Multi player: A random mess!

[Iodius]

I think I'm in the great minority when I say I enjoy single player or the single player portion of games much more than the multiplayer.

 

That said, I have been trying JO's MP aspect for the past week on different servers with different people of varying skills. And I must say, all the games are are one big random lightsabre flailing force abusing mess.

 

People either get lightsabres, hold down the primary fire button and swing wildly, fingers crossed. And what is worse, it works much better than trying to time moves. The first reason is because the characters move just too damn fast for anyone to be able to hit someone before they move to the other side of the room. Secondly, why dumb down the MP sabre battles from the great ones in SP? I don't see ANY good reason for doing that.

 

And force power abusing isn't as serious, but is still quite annoying. I don't know how many times I've been choked and thrown into an abyss by someone who is camping above a door near a bridge. Or how many times I've been force lightening'ed 6 times in a row by the same person with almost no gap between.

 

As brilliant as JO's single player campaigns are, the MP is an absolute random mess. This needs to be patched for me to even bother with it.

[MangelDisziplin]

sounds like you just arent very good

 

you can get out of chokes with a push and if its over a pit pull them in with u... Lightening is gone with force drain or absorb... What are you doing sitting there and letting them kill you? Want to come play with me? hehehe

[aZn-Dragon]

trust me. no matter how good u are, a 16 player ffa is a huge mess. there will be ppl with lightning everywhere, and several ppl with drain drops yer fps to a non playable style. not everyone has a good vid card.

 

my advice: join servers with 10 or less ppl. or play dueling games.

[Iodius]

Oh please!

 

I've played the original JK, SP and MP, the expansions and got JO the day it came out. I'm a very good player, thankyouverymuch. I've finished the game on Jedi Master!

 

So don't give me that "your not very good" rubbish. It's an overused excuse when you have no excuse.

 

Use force push when I'm being choked? Duh! I've tried that. It would work if I wasn't hanging over an abyss when I pushed him away!

[Valdarious]

Actualy swinging wildly is not easier than good timing and actualy knowing how it swings. I dont play on many servers in MP, I only play on ones that I know what in for. I play on Riven's server all the time and its wondering, people are nice and no one abuses force powers. He put the server on a post in here and put the password up so the people here at the boards could join. I wont say I am the best but I am pretty damn good, and I dont flail around like a monkey.

[Kalishnikov]

"Use force push when I'm being choked? Duh! I've tried that. It would work if I wasn't hanging over an abyss when I pushed him away!"

 

You need most of your force hotkeys right next to your movement keys. Also, you need to react quick enough to turn on absorb the second someone starts gripping you. The sound should make it very apparent so you don't have to wait until you're in the process of being hurled into the void. Absorb will also cure the lightning problems. The only thing you'll need to learn is when you absolutely need it on, and when you can afford to have it off.

[Iodius]

All my force keys are right next to my movement keys.

 

If to have fun on multiplayer I have to be a lifeless pathetic loser who plays JO 24-7, the it isn't worth my time.

[waxdart]

Saber-flailing is a problem, and it definitely detracts from the sense of 'movie-like' combat you get in the single-player component. There've been a lot of words spent already complaining that the multiplayer saber combat is far less refined, etc.

 

Seems like a heavy portion of the problem is just that people either:

 

a) don't understand the saber system enough yet, and so they 'button-mash' because it will still produce results (Eddy Gordo, anyone?), or

 

b) don't want to actually engage someone in a saber fight. I can't keep track anymore of people who won't actually stop running long enough to even get sabers colliding. It's all run-n-swipe, run-n-swipe to the point that I'm starting to abuse Force Pull just to get someone in range.

 

Give it time, I think. Every strategy has a counter, and techniques for sorting out the flailers will present themselves.

[Kalishnikov]

Well, there are some solutions:

 

1. A Duel gameplay server will have much less random swinging. 1 on 1.

2. Find a no force server.

3. Getting the timing down for absorb doesn't take years of training. Don't think that it will consume your life.

4. Servers with a lower amount of players will tend to yield less random gameplay.

[Essobie]

Originally posted by Iodius

All my force keys are right next to my movement keys.

 

If to have fun on multiplayer I have to be a lifeless pathetic loser who plays JO 24-7, the it isn't worth my time.

 

So what you are saying here is "This game has too much depth for me to invest the time into, so that means it's a random mess."

 

I've maybe played 2-3 hours of MP a day since I beat SP last week... and I'll even go out on a limb and say I'm pretty good.

 

Certainly not because I played JK1 and it's expansion... and certainly not because I played JK2 all the way through on the hardest setting. I'll say it because I've played at least 6 FPS games (both production and game modifications) that require similar reflexes and configuration organization to be competitive in this one.

 

While it is true that a large FFA LOOKS and IS a random mess to the majority of the players out there, the ones that are on the top of the scoreboard are not doing anything random to get there.

 

Essobie

[LukeSkywalker]

I agree totally,

 

the MP is totally random mess, I have more fun fighting bots offline than playing people, at least they don't go spastic on forces and don't go ape using the standard, hold down mouse button and press kays violently like an angry office worker.

 

SP sabre battles where/are interesting but MP just lacks the qualities people like

 

BTW anyone know any codes that can make MP sabrebattles like SP?

 

and that thing and inexperience and not being good is such a crap excuse think of another one pleeeasse

 

skywalker out...

[KaiserSoze]

at 1st i thought the same, its a random mess. i was playing on a force and saber only server and wondered how some ppl always got the upper hand in this mess. so i kept playing and nowadays i know that its not just random mess, it takes skill to be good. i been playing on many diffrent servers and i went from being worst to best now all the time. the saber fights are decided by skill and not my random swinging luck. of course now and then some lucky newbie swinger kills me but it doesnt happen often anymore.

 

and throwing people down is the most fun part in my opinion. i cant compare to single player saber fights ....... i never play single player games.

[Trienco]

you should. even if you dont care for single player get the ladder map. saber fights all the time, a lot of fun and you will instantly see why people are disappointed with saber fights in mp.

 

but i dont see a problem with random swinging folks. red style and let them run into your slash or just kick them down. works pretty well *g*

[Moolamb]

If i can get double the nearest player on 50 kills using only the lightsaber, I don't see why any one else can't, if we're all only just doing crazy flailing tactics.

 

Flailing sucks like crap. Everything in JK2 has a counter. Learn before you complain.

[p0rn0r0x]

mp is fun when you're playing with cool people. it's still pretty fun when you're playing with stupid people. i like the challenge of having to come up with ways to try and counter other people's play styles. all in all i think the force system ends up being pretty balanced in ffa/ctf. i haven't really played duel or any of the other modes, so i can't say anything about those.

[Moolamb]

Damn straight. We need more people like you.

[Trienco]

hm.. no counter against a dozen people running around each other swinging their saber like crazy... except not getting too close.

as a 'tactic' against a single player it wont work. he'll kick you, push you, throw his saber or just catch you with a heavy swing your running right into.

 

but i agree. finally found a saber only and it was.. a mess. most are even swinging around all the time when they walk through an empty corridor

[Ushgarak]

Clearly MP is always going to be rather manic. In the end, this IS an arcade game rather than some serious Jedi/sabre simulator.

 

You'd have to re-build the game from the ground up for it to work in a way a lot of the sabre purists would want (and I AM such a purist...). Then it would be less of an fps and more of a 'Jedi Simulator', and I'm not sure of that would prove as popular. It would be a very serious game for very serious people.

 

I guess you could make it more tactical with a few basic changes like slowing sidestepping and backstepping, but in the end that goes aginst the grain of what the game is, I think.

 

It might not even be possible to make multi-player sabre battles that work like the films, or even single player. Even the rather faux, showy swordfighting from the films is almost impossible to simulate with two humans on a computer.

[Jaif]

Stop whining: adapt.

 

RE: Grip & Drain

 

If you can't deal with grip & drain, then you aren't trying. I'm not a good FPS person, just mediocre, but I can handle them fine with absorb. That doesn't mean I win every single encounter, but I've killed quite a few after the initial drain/grip.

 

Stop whining: adapt.

 

RE: Grip campers

 

If someone is camping near a ledge there are number of things you can do to counter:

 

- Force seeing around corners. DUH!

 

- Snipe their butts.

 

- Absorb before and go in with the blaster/repeater/flechette. While they're gripping, you're killing them.

 

Stop whining: adapt.

 

RE: Saber Jocks

 

Guns baby, guns. If someone's mindlessly flailing away with the saber, I just retreat and gun'em down with the blaster. Of course, you could always try gripping them, which will send them to these boards complaining that they can't use their skilz due to the grippers. :-)

 

Stop whining: adapt.

 

RE: technical problems

 

Big games, big maps=big system drain. Dial down your resolution, textures, and so on, or find smaller games.

 

Stop whining: adapt.

 

Is this coming through clearly?

 

-Jeff

[Zero Jedi]

Stop whining: adapt.

Screw that, we all paid our $50 for the game, I think we've all got a right to a little "whining" at some point.

 

I agree that the MP is an absolute mess. And I've watched people try to come up with definitive "solutions" to all the complaints anyone's ever voiced, but in the end MP is still a carwreck and its not because the people complaining are doing something wrong.

If you can't deal with grip & drain, then you aren't trying

So using Force Push until the Force meter is drained out but missing everytime because whomever has you in a Grip is swinging you back and forth wildly isn't trying? Of course my favorite is getting caught in three Grips in a row by as many people, all of whom picked you up after the last person lost their grip on you when someone else ran up behind you all with Force Lightning. And then of course, most predictably, someone comes up behind all of you with a rocket launcher, which brings me to my next point...

Guns baby, guns.

Some of us got this game instead of Quake for a reason.

 

Stop playing JK2 as a gun game. Evolve.

 

And yes, "go play on a saber only server" would be a fine solution, if A) I could tell which ones were saber only before trying to load a game, and B) they existed. So far I'm guessing the only saber only servers left are either the duel ones (who wants to wait 45 min through a list of 15 people to finally have a duel when you could just play some bots) or the 10,000 ones that have passwords on them.

 

Anyway there's my two cents on it. JK2 is a great game, but too many people out there are determined to turn it into yet another mindless trigger-pulling detahmatch stereotype.

[GooglyMoogly]

It's a crap shoot. I find more "good" servers to play on very late at night (after the kids have gone to bed, the ones that are playing, I don't have any .

 

If I find myself on a server with flailing heavies, I usually just stand back and watch the herd get thinned out then take my pick of whom I'm going to fight.

 

I used to get pissed at gunners and force abusers, but I've found ways to deal with most of them. There are ony two guns I have difficulty retaliating against and the only Force power that really is a problem is drain because as many have said before IT DRAINS TOO QUICKLY. Before any of you state "just use absorb", I have and I do, but more often than not it's difficult to catch it with absorb before it's already drained you to the point you can't.

 

Anyhow...I'm sure this will all calm down after a while. The no-skill dweebs will get tired of the game and not having any saber skills and they'll leave. What we'll end up with is excellent saber wielders and some gunners. I can deal with that.

 

Don't worry so much about being in first place...it really doesn't matter. I don't respect anyone with a top score that has either A: gun spammed it B: heavy flailed it C: force abused it. If I meet someone that actually uses SKILL to fight in battles and comes out on top, now they earn my respect.

[Canis_Aureus]

Originally posted by Iodius

Oh please!

 

I've played the original JK, SP and MP, the expansions and got JO the day it came out. I'm a very good player, thankyouverymuch. I've finished the game on Jedi Master!

 

So don't give me that "your not very good" rubbish. It's an overused excuse when you have no excuse.

 

Use force push when I'm being choked? Duh! I've tried that. It would work if I wasn't hanging over an abyss when I pushed him away!

 

Well then it must be magic! I have no problems killing those "Headless Chicken" style fighters... Just take your time and you'll get them... Run backwards (and around them) and while they frenzy about just hit them with a few saber throws. Sometimes they stop to wonder why their tactics are failing... give them a heavy hit on those headless shoulders. It can take a while to kill them, but I almost always kill them. Of couse sometimes another player comes from behind and splits me in two halves... but hey that's FFA... play Duel if you don't like that. If there's a big mess of players fighting with sabers and you throw yourself in with them... you're asking for it... Pick a target not in the center and start with him. Sometimes I have cut down two or three at a time while they were spinning insanely around each other.

And for Grip... Well I assume he didn't grip you while you were over the abyss Just be faster and use force push or pull... also get him in the center of your crosshair the push/pull works better. Besides when he grips you he has no defence against push or pull... I have thrown a few into the galaxy that way. Absorb also works fine against grip... releases you instantly. The dark side is weaker against grip... but hey they deserve it since they invented it

 

I even win a game now and then... if there aren't too many gun users on a server. If more than 1/3 are using guns... it is hard indeed... and much worse than any of the force powers.

[Iodius]

Everyone here who is defending MP continually uses the excuse "but ues fings like grIp and stoff to get rid of ch0ke1!!1".

 

That woul work great if a.) the game wasn't so damn quick. Before I can react I'm hanging over an abyss. It is very rare when I can actually get a push or absord in to counter it. And b.) On the lightsabre dueling servers. 99.99999% are passworded, and the rest are full and take me 45 minutes to actually get into!

 

Run around the lightsabre flailer and throw your saber at them? That is the stupidest one I've heard yet. How can I possible run around someone when theyre running in the same or opposite direction as me! That makes it even harder.

 

I enjoy my SP campaign. And if I want duels or lightsabre fights, I play the LADDER map. No lightsabre flailing or force abusing out of those reborn.

[Juztyn]

First off, Iodius, nobody here has been using l33t speak or making stupid spelling mistakes like you have implied. Most people have made valid arguements and offered very good advice. You don't seem to want to accept the advice, and that's your choice, but regardless of what you think, it *is* good advice - in fact, most of it is in the manual. Push and pull are your friends.

[DxParry]

I'm on the side of saber using does require skill and all that. I play almost exclusivly on saber only servers, most of them being FFA - Duels. For those unaware, this is an FFA game where everyone takes turns dueling at a place (i.e. the landing pad in ffa_bespin). There's no worry about "cheap force powers" because in challenged duels you can only use jump, saber offense/defense, and saber throw. Now how do I always find these games? The All-Seeing Eye! It's like GameSpy 3D, but it supports JO. Now make a custom filter and put this in it:

 

1 if g_gametype ~!= "0" remove

2 if g_weaponDisable ~!= "65531" remove

3 if needpass > "0" remove

 

This makes it so only FFA games, that only allow Lightsaber, and do not have a password are shown.

 

So now you can go out and find these games that I play on, or make your own filter for the type of games you like.

 

edit: Here are some stats on a Saber Only FFA Games for Zero Jedi and everyone else:

 

There are currently 53 servers containing 296 players, all of them FFA, saber only.

 

DxParry

a.k.a. Okina, always willing to duel, usually willing to help