk2 is using to blend them smoothly. Find an animator that good who has the TIME and will work for FREE is pretty unlikely, but good luck to ya!

[Rajess MoDuron]

So it could obviously be dumbed down...but that could all be done in team meetings and stuff. But I need a team first!! LOL

 

Seth

[quamosity]

I have been thinking about such an idea myself, and yes, the animations would be a pain in the ass.

 

However, with those seven different styles of saber usage, also something to consider is the differences in the lightsabers themselves. What about dual bladed, extendable blade, and akimbo (2 sabers...one in each hand) sabers? You can go all out with saber combinations to make one hell of a jk2 mod.

 

Like JK Tournament. Get everyone in a level, customize your jedi self with lightsaber, and go all out.

 

I want to see the akimbo sabers (used by Boc in Jedi Knight 1, and Anakin in AotC--> see the trailer) really bad for some reason. Double bladed would be awesome, as would an extendable blade. But I would really love to see an all out saber mod for jk2.

 

Question though, does jk2 have skeletal animation? Or is that just wishful thinking...

 

oh, and hey moore+

[UniKorn]

JK2 has skeletal animation.

[BloodRiot]

Akimbo Sabers and Double Bladed Sabers are good.

 

A Jedi Tournament would not be such a bad idea. A saber Only Tournament. Custumizable characters and Styles... yes yes.. i kinda like it.

 

But honestly, the animations are gonna be a B#$ch to accomplish.

 

More acrobatics are also welcome.

 

If it can be done, then I say thumbs up.

[Dea]

there is a lot of actobatics in those models already that players can't access. so you just have to make them accessible, not animate them.. at least saves some work...

 

BTW, totally love the idea of a saber tournament mod

[Rajess MoDuron]

Now THIS is what I'm talking about.

 

Okay, so we dumb it down, how about two different styles for regular saber, one that is defensive and one that is offensive (but not slow, that is my least favorite thing about JO, the stupid slow attack when a lightsaber blade HAS NO MASS) and then a double-bladed style and an akimbo style. Much easier, no?

 

As for the extended saber, I guess we could fit it in if we wanted to, but that had to be my least favorite part of SBX. I really hated that damn thing.

 

Anyway, keep the conversation FLOWING!!

 

Seth

[Commodus]

Interesting ideas - it would be really good if done properly, and I'm not convinced that the modelling will be hellishly hard, you can learn to use 3DS Max/Gmax within a few weeks...

 

BTW, they teach you C++ in High School? I'm a bit surprised, because here in Hong Kong you can take a "Computer Studies" GCSE course and you only learn stuff about databases, using macros in Excel, and making stuff in Visual Basic...

[Rajess MoDuron]

We get real rudimentary c++. I was pretty good at it though.

 

Seth

[norton256]

if you want to add more styles, add 2 more, the double lightsabre style, and the 2 lightsabre style, make it so that a slain enemies lightsabre can be picked up

[Rajess MoDuron]

Okay! Here goes, revision of mission statement:

 

The game setting is like Duel, only with a little spin. Depending on the style you use, you may fight more than one person at a time (the other people automatically cause no damage to each other, and are considered to be on the same team for force power purposes).

 

Everyone starts out with saber level 1. This is the JK style (this is important, NOT JO style. JO style shows Kyle's progression in his style over 13 years (5 after JK to MotS, and 8 more to JO) and would be completely inappropriate for the first style).

 

Kills give you points.

 

Points can be used towards Advanced Dueling styles.

 

Now, other considerations to make:

 

1)Is this like an RPG, and if so, would it not be annoying to leave the server and lose ALL of your point information?

 

REMEDY:

 

Some file within JO keeps track of your points. I know, I know, after a certain period of time, everyone would have an ungodly amount of points, and would basically be able to choose whatever style they wanted, or everyone would have the same style and it would be very difficult to break in to. Well, okay. One way to fix this would be to insert something in JO like was in JK, where you can set up individual characters and you select them before you enter the game. The opening menu I mean, not the MP character selection screen. I don’t know about you guys, but I found that to be very helpful. This could also help us alleviate a major gripe I have with JO, which is that if you go from a FF server to a NF server and then back to a FF server, you have to completely reset your force powers half the time, and even when you don’t, they still require tweaking. But these things will come later. Right now, the purpose of those different characters. The points added up, kept, used for some ranking thing or whatever (we keep a database of who beats who, and how often, the works) BUT, the saber style you choose for that character is PERMANENT. You make a choice in the higher tiers of forms and it stays. No ifs, ands or buts. You want a new style? Make a new character. Another remedy could be where you get up to a certain point total and the file starts subtracting points, simulating your character aging. Not only this, but to make it easier for n00bs to break in, we have it made so either:

 

a)More points are given for killing people with higher tier saber styles than you.

 

b)People on same level tiers fight each other, and the only time intermingling occurs is within melee servers and special instances (i.e. two middle tiers fighting one high tier)

 

 

Now, the only real ways I see this working within a Duel setting are:

 

1)Someone mentioned a ladder idea, where there are several dueling arenas within one level. This could work.

 

2)A server network. Dedicated servers feeding statistics to a larger server. People can jump into any server and begin fighting like they had never gone offline.

 

 

OTHER MISCELLANEA:

 

SERVER TYPES

 

Light v. Dark Melee Servers: No damage done to members of the same force side. At the same time, no cheesy blue or red skins (unless you 1337’s pick them, of course). At the same time is not Duel. Everyone on the server fights and respawns as in FFA.

 

Realistic Melee Servers: Probably the server choice you Dark Side haters will choose the most. Light Side, as usual, cannot fight Light Side. Dark Side, however, can fight Dark Side like there is no tomorrow. Respawn as normal.

 

Realistic Duel Servers: This would be the only server type for Duel. Only people of opposite sides or Dark Side users can be put into rotation to fight each other. Other considerations as well, of course.

 

FORCE POWER STUFF

 

Okay, I dunno about you, but I think some of the force powers here are broken. I don’t whine when it happens, but I find myself an all to often victim of the drain- grip-walk-around-your-ass-so-you-can’t-push-me combo.

 

Maybe:

 

Only allow Speed, jump, push, pull, healing, and electricity. Electricity could be used in a weakened combined form with drain to heal a little (yet take none of your opponent’s force power) and heal would obviously be more effective at healing.

 

Alright, my head and hands hurt. RSVP please with comments! This is again, only a ROUGH overview. If people want to be on da team, we would of course talk about all this in depth at a later date.

 

CONTACT INFO:

 

emails:

chexmaniac@hotmail.com

sethyruxpin@aol.com

padawanrajess@cs.com

 

AIM: alkalineruxpin

 

PS: Of course Double blades would still be available, as would two lightsabers. I think the whole picking up other people's lightsaber thing would be awesome, especially if you retained their color. But, and I know this is weird to hear me say, that might be shooting the moon.

 

Wow, never thought I'd say that.

[ThunderChunky]

The idea sounds pretty solid, especially since I've been longing for a well done blade combat game since Die By the Sword.

 

If Raven releases a tool which allows for the modification of a skeleton, rather than a model, for animations, doing this wouldn't be all too difficult, as you would only have to do one set of animations, and then it could be applied to all models. However, as I have little idea how the Quake engine actually works (I'm on much friendlier terms with UT), I don't know the possibility of this.

 

On a personal note, I'd like to see the stances balanced against each other without having to use force as a factor (while it could come into play). In the current game, I am a big fan of no-force saber matches. But that's just me.

 

Should be interesting how this turns out.

 

-tc