Most Extensive Mod...EVER

[Rajess MoDuron]

Thanks for your input Thunder, and I too hope that the skeletals will be editable, as that would not only make it possible, but much easier than I had ever thought conceivable.

 

Let's get some more input people!

 

Seth

[quamosity]

I have thought alot recently about how to balance the sabers. And what it has boiled down to is strength and length.

 

Limits on the force obviously would be helpful--as, for example, akimbo sabers wouldnt be able to have any force unless one saber was put away

 

Theres alot more to this, but I don't quite have time to discuss at the moment.

[Rajess MoDuron]

The length of the saber itself should never change...unless I am outvoted on this one. However, the length of the sweep shall we say of the attacks would be one of the variables.

 

LENGTH of attack (not time wise, but distance wise)

STRENGTH of attack

SPEED of attack

 

These are the three variables I am thinking about.

[DeathsHead]

I could probably get the server system designed. Kinda like a storage database. The first time you come on you could get a username and password or something, and then somehow tie that in to the server through the privatepassword setting maybe. Have different levels of combat on each server culminating in the elite server after you rack up a huge amount of points???? Still allow them to choose the server they want though...

[The Truthful Liar]

Rajess MoDuron, you've come up with a very intruiging idea for an extremely complex mod. For a first I would like your email adress so I can contact you further on seeing you become part of the NRG team. (Iether place your email on this same forum, if you feel uncomfortable with that - then I can give you mine)

 

The NRG Team which is nearing completion is designed for creating products for a number of communities, pending on the ammount of work put in that will probably be the same persons feedback. Also this opens up opportunities for future aspiring editors to have the possibility of being looked over by larger important Editing (2d & 3d) Teams.

 

Possibilities for Editors could open up basically, and also NRG would be a source for producing resources for JK2 (hopefully) and other upcomming game titles.

 

More information upon recieval of interest/email.

 

Cheers

[Rajess MoDuron]

Sounds very interesting, and I would be remiss to say I was not intrigued. There is one small little problem with me becoming a member of any team. I have little to no editing experience. I only know what is possible, and what I would like to see. My c++ skills were once quite good, but I have since lost much of my command of the language.

 

IF you wanted me purely as an concept designer or something in that respect, I would be more than willing to hop on board. I work from 9-5, which also puts some restraints on me, but there is no limit as to how long I can stay in the office.

 

My emails are:

chexmaniac@hotmail.com

sethyruxpin@aol.com

padawanrajess@cs.com

 

Set Al Ta'kwas

[The Truthful Liar]

Great! If you have MSN messenger I will add your email, also I will email you tomorow concerning what your position could hold and descisions on times since you have a somewhat limiting schedule.

 

(it's midnight now btw [thats why I will email you later], g'night Jk2.net, g'night everyone)

[Rajess MoDuron]

I have a massive update to make, might just make a website, don't know.

 

Latur

[Rajess MoDuron]

Almost forgot aboutcha AB, here is my email:

 

chexmaniac@hotmail.com

sethyruxpin@aol.com

padawanrajess@cs.com

 

my IM is alkalineruxpin

 

Latuer, hope to hear from youz.

 

Seth

[moore+]

Hi Q!

 

I reskinned kyle so he's less of a dork, ask me on irc sometime, really helps the sp game for me at least.

 

"I want to see the akimbo sabers (used by Boc in Jedi Knight 1, and Anakin in AotC--> see the trailer) really bad for some reason. "

 

For some reason? hehe

 

Akimbo addict!

[quamosity]

besides the fact that I am an akimbo addict, I still think it would be cool to have. Glad to hear you have played with jk2 skins moore, I will get in contact with ya sometime

[Rajess MoDuron]

Still working on the manifesto...it is coming. Also am now working with NRG, so hopefully we'll be putting it out with some other cool stuff that I don't include. Can always use input, so continue to give it!

 

Seth

[Irate Customer]

Couple of things from my perspective here:

 

Everyone will want to use Akimbo if they have the same size Lightsaber as everyone else due to the sheer offensive prowess with this style. Here is what I suggest to remedy this. Change the size of the Lightsabers all the way around. Strong syle can have a bigger blade resembling two-handers from midevil syles, Akimbo would wield two smaller blades with shorter range, and then standard style would carry the traditional length. I think this would add a lot of flavor to it.I also would limit the two styles requiring both hands to be limited to Speed and Jump since their hands are being used to carry the sabers. These two styles will have tremendous offensive and defensive power due to reach (Two hander) and speed (Akimbo). This is another way to add flavor to your mod and separate you from the original game. This game has had the best melee combat I have ever experienced and I think adding to it would make it the industry standard.

 

One bit of coding I would like to see is this (and this is a bit of imagery here)

 

Instead of a Dual command, there would be a cooperative command which can be initiated by a player to another player. Once excepted they fight back to back and pivot as a unit. While in this mode they are locked at the back so they cannot move except for left and right swivelling to fend off attackers. They could not damage each other but their saber defense would be raised a tad. This does hurt their mobility and jumping but force powers would still act as per their loadout. Fighting a bunch of bots this way could be a great time. And for Light vs. Dark battles this would be very good stuff. Another weakness would be that they are going to be susceptable to lightning attacks and other area of effect weaponry if they are allowed in the mod. I am not sure if this is possible, but since the coding is there for the Dual mode, this might just need some editing from there.

 

Irate Customer

Wall Walker Extraordinaire

[Rajess MoDuron]

Thanks for your input! It will be taken into concideration as we work the mod idea out, but remember that the ideas you are commenting on are about 5 days old or something like that...maybe more. I really have no recollection. The mod has become a different beast, larger, more powerful. More like a brand new game than a mod. Some things will fall to the wayside, whereas some will rise up from the ashes. A little melodramatic? Yes.

 

Seth

[Elijah]

Welcome to NRG Rajess

 

ZDawg

- Skinner/Modder for the NRG team

[Rajess MoDuron]

Thanks! Both for the bump and the welcome!

 

Hopefully the new patch may make our job slightly easier, eh?

[Rajess MoDuron]

TWO PAGES!!! YAYAYAYAYAYAY!!!

[FreeCrwCPJ]

so what the progress with this mod. can you give us an update?

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

I started to write down all the features and changes I hoper that a mod could bringn because, to say the least, I am very disappointed by the JO dueling system, without saying that the blue/yellow/red stances is complete non-sense.

 

I even thought about entering a mod team.

 

I'm actually making a Quake3 map (with some of my own textures) and am also studying my first year of CGI design/creation/animation with 3DSMAX for video games and movies.

 

I may be interested to help you if I think the mod is worth of it, which means that I'll never spend my time for something that I don't like, of course.

 

Here are the major points that I think will need the most work :

 

- The character creation process.

 

Skins, models, Force powers, combat style, weapon, attributes (RPG inside of course), et cetera.

You'll have the choice between predefined models that have their own skins, models and so on, or be able to make your custom character.

Favourite stance (remember Jerec's one during the final battle at the Valley - quite special and unique).

That simply means that if you use a custom model, you won't be able to take Vader's outfits with Maul's weapon, for eg.

Of course, that means that the mod will have to give the player a good bank of custom made characters.

Plus age, height, stamina, weight, max jump height, agility, mobility, strenght and more.

 

- In game Dueling mechanics.

 

Correct the moves, the attack/defense functions. Add a "enemy duel lock" function (wherever you are, all your attacks will be directed toward your enemy : This will add a lot more possibilities for the combos and gestures), the way your attributes will affect your actions, how to make the fights be like the ones in the movies : more lightsabre, less force powers, and so on...

Thin about how many fight styles can be linked to each weapon.

Get rid of the quickier = weaker hits.

Also add the possibility to play with the one hit = wound or death.

 

Be able to switch between one handed and two handed stances.

 

 

- Force powers.

 

A lot of things to be changed here also.

Think about why the Jedi and Sith in the movies can't use the Force on each other as much as they do on objects, droids or stromtroopers (I'm thinkg about a complex concentration-calm-reflex-stamina and many more attributes mix that will be defined at the character creation process stage and that will affect the way you use the Force in game).

Tweak many Force powers.

Make the Force Absorb, Protection and on invisible to your oponents (only).

Add many new powers.

Plus many other points...

 

//

 

This was for the major elements, but there are many subpoints that need to be corrected or added.

 

...............

 

As you saw, there are a lot of things that I would like to see and there this is just an exhaustive list, as I didn't wrote ALL the things that I wanted.

[Ko'or Oragahn]

May I say... bump ?

[Jarrodo Malachi]

SWEET MOD IDEA!!!!!

 

But let me adress some issues that come to mind.

 

Acrobatics. seeing that this mod will be extensive you can't over look the jedi's manuverability. i've seen recently mods that "change" manuvers like the roll to the butter fly kick thingy...it gets on my nerves because i use roll alot. if you deside on doing manuvers don't change! just add

 

here are some example moves i would like to see added to the manuvers in your mod

 

1. backward/forward hand spring. Double tap forward while in the direction you want to spring and press crouch

 

2. Turn around roll (the roll lara croft uses in tomb raider games that when exacuted turns the player in the opposite direction really fast.). press jumb and crouch and back at the exact same time.

 

3.the dodge manuver the reborns use in single player. make the a force power like saber throw with 3 levels of affectiveness.

 

4.Wall jumping. assosieated with the force jump like the wall ride. When you jump towards a wall and press jump again in the direction away from the wall you can do a spiderman style bounce and leap. if you ever have played metroid then you should know what i mean.

 

5. edge grab. (another tomb raider style move). press use while in a jump and you will reach out for a edge to grab (great for saving your ass if you get pushed off a cliff or some thing) pressing forward would make you player model climb back up.

 

 

Extended melee. ever wonder why they didn't put kicks and punchs into JO. they even have the sound effects in your asset base. and a gran boxer the dusn't appear in single player unless you spawn it in.

 

you can go two ways with hand to hand combat. the simple way (like in JK where they just had one badly animated kick for all) or the complex way. a system just like saber combat only with your hands and feet.

 

Think maul landed a beautiful kick on obi wan that sent him sailing off the catwalk in EP 1. don't you want to do that too!!!

 

Add two more attack buttons one for kicks the other for punchs.

and melee stlyes and stances like the saber's (fast, medium and slow) you could link saber moves to melee attacks to greatly expand and enhanse the combos.

 

i'll post a whole list of the basic moves and combos some time else

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Thks for the reply.

 

Well, it's not My mod. This is only a sum up of a bunch of ideas I have.

 

But let me adress some issues that come to mind.

 

Acrobatics. seeing that this mod will be extensive you can't over look the jedi's manuverability. i've seen recently mods that "change" manuvers like the roll to the butter fly kick thingy...it gets on my nerves because i use roll alot. if you deside on doing manuvers don't change! just add

 

I agree. I also use the roll, but not always.

 

If such a mod had to be released, its goal would be to make the game look like the movies. More realistic moves as much as you can, plus the accrobatics that you can realize through the Force.

 

That means that the MP roll may be tweaked into the SP roll, because I find it quite lame to see players rolling on the ground à la Sonic in order to go faster.

 

There's also a similar problem with the circle jump, which is a constant in every Q3 engine based game. In wolf MP, it was quite cleverly erased from the game dynamics (but we can still use it if you know how to).

 

See people jumping /andor rolling all over the place in order to "run" faster isn't quite appropriate for such a mod that would tend to make the game look like the movies.

 

1. backward/forward hand spring. Double tap forward while in the direction you want to spring and press crouch

 

I guess that with the "lock_duel" option, such combos could be easily added to the game.

 

2. Turn around roll (the roll lara croft uses in tomb raider games that when exacuted turns the player in the opposite direction really fast.). press jumb and crouch and back at the exact same time.

 

Yep, a really usefull move. But each move, hit, kicks, punch, slash and jump could tap into your stamina and concentration pools.

 

3.the dodge manuver the reborns use in single player. make the a force power like saber throw with 3 levels of affectiveness.

 

Ok about the dodge.

Now, I don't know if I understood what you said about the LS Throw, but my point is that LS Throw should ba a power and not the second lightsabre attack. It should be taken as another Force power like it was in JK and not as the second LS attack.

Freeing the second lightsabre attack button will literally DOUBLE the number of attacks and combos you can realize with a LS.

I think it is a must.

 

4.Wall jumping. assosieated with the force jump like the wall ride. When you jump towards a wall and press jump again in the direction away from the wall you can do a spiderman style bounce and leap. if you ever have played metroid then you should know what i mean.

 

Yeah, Metroïd, one of my favourite games !

There was a time when me and a bunch of friends wanted to make a Quake 3 mod with such a feature.

I'd say that once you have the Force, a lot of things you can do.

 

5. edge grab. (another tomb raider style move). press use while in a jump and you will reach out for a edge to grab (great for saving your ass if you get pushed off a cliff or some thing) pressing forward would make you player model climb back up.

 

I do also agree. I think this is a must. Now we will have to figure if this will cause your player to :

 

- lose his lightsabre.

- grab the edge with his two hands and switching the LS off if it was ignited.

- grab the edge with only one hand and keep his lightsabre ignited in the otehr.

 

You're thinking about Obi-Wan in TPM (and AOTC )... no ?

 

Extended melee. ever wonder why they didn't put kicks and punchs into JO. they even have the sound effects in your asset base. and a gran boxer the dusn't appear in single player unless you spawn it in.

 

you can go two ways with hand to hand combat. the simple way (like in JK where they just had one badly animated kick for all) or the complex way. a system just like saber combat only with your hands and feet.

 

Think maul landed a beautiful kick on obi wan that sent him sailing off the catwalk in EP 1. don't you want to do that too!!!

 

Add two more attack buttons one for kicks the other for punchs.

and melee stlyes and stances like the saber's (fast, medium and slow) you could link saber moves to melee attacks to greatly expand and enhanse the combos.

 

i'll post a whole list of the basic moves and combos some time else

 

The fact is that you must get a balance between the max number of buttons players want to use while playing a FPS and the max number of functions that are unleashed by the mod.

 

I mean that we to give the maximum of moves and actions with the minimum of required binded buttons.

 

That's why having both punch and kick given one button may be too much when we know that there will be already knew Force powers (well, maybe there will be a maximum of Force powers allowed per player).

 

But on the other hand, if both punch and kick had their own buttons, it would be easier for the players to use them.

 

****

 

Now, about the blue/yellow/red stance and the slow, medium and quick moves.

 

Here's my point :

 

This will be a bit technical but in fact it is needed to understand why some dynamics will be kept in regard of others.

 

Since a lightsabre can cut flesh in matter of milliseconds, it is almost useless to have slow moves.

 

By the way, the slower the move, the weakier the attack. And generally, when you don't put all your forces in an the attack, you have more chances to respond and parry to a counter attack from your enemy. This simply contradicts the actual dynamics used by the game. I nthe actual games, the slow moves are simply ridiculous. In fact, slow moves shouldn't exist.

 

Safe a guy has a special armor (like Vader), if he gets touched by a lightsabre blade, he will be instantly wounded or split in two.

 

That's why I say that a realistic system is better suited for the mod.

 

Now, about the stances. Why would we remove them or at least change them ?

 

Because with a lightsabre, the quickiest attack will always be the most dangerous, unless you have to keep your blade into something in order to melt it, and since your blade does always unleash the same amount of damage per second, making big swirls won't increase the power of the balde *sigh*.

 

I think that the system choosen by Raven is pretty false and non-sense at all.

 

By the way, most SW techs assume that the blade of a lightsabre is near as masseless.

 

So why duelers in the movie make twirls and a lot of other moves ?

 

Because it adds more kinetic energy to their weapon. The kinetic energy is created by the moves of their body and then transmitted to their weapon they're closely holding.

 

The result : When the blade is blocked, it has more chances to overcome a parry and go through the defense of your enemy.

He will have two choices : Block the attack with as much strenght as he can of let the attack pass and counter attack.

 

Of course, letting an attack pass is pretty dangerous and you must know what you're doing.

 

The counter part a twirl kind of move is that it makes you more vulnerable to your oponent attacks, more than if you weren't moving so much (like Obi-Wan against Vader in ANH, even if Obi-Wan tried a 360° twirl in order to break Vader's defense).

 

So we have many choices for the mod.

 

Since I wanted to remove the LS throw from the second button and substitute it by a stronger lightsabre attack function, this maybe enough to remove the blue/yellow/red thing and then free more bind space for other functions like switching between fighting styles, AND NOT BETWEEN ATTACK VELOCITES as it actually is in JO, which is useless.

 

In fact we could switch between agressive and defensive stances.

 

This new system will be way enough to cover all the different styles.

 

I've read that AOTC's Visual Dictionnary will present a brief description of the different lightsabre fight styles used in the movie. It's going up to seven forms.

 

Well, I think only a few of these so-called forms are really exclusive.

 

For eg, they talk about Obi-Wan's style that is quite different from Dooku's, mainly because Obi-Wan's is primary orientated against adversaries armed with blasters when Dooku's is almost orientated against other lightsabre wielders.

 

I must agree and I think it would be pretty accurate to take that into account.

 

But I almost disagree when they make a difference between Mace's and Obi-wan's, saying that Mace's is less flashy.

 

In game, you won't need to switch between these so-called two different styles because in fact Mace's is only Obi-Wan's without too much moves but with more direct hit and kill ones.

 

You don't need to switch to adopt such a behavior !

 

Btw, the VD didn't mention any reference to Maul's style. It only says taht teh Sith styles are a derivate from the 7th form if I'm not wrong.

 

Look, if we use the system I propose, you will have these choices :

 

- The ability to switch between an agressive stance and a defensive stance (and maybe between an intermediate stance, who knows). Agressive stance would be more suited for Sith and the defensive one more suited for the Jedi. In fact we could even more talk in terms of behavior than in terms of stances. That would be better.

 

- Switch between one or two handed grip.

 

- Two attack buttons for the lightsabre instead of only one.

 

So basically, you have :

 

"Two agressive/defensive behaviors" x "Two attack buttons for the LS"

 

It gives us four main groups of moves and combos.

 

But as said before, then we could have a intermediate behavior between totally agressive and totally defensive, plus the fact that some moves would be exclusive to the one or two-handed grips, and then you a system that is far above what you actually have in Jedi Outcast.

 

Without saying that for example, using Dooku's special curved lightsabre will be more effective with a one-handed grip that with a two-handed grip.

 

 

Of course, when you'll create your character, you'll have to determine which style he's better with.

 

That means you'll have to give points in the styles you think you're the best with if you choose a custom character.

 

I'll have to dig for this idea.

 

What AOTC's Visual Dictionnary calls forms would be, from this mod point of view, just a group of predefined configs, like if you were chosing those predefined and prenamed Force Powers configs instead of making your own.

 

***

 

That's all for now.

 

If anyone is interested...

[__CKY__]

When and if this mod comes out im dling it and im making sure everyone esle will all this stuff sounds very tight and very hard to do i would enjoy playing with it too

[Brodieman]

Have you given up on the Jedi of The Old Republic Mod then?

[The Truthful Liar]

*shrugs*

 

Seth's pretty busy, I've been looking through many ideas and I really should get them written down and saved

 

I'm getting started on drawing some sketches of different areas in the playability of this mod (ie: movements; dodging, wall flips, saber attacks, etc..)