Razage Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 *Curls up and goes to sleep by the flames, they keep me warm.* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droniac Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 For any Clanleaders that are reading this: There are several new ladders (CTF/TDM/1 on 1) on http://www.clanbase.com For clans afcourse Have Fun.... (BTW: ClanBase is mainly european, so i don't think u'd get much matches as a American clan on ClanBase). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Krayt Tion Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 Originally posted by Joruus Whether its a requirement to have a good, enjoyable clan that plays JK2, I'm not so sure. It's a requirement for me for a good, enjoyable clan that plays JK2, I was never saying that it must be for anyone else. ...So worrying over roleplay being a critical factor is somewhat needless. Again... needless to you personally, not to me. Clans that wish to roleplay will be able to. Clans that wish to hardcore compete with be able to, and all manner of clans in between. The necessity of roleplay to building a great JK2 clan is rather peripheral to the whole deal. Peripheral to you, I'm assuming. As I've indicated before, to me it is quite important. I'm trying to illustrate that the matter of role playing in JK2 clans is a highly subjective one. I don't see how the issue of whether role playing is necessity for a good JK2 clan can be 'proven' one way or the other. You mentioned "While roleplay is all well and good (I have no problems with it at all) I've often felt that clans that pick one side of the Star Wars universe and play on it are limiting themselves severely." True enough, if you just want to win, you are probably slightly better off with a better-balanced team of lighties and darkies. As a one-sided rp clan you might not be able to reach the upper-most echelon of clans but if you are role playing this is usually not the paramount concern anyways. Your point here is very much moot. While one-sided rp clans might be limited in effective two-sided force combinations in competition (though not to the degree which you profess), they certainly are not more limited in their creativity, expressed in their role playing for all to see and enjoy. This, from where I sit, will bring more flavor to the JK2 community than any clan solely dedicated to kicking people's asses in a professional, well-organized manner. Those are a dime a dozen and can be found en masse in any FPS in increasing numbers these days. My ideal JK2 clan would be one that can hold its own as a one-side clan in mp (and there will be some of these), yet is still dedicated to doing it while acting out in the Star Wars Universe. That plus some of the other good organizational measures you have suggested. Looking to form a JK2 clan? To those who are reading, I would add: Don't be afraid to consider role playing if you've got this nagging feeling that makes you want to do it. There will be plenty of groups out there that share your interest in this. Don't be intimidated by what others who care nothing for this have already got set up. You can have your cake and eat it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeKToR Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 Krayt - Needless nitpicking. You could have just added a friendly 'Roleplaying is fun!' and left it at that. Roleplaying - by my definition - is using an existing storyline and a game to a) write stories or b) roleplay in game. I popularized roleplaying on the Zone, and it had at least 3 rooms playing Drazen, Nightclub or some other map that had lots of features and whatnot. Joruus - Thanks for the breakdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubris Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 Very nice post, for those of you talking about RPG clans and other such stuff, the post is obviously directed at clans intended to compete on ladders, leagues etc. So, uh, while your information about roleplaying clans is, ehm, interesting, it's really inpertinent. I'd also recommend the the TWL over any of the current ladders cropping up. The only other truly viable contender (For US players anyway, not sure about euros and pacific rim players) is the OGL, which has a really bad history of not listening to their playerbase and making some of the most retarded decisions in the history of competition. The TWL comparably has already had a few matches, and Polaris and a number of other TWL folks regularly read and post here, and on their own forums. They also have a good 30-40 teams on each of their team ladders, and almost 200 folks on each of their duel ladders. Definitely the best ladder right now. (And I'm not affiliated with the TWL personally, just the more people competing on a ladder, the better it is, so hopefully a team or two migrates there as a result of this post. ) Edit: Whoop, bad link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Krayt Tion Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 I disagree about my post being nit picky. I was responding to the comment about his clan advice being well-tailored for JK2. To quote the first sentence of my first response: "... yet I disagree with the comment another mentioned regarding how well-tailored this advice is for JKII." I was respresenting an angle not covered in his approach. I'm hoping some people find that helpful. Also, he begun his post on the premise "So you love the game. You want more out of your multiplayer experience. What to do?" In my opinion, not only do you form a clan but you form a role playing clan in the tradition of Jedi Knight. That is something that could not only net you more from you multiplayer experience but from your clan experience as well. If you don't value my contribution, well, there's nothing I can do about that, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joruus Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 Well as I said theres nothing wrong with a bit of roleplay if thats what your clan is going to do. But you have to keep in mind that roleplay as a requirement can turn as many people off from a clan as it can get people interested in it. There are plenty of ways to go about getting roleplay started within a clan. But if theres just one or two guys in it that are all "I am Lord Lozischnozzle the Third, bow before my jedi greatness" the rest of them, guys that just play games with an internet handle are gonna spend alot of time "looking" at them funny. Because of the games immense popularity, and its build in one of the best multiplayer engines availible, your going to get alot of different folk playing JK2, people that weren't really bothering with the original Jedi Knight (though alot of us did...if somewhat vaguely) because of how unwieldly it was as compared to Quake 2 or Quake even for competition play. With the advent of the new game, your going to get clans over from Quake 3 Arena, UT, Counterstrike...and all manner of different game genres....places where roleplay isn't even really considered. So while I believe that roleplay can add an interesting facet to a JK2 clan, I'm not so sure that its a requirement to build and run a good clan for the game. Lord Lozischnozzle the Third might be able to tell a good story or two about his background on Tattooine and all, but then again, PowerSkunk420 might be a dab hand with the Imperial Repeater. Honestly though Krayt, people barely even roleplay in Everquest, and thats a roleplaying game. JK2 is an FPS game. So I'm more concerning myself with the business of building an FPS clan, more than a roleplaying guild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeonSamurai Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 I must say your guide or checklist is a good one for those wishing to start up a semi serious to compeditive clan. Couple of thoughs... Take em or leave em Although i do agree with your general statement on the zone (i hate it myself in general) it can serve a few valuable uses such as setting up for fun pick up games between clans with the member base you have around. Its good pratice for your members and can help them bond and fight better together. Granted you can do it with the in game browser but i have found it a bit simpler to just scan the list of names looking for people with the same tag with similar numbers on as us and see if they want to play or not on the zone. Myself for deciding on clan size minimum size for league/ladder play i usualy go with twice the required number for the particular ladder as a minimum. Generaly because not everyone can play at the same time/day for matches, plus real life creaps up. Also it will give you full teams for both sides on practices which is nessary if you arnt alied with another clan that you can train/practice with (forget training against bots). To keep everyone playing and happy since most leagues/ladders tend to do multiple games in a match to determine a victor (2-3 usualy) you can alternate players between games (usualy if there isnt a set day each week matches are played, you can expect your full team of say 8 and 1-3 alternates). Maximum number varries depending on how much your members play and their availability and how many leagues/ladders you play on. As for a clan game server, i whole heartedly agree. Another suggestion if you cant get/afford one yourself you might be able to borow server time from an ally if you have one or talk a server admin into borowing it during certain times. What ever you do dont try to take over a pub server and force yourselves all onto one side. All you will acomplish is you will piss off the majority of players on the server, miss possibly recruiting opertunities, and give your clan a bad name (cant count the number of times ive seen this happen). It is however alright if a bunch of you are on and wana play on the server just try to keep it even as lets face it,on any pub server a well trained and practiced clan on one side will totaly demolish the public side every time, it wont be fun (unless your clan is one of those childish ones who takes pleasure in pissing others off and making their game expirence miserable) and you realy wont get much real practice as the other side is far to disorganized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrebel Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 haha this makes clans sound incredibly boring. dont listen to jorus...you dont need a r33t website. Of the clans ive been in i think ive visted our page maybe twice. who cares about cool flash intros on some lame clan site. clans are about teams. its pointless to have a clan for dueling...i mean wtf you never get to play with your clan mates in ladder play unless its against one of your own. Clans = team games like CTF. Thats the only time clans are fun IMO. above all else only let people you have fun with into your clans. p.s. my background is long with clans. Ive been in a number 1 tribes clan ive even been the leader of some clans. Its all about fun. The minute your friends stop having fun is when things go down hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Truthful Liar Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Read all of the above ---^ _________________________ I must admit this has been the most interesting thread concerning clans in general, for jk2, rpg types and etc... One small tiny issue though... Now personally, after over 5 years of online play, I've come to the point that I won't even take a clan seriously that doesn't even have one server. Now thats not exactly fair of course, not everyone has access to high bandwidth lines and extra computers. But essentially, if the clan doesn't have somewhere to match with other clans or practice together uninterrupted...whats the point? Practicing on public servers is unfair to the public players in general, but usually so because the clan teams up on everyone thats not in their clan. So if you can't host a server yourself, you should investigate the possibilities of remote hosting. There are several companies out there offering 24/7 servers for as little as 60 bucks a month Gameservers.com is one, I believe Clanpages.com also offers dedicated servers for competitive prices. Investigate your options, could be your dad could host a server on a box at his business, or theres an extra computer in the house no one uses and your on DSL or better connection wise. A server is highly important, without one...you might as well join a clan that does have one. oh yeah... it will ONLY be $60 a month to have servers for your clan lets just adress the fact that most clans are not based off money only. If funds are needed you are saying that a clan doesn't have a chance *hangs head low* you didn't consider some clans might not have the same equal opportunities to aquire people to pay such rates than other clans might. Needless to say, this is almost a requirement. Putting a pathetic little piece of MS Frontpage design on your ISP allotted webspace, i.e. ; http://members.aol.com/screename/joebobdebussy/JK2CLAN!.HTML, just isn't going to work if you want to be taken seriously by potential recruits. So go for http://www.clanname.com or clanname.domain.com if you can. I totally agree, yet again - to keep up a .com site that also needs a flow of cash reserves. I of course agree something like 'http://members.aol.com/screename/joebobdebussy/JK2CLAN!.HTML' is terrible, you could always get something like http://www.myclan.tk etc... yet the ultimate descision is to get a .com. Besides the suggestion of leaving a clan that doesn't have server. What would you advise for a clan having a .com with a proper design and has a medium level of functionality/organization with about 25 members that get along fine?? Also, one last note - you mentioned that most proffesional sites are constructed using .PHP or .ASP - I'm a web'master'*cough* myself and I've been really eager to start using that kind of web-system instead of having my site built up with .htm(l) files Thanks for this really intuitive thread while applying highly required information based on 'clans and the proper way of keeping them up'. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|UA|Ashenhand Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by madrebel haha this makes clans sound incredibly boring. dont listen to jorus...you dont need a r33t website. Of the clans ive been in i think ive visted our page maybe twice. who cares about cool flash intros on some lame clan site. BTW, I'm Joruus. Needless to say the evidence is overwhelmingly against your statement. And like I told someone else in this thread, a website is a resource for communication with your clan, and the portal through which the rest of the community sees your clan. Flash intros, asp/php management...none of its necessary. But a website that doesn't look like it will create an ocular migraine from looking at it is. And your apparently one of those clan members I generally end up hating. The guy that never checks the website and never knows whats going on. _______________________________________________ | UA | Ashenhand Founder, Universal Alliance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mormegil Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Well, we have a professional website, but many of our members don't visit very often. IRC is mainly where we're at. We have a large number of members due to being involved in a variety of games. It works out well for scrims now that we're focusing on JK2. Even though a minority will be in the competitive team, it's nice to have weekend warriors (like myself ) around. http://www.teamfusion.org ORG because we're an organization, not a business. Plus, it's cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrebel Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by |UA|Ashenhand BTW, I'm Joruus. Needless to say the evidence is overwhelmingly against your statement. And like I told someone else in this thread, a website is a resource for communication with your clan, and the portal through which the rest of the community sees your clan. Flash intros, asp/php management...none of its necessary. But a website that doesn't look like it will create an ocular migraine from looking at it is. And your apparently one of those clan members I generally end up hating. The guy that never checks the website and never knows whats going on. _______________________________________________ | UA | Ashenhand Founder, Universal Alliance you would kiss my ass to be in your clan. i bring the pain every game. team fusion sux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joruus Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by madrebel you would kiss my ass to be in your clan. i bring the pain every game. team fusion sux Doubtful Madrebel You've got a ****ty attitude, and you sound like a one shot wonder that would probably bail on a clan if they lost a match. A non-teamplaying ass that would abandon defending his flag/objective in a team based game to go on offense so he could up his frag count, and then ***** at his teammates for not defending when it was his job in the first place. I know your type Madrebel, I've been doing this for a very long time. I don't have to kiss anyones ass to be in my clan. I take time and find good players with good positive attitudes that are looking to work with the group and excel as team. Your definitely lacking in the good positive attitude area, I'm gonna give you the temporary benefit of the doubt on whether your a good player or not until I've run into you on a public server. Which is probably more than you do for most people. You sound like the kind of guy that thinks everyone in the game sucks but you and you could only die to lag, even though you've got 20 ping. Please wander off and find other posts to flame. Your a troll. And this'll be the last time I feed you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octavius Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 My little addition. When setting up a heirarchy, make sure there are rewards for each level of membership. I have seen guilds split or have spinoffs break away, all because said spinoff leaders wanted "more power". This happens a lot in games like Everquest or RPG style games. Be careful who you allow into your upper crust officer slots. The ones that you trust are often the ones to go with, but that does not mean they won't stab you in the back either. I know, I have had it happen. So my two cents is, be extremely careful on who you entrust your guild/clan to. One trip out of town on vacation leaving johnny in charge can often lead to half your guild being gone when you get back.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joruus Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 Agreed here Octavius. Its definitely a very close line to walk on who you trust your clan to. I had a similiar situation happen to be for a clan I was running for UT/Q3A CTF. Ran things for 6 months, handled the website did all the recruiting, got all the league administration handled and clan administration. I recruited a guy that seemed pretty solid and level headed, and he offerred to put up a pair of OC3 connected servers for us for UT and Q3A, so I said yes, and things looked pretty good. About a month after recruiting him and keeping an eye on him, I promoted him to officer status, entrusted him with all the administrative passwords for everything we were doing, the FTP information for the website and the whole she-bang. Essentially because I wanted the clan to be able to run well, no matter who was availible to do administration. At the end of the first month he was an officer, I took my summer vacation, put him in charge, and headed to Alaska for 2 months. Everyone in the clan knew I had plans of that nature. And all was cool. "Cya when ya get back dude" is what I got from him. Well 2 months later. I get back, and my static IP is banned from the IRC chat, none of my admin passwords work, I can't get on either server and the forums won't allow me to post on the website. I call the web host, and it turns out the billing information for the website has been changed, they won't tell me who to, but I knew, I asked how they authorized the change...and they tell me the email they recieved had the administrative password for the domain. Sigh. I finally get this guy on ICQ a few days later and ask him WTF is going on and I get this back. "You bailed dude, I had to keep things running, its not your clan anymore." Talk about getting screwed over. Most of the membership just stuck in the clan, it was doing great, they had friends there, they were sorry I got screwed, but it wasn't gonna make them drop the clan. So yes, be very careful who you share administrative level privelegdes with, because there are people out there that will rob you for no more than a name these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicRoach Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Joruus, Very, very cool thread. I also run a CS clan, which we are adding a JK section to. I agree with pretty much everything you said. The one question I have, which I think can be applied to any game, is how do you find good quality players? Most of our members came from regulars on our server. We knew them before they joined the clan.... in tryouts, we would test them no only skill wise, but teamwork wise. I'm very happy with the players we've chosen to join our clan. (FWIW, we've been around for just over a year) But now it seems like we are having problems finding new players. (And no, we are not some huge clan - maybe 12-15 members with about 8 of them being very active members) Since we like to watch people before asking them to join, it's hard to just pick another public server and play on that for weeks just looking for someone. Any suggestions? Roach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joruus Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 The JK2 community right now is still somewhat soft and still forming up. So right now, your talented players are gonna be few and far between. I run the Universal Alliance JK2 server and I'd say for about every competition level player I see on it, I see about 25 - 30 players with sub par game skills or experience. Now that doesn't mean those sub par players are going to suck forever, far from it, most of them get better, some of them very quickly after getting used to the games demands. My best suggestion for nailing down a good recruit is to buddylist their name on Gamespy or The Eye, even the internal server browser allows you to search the returned servers for a player name. Once you've found someone thats displayed the skills and attitude your looking for, grab a few of your boys and hit the server they're on. Your best enticement you can offer is showing the potential recruit what you and your mates are capable of. A few games, and he'll notice that the guys with |XYZ| tag in front of their names are pretty damn solid in the game. Then...just engage them in a bit of in game chat. "Hey Player, good game man, your pretty good." if hes seen you and your boys in action somewhat, and likes what he's seen, a quick invitation to hook up with you guys in IRC should be all it takes to get him or her in to talk from there. Good play, and good attitude will be your strongest assets when looking for people to recruit. If they respect your skills, and think your a good guy, they'll be more than amenable to discussing possible recruitment with you. Crappy attitudes, flaming other players, or playing unfairly (over balancing teams and refusing to switch sides), will turn them off quicker than dogsnot would turn off a 16 year old nymphomaniac. So present your best side. Because while there are tons and tons of players....you've really got to sell yourself, as much as solicit them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrebel Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by Joruus Doubtful Madrebel You've got a ****ty attitude, and you sound like a one shot wonder that would probably bail on a clan if they lost a match. A non-teamplaying ass that would abandon defending his flag/objective in a team based game to go on offense so he could up his frag count, and then ***** at his teammates for not defending when it was his job in the first place. I know your type Madrebel, I've been doing this for a very long time. I don't have to kiss anyones ass to be in my clan. I take time and find good players with good positive attitudes that are looking to work with the group and excel as team. Your definitely lacking in the good positive attitude area, I'm gonna give you the temporary benefit of the doubt on whether your a good player or not until I've run into you on a public server. Which is probably more than you do for most people. You sound like the kind of guy that thinks everyone in the game sucks but you and you could only die to lag, even though you've got 20 ping. Please wander off and find other posts to flame. Your a troll. And this'll be the last time I feed you. lol its you're not your. funny you are. games like jk2 are best played 1v1. if you want to play ctf go play tribes2 base++. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 madrebel and Joruus...you obviously have a difference of opinion...but you should each try to respect each other's point of view. No one is really right or wrong, here...if someone just wants to have fun...that's fine, and you shouldn't look down on them. If someone wants to enter into a more professional league and garner more respect...that's fine as well, and good luck with your endeavours. However, you should both recognise that sniping at each other on a public forum isn't doing either of you any favours - though my marsh-mallows are toasting up nicely, thanks. As I've said many times before...everyone's entitled to state their own opinion...as long as you can respect those of others, and state your own case in a coherent and civilised manner. If anyone here has irreconcilable differences, I recommend you find a server somewhere and go head-to-head...but please don't turn these forums into a clan battleground. Okay? Lot's of great stuff in this thread so far. If I ever manage to get a decent connection to the net, I might even look into joining a clan, and there's a lot of useful information in here. I guess I'm more like Kyle at the moment, though, a free-wandering spirit out for personal gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joruus Posted April 9, 2002 Author Share Posted April 9, 2002 Thanks Storm, I'll just quit feeding him. Hes more than welcome to do things his way if it suits him. That goes for the rest of you as well. This guide has over 5 years of online competition level experience in it. But that doesn't make it a complete fit for everyone. Remember, the best way to run a clan is your way. Assimilating some knowledge from others is always helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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