Tree Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by Pol Favre tips can be had right here. read through, most people tell what they do to avoid heavy-whores. just use light or medium stance and wait for their swing to completely finish, then engage quickly and pull back again. im not whining about it's power, im whining about how boring it is to whoop their asses. Give me the IP of where you normally play. Thats all I want, cause frankly I don't believe it. I have yet to see it. Consistantly. If the strong stance people you play against give you a chance to get inside on them, well, frankly they must be really terrible. I've said this before on a similar thread. Bringing a medium stance against heavy is like bringing a light stance against medium. A joke. Don't get me wrong it is possible for medium to kill strong and light to kill medium, it happens a good deal. It just takes WAY more skill to kill in a weaker stance. Thats the problem, thats why its unbalanced. Maybe they should have a server option to set it as one stance only. That would be fine with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by n0th1ng bump, red stance needs to be powered down negative, you power down the red stance and you'll have another yellow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamp Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by Pol Favre im not whining about it's power, im whining about how boring it is to whoop their asses. please, if that was the real problem you wouldn't be complaining about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h71y6 Posted April 8, 2002 Author Share Posted April 8, 2002 I must disagree, tree. To be honest, i fear a light/medium dueller more than a heavy. I have played against excellent players who can use all three stances but primarily stick to heavy. They make formidable opponents, and usually it makes for very exciting matches. To say that they win all the time is exaggerated. Again, there is no imbalance in my opinion, just an irritating bug(?) with the affect of the saber after the move. I met a guy who used light stance and beat a really good heavy stance guy. And i myself have used light in many occasions to victory. P.s. I don't want this informative thread to turn into another rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pol Favre Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Give me the IP of where you normally play. Thats all I want, cause frankly I don't believe it. I have yet to see it. Consistantly. If the strong stance people you play against give you a chance to get inside on them, well, frankly they must be really terrible. I've said this before on a similar thread. Bringing a medium stance against heavy is like bringing a light stance against medium. A joke. Don't get me wrong it is possible for medium to kill strong and light to kill medium, it happens a good deal. It just takes WAY more skill to kill in a weaker stance. Thats the problem, thats why its unbalanced. Maybe they should have a server option to set it as one stance only. That would be fine with me. are you saying i don't have the skill? the point is that it's annoying when n00bs use it, because they use it without skill and leave themselves open whiles they run about flailing and jump-diving repeatedly. it gets very boring. i just figured out how to counter it a day ago, so once i've tried it in a few more games i'll give you my IP address and whoop up on you if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteriousJedi Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 i use this move kind of often. i dont rely on it and i am good with saber when not using it, but when i see an opportunity to use it i will. anyway in my experience you can easily dodge it. its probably not the best idea to tell you this but it can be countered fairly easily as well. people usually just back up, but if you do a semicircle to their side they will miss you and you can slash them while they are crouched and open. if they use that bug where it will kill coming up you can jump to avoid that part of it. everytime i do that move i fear someone will figure out how to do that but it seems they cant get the timing down. ive killed people this way a few times so i know you can counter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agen Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Considering you're experienced and know how to tiem this right , you cna easily roll under them while they're in the air swinging and turn quickyl and jsut before they land throw your saber and there's a not bad chance it will hurt also roll out of the way or force push soemone with heavy, another good thing is lunge at them while they'ye ocming down to bring it to a saber lock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_One Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by MrCrusher Raven needs to add one more stance to the game "The defensive stance" A stance that will block all attacks from front and light attacks from the back. In this stance you cannot attack, maybe only Knock-back (a push in the form of a head butt, sabre butt or shoulder). Maybe the special move could be an evasive cartwheel or arial. This is a great idea. The defensive stond won't offer any attack except the kick and a hit with the back of the saber. This attack should also drain force power or else every body will be using it. Or they can make the combo's like the lunge and the medium and heavy stance trick inflict low damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_One Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 Originally posted by MrCrusher Raven needs to add one more stance to the game "The defensive stance" A stance that will block all attacks from front and light attacks from the back. In this stance you cannot attack, maybe only Knock-back (a push in the form of a head butt, sabre butt or shoulder). Maybe the special move could be an evasive cartwheel or arial. This is a great idea. The defensive stond won't offer any attack except the kick and a hit with the back of the saber. This attack should also drain force power or else every body will be using it. Or they can make the combo's like the lunge and the medium and heavy stance trick inflict low damage. And the regular attacks won't do damage. Except if you do a stab in the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aletoledo Posted April 8, 2002 Share Posted April 8, 2002 I don't think anything is wrong with the red stance except this one hit kill. it'd be nice to hear ravens opinion on this matter, to see if this was intended or not. I could live with it then. I don't believe anyone saying that they have damage anyone well they were at the end of the one-hit-kill swing. I've tried it numerous times and its never worked. I've only managed a hit after they've stood up and moved off. I suspect that many of you thinking you've hurt someone doing this have actually just attacked a normal jumping slash down attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cracken Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Sure, the patented n00bmove pisses me off, but at least it's over quickly. What I hate more are the guys who take a swing at you, then back off, then take another swing, whittling down your health to the point of no recovery. Then, if they do the n00bmove as a coup de grace, I begin to weep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RabidPlatypus Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 I use strong stance 1 on 1 but I barely ever use the overhead unless as a last resort. Usually I charge with a horizontal slash or if they are charging me I use an upwards diagonal slash. Of course, if I kick someone to the ground I'm going to take the oppurtunity to overhead a saber right through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camp3r Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 i have to agree.. just about nothing more annoying than a strong stancer that just swings then backpeddles, swings then backpeddles, rinse and repeat. i usually just run off and leave them to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aletoledo Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 I think many of you are still missing the point....its not the red/heavy stance that one hit takes away 100 points of armor/health...its the attack that takes away 300 points. you really have to see it once or twice to know we're talking about, since its really just started to get going this past weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Omega Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 I know the heavy hit does 100, but the special does 300?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Originally posted by Cracken Sure, the patented n00bmove pisses me off, but at least it's over quickly. What I hate more are the guys who take a swing at you, then back off, then take another swing, whittling down your health to the point of no recovery. Then, if they do the n00bmove as a coup de grace, I begin to weep. Thats exactly what I have been talking about. The swing/backoff thing. This is the only thing I ever see strong stance ppl doing. I'm talking bout NF duels and FFA's here. Apparently everyone here knows how to counter it. But its absolutely amazing as much as I have play I have never seen these medium/light stance ppl who OWN strong stance ppl. Guess I'm just playing on the wrong servers. I'm not saying the red stance totally owns everyone hands down. It's just not balanced. I think they need to do more than just fix that one gay jump move. Well I'm done crying about it now I just hope Raven does something about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h71y6 Posted April 9, 2002 Author Share Posted April 9, 2002 you're right tree. You're at the wrong servers! I just finished playing and we had a duel where everyone who stayed till the end were medium or light. Everyone that uses strong came and left in a hurry when they found themselves losing often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 Give the IP. Pls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorpheusX Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 I have somewhat mixed feelings on the whole "red is overpowered" statement. I do think that it's range makes it very hard to attack against, because if someone knows how to swing the hard stance right, they create a large area of "don't touch this" around themselves. However, I've seen people (and am learning myself) who will use medium and light stance and rush down a hard stancer hard....it's just a matter of knowing when to roll in and put pressure on. The jumping unblockable over and over again is lame, I will not argue this fact. I do admit that I am a hard stance wh0re, and I've learned very well how to duck and weave with the stance and hit people quite often. I do occasionally use the leap forward lunge attack, but very rarely, and only as a surprise tactic. I'm definitely not one of those guys who constantly bounces around in the unblockable trying to take people out, and my experience has been that any dueler that tries that tactic is SO owned if you know how to sidestep slice. Yes they can re-aim, but if you do a sweeping red slash and sidestep past the person while they're in the "poking sword in the ground" animation, they get hit down to 20 health (or killed), and you tend to get off scott free...especially if you do a backwards roll if your slash misses, so he can't hit you by accident with that stupid unblockable. Red vs Red ends up being a battle of who knows how to dance. The back up lunge in is a powerful attack, and I've found not very many people use it effectively. Red vs Yellow yellow can win if yellow looks for the sweep, then rolls in and puts on a quick rushdown. Yellow can get 3 fast hits in before red can recover from a slash, and if Yellow can do a backwards jump or roll if the red slash starts coming in again, yellow can easily dodge out before the red hits. Rinse, repeat, and yellow should be able to win. Red vs Blue I don't have many words of wisdom. I've had a couple of people get in REALLY close and just keep me pinned with Blue attacks before I could retaliate, and I died, but it's pretty rare. Most of the time if someone goes blue against me and has any kind of advantage I roll out and switch to yellow for speed. Hope this helps....not trying to rag on too many people but my honest feeling is that those who're whoring Red stance's unblockable are just scrubs waiting to die. Those whoring Red stance in general are not being "cheap" or "unfair", because quite frankly, it can be beaten if you know what you're doing. I'd consider myself one of the better red saberists I've seen, and I have been beaten by good saberists of all types, when they did the right moves. [-BB-]Morpheus online http://www.burningblade.org We've got a duel server up, so some good players should meet me there and show me tricks I haven't learned yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zariyn Posted April 9, 2002 Share Posted April 9, 2002 I don't mind the ublockable one-hit kill jump attack. The move I hate is the horizontal swipe. Swing, backpedal, swing, backpedal, over and over. Toss in Drain and you have a virtually invincible combination if the player knows what he/she is doing. I can dodge all I like, but that doesn't help me kill him any. I usually go for a kick to the face, followed by a forward+slash (yellow stance), followed by another kick (or push) if they haven't retreated. This combo usually puts me in good shape as far as the fight goes. I'd like to see them make the unblockable jump attack in heavy unable to turn at all when executing it. Straightfoward jump, no turning/moving until the animation is finished. I think the other heavy attacks should have somewhat limited mobility as well, requiring the user to take the mobility hit for the added power in their swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkEra Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 I've noticed this too, it just seems like the hit-boxes are a bit too big at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_One Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 *The red stance swing backoff and repeating it isn't lame. It's strategie is would we stupid to stand there and wait untill you can hit again. *You can even begin judging the other stances i people could play with them. *And it's easy to counter us reddie's by throwing etc... *But my tactic is a little bit complecated. It's a combination of all 3 stances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Originally posted by MorpheusX I have somewhat mixed feelings on the whole "red is overpowered" statement. I do think that it's range makes it very hard to attack against, because if someone knows how to swing the hard stance right, they create a large area of "don't touch this" around themselves. However, I've seen people (and am learning myself) who will use medium and light stance and rush down a hard stancer hard....it's just a matter of knowing when to roll in and put pressure on. This is the ONLY way I have found to deal with strong stance ppl. You try to play the distance game and you will get messed up. In close fighting can kinda be tough cause its kind of buggy. Thats part of the reason I think it works. If you swing and miss then its tough to get out in time. I must say though Morpheus this is the first pro-red argument that sounds like it comes from someone who actually plays multiplayer. Refreshing. I still think it takes more skill for a light/medium stance to beat a strong stance. I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h71y6 Posted April 11, 2002 Author Share Posted April 11, 2002 Bleh... this tread was created to point out the aftereffect bug of the unblockable move, not the imbalance of the strong stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Posted April 11, 2002 Share Posted April 11, 2002 Yes if you go back through and look at my post I explained..... Its not a bug its the extreme range of the stance. The reach goes beyond the end of the saber. Then I went on *****ing about how the extreme range makes the stance gay in general........ Sorry:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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