TseTse Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. It just totally ruined a good of CTF. It won't matter if everybody learns how to do it, because it's clearly beyond the scope of these maps and the general tempo of JK2. It's way over the top. With that said, let me explain... When you hit the speed force, you go fast. As a defender, I've gotten use to dealing with cappers, including means to cut them off at passes, using speed myself. With the exploit of what appears to be combining rage and speed, your speed is at least DOUBLE the fastest speed with full power. It's silly fast and basically ruins CTF. Seems only a few people know the trick right now, and they will refuse to share it. SO, everybody needs to know this to make it fair. Likewise, server admin oughta to punish people who use it in CTF, because clearly these maps weren't designed for this. Let's try to keep some decent CTF servers without this being used a lot, at least until they squash this bug/exploit. Frankly, I assume it's fun in duel and they just didn't realize the implications for CTF but... it's going to ruin this game if not dealt with immediately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razarblade Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 Play CTY and you won't have a problem, CTY is much more challenging than CTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaif Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 I'm not sure I'd call this an exploit or trick either. It was obviously the reason they made CTY to begin with - CTF w/force powers gets very unpredictable. -Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
En-T Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 It is fast, only truly effective on one map though. It is also fairly simple to stop the capper when he makes his run using this. So im unsure how the use of two game added force abilities is an exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darksider Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 i didnt know rage and speed stacked? is this an exploit then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 Are you saying people use Rage and Speed to run in, grab the flag then get back to their base? Just play Capture the Ysalimiri, that way your Force is disabled when you grab it, and you can't Speed/Rage back to your base. You can still charge in and get it, but rockets easily solve that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craggeh Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 I'm amazed CTF didn't come out of the box with the whole "disable force powers upon grabbing the flag" thing going on. CTY makes for far more tactical games, but it's far too damn fun doing the double jump on Bespin and capping in less than 20 seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 7, 2002 Share Posted April 7, 2002 Also, you know there IS a server option for disabling force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TseTse Posted April 7, 2002 Author Share Posted April 7, 2002 Originally posted by En-T It is fast, only truly effective on one map though. It is also fairly simple to stop the capper when he makes his run using this. So im unsure how the use of two game added force abilities is an exploit. While they may have understood the rage/speed combo as a factor in duel or whatever, I don't think it was an intended gameplay feature. Thus is the definition of an exploit. It's not really a cheat, just an unintended gameplay element or trick. You move REALLY fast with it. Combined with skilled jumping, and you basically have made the CTF maps into a new thing altogether, going way beyond the intended designs. In terms of CTF, it is TRULY severe in impact, imho. Once folks come to widely learn how to do it, then folks can fairly defend against it. But it means servers which tolerate it's use will have lots of stand-offs and turtles. For now, I hope folks using it realize they will be accused of cheating and end up in likely flame wars... at least until everybody knows how it is done and that it isn't a real cheat. It can really frustrate people if they don't know the exploit/trick yet, so just be appreciative that it's kinda unfair to use against folks who don't understand it. Likewise, understand that these maps were CLEARLY not intended for that kind of speed and game imbalance, so don't be offended if some servers demand that you not use this. On the other hand, we might find that this stays a part of the game and doesn't get fixed. I can see it being used on HUGE ctf maps, and get brought back into balance down the road in that way. We'll see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioHazzard Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 I have said this a thousand times if I have said it once...If you dont like what someone is doing learn to stop them or adapt, that is what gaming is about...I hate to sound like I dont care, but every other thread is about this is too strong get rid of that....personally I find the game rather entertaining...when someone figures out that if they use this and that together it is a good combo I like the challenge of finding a way to beat it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hubris Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 I don't think this is that big of a deal, for the following reasons: To activate speed and dark rage takes every last drop of force power if you're maxed in force power, you also don't regenerate force power of course when either is active. What this means: You cannot drain an enemy before doing it. Since you are dark side you cannot absorb Which boils down to anyone with push/pull is gonna rain all over your parade, not to mention grip and a smorgasbord of other powers. Two defensemen pulling a speed/dark rager are going to leave him on the ground, and he's going to be losing health all the while. Admittedly when he is up he is going to be going 275% his normal speed, however, if you have even two remotely intelligent defenders he will not be up. Add on top of that, there are four CTF maps, this is only viable on two of them (Garrison and Temple) If a capper DRs and speeds on Bespin or Streets, he _will_ die to an even slightly cognizant defense/offense group. You may have seen this in pubs and seen it be immensely effective, I've also seen and performed capping on temple, having eight guys chase me and kept them at bay the whole time with just the simple use of rudimentary force powers and my lightsaber. No speed, no DR... This is because the majority of the pubbers right now are really dumb, I mean eight guys chasing one capper and they have their lightsabers out, swinging 20 feet away from the capper and not using ANY of their force powers, not even pulling him back to them? Once people learn how to play the game it'll be much more balanced, when the game was first released everyone griped about how overpowered push, pull and grip were on the bottomless levels, but once they actually learned how to deal with it, it's not even really an issue anymore, it's a feature, same as this will be a month from now. (Though I still think drain needs to be toned down ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chico Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Skiing was an "exploit" by your definition in tribes 1, but without it that game wouldnt have been nearly as fun.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immortal LuD Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Always bickering about something... I bet you don't complain about the level of saber offense do you? "BUTT TAT 1 GuY H1T M3 AN 1 Di3D!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TseTse Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 oy veh, im not whining nor do i want to deal with petty flamers... this is an exploit, and YES the t1 tricks includign the minedisc'n are exploits under this definition. some exploits can actually add cool new things to games. some do not. this rage/speed thing could actually be kinda cool in duels. then again, i believe it is going to ruin ctf gameplay altogether, but it's a matter of preference and server admin control. in terms of filing a complaint, i would DEFINATELY say it's not fair to use it against folks who don't know the trick yet. that's an unfair advantage, and has nothing to do with skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aletoledo Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 I just thought of this combo about about 15 minutes before reading this post!! I usually play light side, but found that during jedimaster games rage really is the way to get kills and it got me to thinking about adding speed into it. I think the defense is to force pull them till they run out...I suppose this would require a bit of teamwork though on the part of the defenders, but isn't that the point of ctf? thats why I don't play it, I'm more of a loner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed030 Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Someone mentioned using pull vs this combo... You can EASILY outrun pull with this combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desslock Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 If your quick enough, just get him in grip and hold him there. Since he has no force, he cant do anything and it gives time for a teammate to come up and slice him. Speed lasts 5 seconds. Grip lasts 5 seconds. Unless you grip him before he pops speed, he'll lose his second nitrous oxide shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzkiLL Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 I too have been an unwelcome victim of this crazy fast speed bind. If I understand correctly, to do it, I use the "force_speed" bind, and the "force_rage" bind in combination to go really fast? Is that it? I have read about cog files that are supposed to help but have not been able to get them to work. I just can't seem to get going super fast to catch up to these people. A few of you stated that the best way to combat it is to use it too against the offender. Well, in order to use it, I need to know how to do it. Could someone please help us newbies learn to run like carl lewis? Thanks to any who are nice enough to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarScrap Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 As I understand it you just have speed and dark rage on at the same time, no special anything required there, just hit the two hotkeys. Speed makes you go fast, dark rage makes you go fast, stack them and you go REALLY fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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