Advice for Anyone Struggling to Get Kills

[Jaif]

BacMeth,

 

With all due respect, I really have to take issue with some of your post.

 

the most ppl that use the cheap "whore" tactics r ppl that have a inferiority complex need a high frag count to strengthen their ego

 

You need a high frag count to win the game. When I play games, I try to win. This doesn't mean I cheat, nor do I kick puppies when I lose, but I do compete. I certainly understand trying different strategies, and the idea of limiting yourself to see if you can still do better (the STJ strat), but that doesn't make people who play the game as it was made "whores".

 

There's a concept in sports: I'll use football for now. It's called "make them stop you". If you have a great running back, then ram it down the other team's throat. If they can't adjust to one tactic, they lose. If they do adjust, hope you have another one.

 

The reverse philosophy (defensive) is "stop one thing, and make'em beat you with the rest." You may decide to key on a great running back, say, and force them to use a different back or the passing game to beat you.

 

That's why I like absorb: there are a lot of people who use Drain & Grip - with absorb, I take that away and tell them "now beat me with what you have left". Some adapt, others lose.

 

Last, I too use the saber. I don't know the moves, and I mostly use it for defensive purposes (get outta dodge time), but I'll happily cut someone down if I can. Works great in closets. :-)

 

-Jeff

[BacMeth]

you kinda misunderstood me i think

 

i said the ones that use the cheap tactics.. the so called whores

are the ones that get mad... not the ones that normally use the forces

the ones that only use drain and lightning.. or only the rocket launcher

 

the ones that get 90% of their kills by pushing other ppl down

(in the streets map for example)

i too use absorb alot

but if the guy is coming from behind and sux all your force away...

 

its just that too many ppl use drain

 

almost everyone tries to go the easy way...

 

most of the guys that were using these techniques were having a bad temper

they said things like : i'm leaving now.. this place isnt challenging me.. only n00bs in here

when i killed them

(this is true.. it really happened to me.. not only once)

 

thats why i dont like ffa...

 

sorry jaif .. didnt meant to insult you....

i just want the community to develop more variations of techniques.. not just only drain+ lightning or drain+ grip

or push and grip to throw ppl into the cratering zones

[Jaif]

Sounds like we're on the same page, then.

 

 

Adapt, improvise, overcome.

 

Have you saber users ever really thought about your situation and tried to change it? I'm running around with a gun, seeing, and absorb kicking ass, and I'm really not that good of an FPS player. The reason it works is that other people are out there doing one thing, and absorb stops that one thing.

 

I saw something, and developed my own way (not claiming sole inventor status) to counter it.

 

One of these days you saber-jockeys are going to (sorry) buy a clue and come at me with seeing, speed, and protect. You'll see me before I see you, approach as rapidly as possible, and throw up protect as I start firing. If you close with a gun wielder, they're history.

 

The darkside version of this, btw, is rage. You're relying on sheer speed and brief invincibility to take someone out. Seeing is still crucial so you can find a place to recover. No, you don't need drain: bacta tanks and simple health-doohickeys (whatever they're called) work just fine.

 

Adapt, improvise, overcome. Stop whining about what they do, and start using the tools at hand.

 

-Jeff

[Kuroshi]

If you close with a gun wielder with protect on, the guy should get his force mojo going.

[Hell Raiser]

Originally posted by Emon

I have an easier way. Pickup the Flechette or Repeter gun and blast guys to oblivion. It's how I manage to stay in the top 3 of most servers.

 

Ditto. Anybody with half a brain can nail someone 50-100ft away with alt repeater fire, way before any force powers can be deemed useful, or effective.

 

It's best to be skilled in both saber and guns. Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

[ChrisTheS]

Originally posted by AB_Legion

 

-Using the "KICK" in duels is a great splendor. Especially against Light/Med stance players (generally it isn't wise to get up close to a person using the Strong stance since you'll probably get battered)

 

-When used properly it can topple opponents over and leaves them unguarded and liable to a big smack with the infamous Strong Stance, it's generally un-avoidable unless you can't aim for crap.

[/b]

 

I just discovered this tactic myself in botmatch this afternoon, and liked it so much that I racked up 70 kills to maybe 8 deaths (all of those due to temporary negligence).

 

One thing I've noticed about this, though, is that it enables you to really kick arse without ever leaving Strong stance. There are several advantages to this:

 

1) In the first place, doing the Kick (even if they don't fall down) still does damage, and since you do a backflip if you've got jump, the saber stance has a fair chance of doing some damage on the flip as well.

 

2) The position of the saber makes blocking saber throws much easier; in Light or Medium, a thrown saber has a higher chance to get past your guard, but in Strong I've only had it happen twice (and since I was playing a bot that started out EVERY match by throwing its saber, that's a good track record).

 

3) On a related note, Strong stance also has a better chance of blocking regular strokes (even if you're already swinging), so it's very hard to be hit in this stance.

 

3) Doing a Strong stroke while the target is down stands a very good chance of an instant kill; and even if not, the amount of damage that you'll do will be so great that all you have to do is another kick (assuming that they haven't got any way of healing themselves) and they're toast.

 

4) Just touching your opponent in Strong will deal out major hurt (I'm currently working on perfecting the technique of catching people on the upstroke of a swing, to get the advantage of a spin without actually having to do a spin).

 

In short, while Strong slows down play dramatically, if used right it can dominate the other stances.

 

-- ChrisTheS

Damen Maxar

Darth Cryssoth

Who will one day actually try out these techniques on a human player... when he's no longer on dialup.

[Bludshot]

I just wish there was a "WTF?" skin for the face of the dead fools who can't fathom that I Pushed their alt-fire right back into their smiling faces... (on those rare occasions that I actually time it correctly and don't end up toasted )

 

 

All of this talk of whores.... reminds me of complaints about strafejumping and rocketjumping in Q3A. Learn to abuse it as well or learn to live with the sound of your own whining. All of the powers and weapons are in the game for anyone to use. If you are getting raped by the same maneuver/force combo, figure out a counter or learn to use it the same as your foe. If it works that well, than why shouldn't you use it as well.

 

It's just a game. Learn how to play it. Learn how to enjoy it.

 

I'm personally awaiting the mod where you pull a parachute after falling into one of the many pits and glide to safety in a secret ammo cache, or just use the Pull to pull yourself back up.

[EKM]

Why not take a nod from TPM?

 

"Ascension guns!"

[ChrisTheS]

Originally posted by Bludshot

I just wish there was a "WTF?" skin for the face of the dead fools who can't fathom that I Pushed their alt-fire right back into their smiling faces... (on those rare occasions that I actually time it correctly and don't end up toasted )

 

Or do something akin to the little smily-face on flak cannon shells in UT...

 

All of this talk of whores.... reminds me of complaints about strafejumping and rocketjumping in Q3A. Learn to abuse it as well or learn to live with the sound of your own whining. All of the powers and weapons are in the game for anyone to use. If you are getting raped by the same maneuver/force combo, figure out a counter or learn to use it the same as your foe. If it works that well, than why shouldn't you use it as well.

 

That's always been the assumption I go with; if it's in the game, it's meant to be used, therefore there should be no stigma on using it unless the developers specifically identify it as a bug. I've never been able to understand why there's always such a community antipathy toward certain methodology (particularly sniping).

 

Now, when people do certain things just because they're easy, and making no effort to attempt the more difficult stuff... THAT is lame (and is part of the reason why I don't play StarCraft anymore... being a habitual Terran and being constantly faced by swarms of people playing Zerg because they're the easiest to win with). Once you get stuck in a rut with a game, there's really no point in playing it anymore.

[Chacal]

I just want to thank RAVEN for the Sabre Only battles on Mp.

 

Those rock.

 

If I wanted guns I would play Quake III or UT or Counterstrike.

 

Sabre capture the flag. Nothing better.

 

 

My 2 cents.

 

Chacal

[AeroBLASTER]

hehehehe... Newbies are funny

 

I'm usually first place, and if not am in the top three.

 

Anyone who uses Lightning is a newbie - it requires absolutely no skill. You don't have to aim, you don't have to move, you don't have to target... just find some people battling, sit back and hold down the use force button... Sad...

 

Anyone who overuses guns is a newbie... this can (although not always) show a lack of skill... A primary indication of this is the use of the lame and dumb bryar pistol when you have a lightsaber.

 

Anyone who overuses grip/push/pull for throwing people off the edge is a newbie. No skill required, especially with push.

 

Anyway, I'm amazed at the number of stupid people. People that attack you when you challenge them to duels, people using lightning... Heh...

 

I personally have no trouble racking up kills with the use of my lightsaber, an occasional, gun and a tad bit of grip cheapness...

[Darkius006]

Just because i spam Force Grip doesnt make a n00b with a lightsaber.

 

I love doin Saber duels with people although 80% odd percent of the time i win

[Lajos]

Originally posted by BacMeth

you kinda misunderstood me i think

 

the ones that get 90% of their kills by pushing other ppl down

(in the streets map for example)

i too use absorb alot

but if the guy is coming from behind and sux all your force away...

 

Don't sweat it, same problem was in Jedi Knight: MOTS. Then someone invented something called "The Grapple". In fact most people that played JK online had a grapple gun mod installed, made all the force pushin etc people have to rethink their strategies. I'm sure someones working on one now

[Jaif]

You know people, first hit does rule in an FPS. Doesn't matter if it's alt-fire rockets or drain, the person who gets the first strike is going to win more often than not.

 

So if someone sees you first and pushes you off a ledge, it's not push that's the problem, or the ledge, but "seeing". Tough luck, see them first next time.

 

If you see them first, and they push you off the ledge, you just stink. Take up needlepoint. :-)

 

-Jeff

[dkc4C]

Um, Aero, just because a force power requires no skill it use it doesn't mean everyone who uses it is a newbie. Under your definition, I suppose Heal, Absorb, and Protect are "newbie" skills to.

 

By the same token, I don't believe people who push or pull off ledges are newbies - rather, the people who it happens to are newbies for not being able to counter any of this. There is nothing in the game that cannot be countered...

 

Overuse of guns doesn't necessarily show that someone is a newbie - in fact I think it rarely shows that. If someone is using the Flechette weapon 24/7 and totally owning everyone, more power to them, I say. I agree with you on the point that people who use the Bryar or E-11 against Saber users aren't too smart, however Although it is quite easy to Alt-Fire someone in the back with a Bryar when they're charging at you with the saber.

[Nagalaz]

I think that too many people complain about grip. I personally use it liberally to throw people off ledges. Am I a newbie? No. Am I cheesy? No. Why? Because grip can be coutered *very* easily. A simple push/pull is sufficient, a saber throw may cause them to break it off, and some skillfull players can finish you with their saber or counter grip you. Absorb works wonders, and not to mention grip is relatively difficult to use. Did I also mention you still have some control over your movement? You can counter move their grip and slow them movement down, and its not simple, smooth sailing off the ledge. Grip is *very* easily countered like I mentioned before.

 

I am certainly not bragging but Ive become very efficient using grip. I have learned not to be a cheeze and run up on 2 duelists, or from behind. 80% of the time at least I can grip someone when they and/or me is in the middle of a jump. Hard to learn. In many maps too many peeps fall in love with the explosives (rocket launcher, repeater alt fire, trip mines etc) that will blow you away the second you get near them. If you want to keep up without being a total skill less n00b (using those weapons) then you MUST use grip and drain to maximum effect.

 

Grip is not just for throwing off ledges. I use it constantly to move opponents or throw off their stride during duels. An excellent tactic is to break off early and change your timing. Many players understand how much time they have till it wears off and is ready. By dropping them early you catch them off guard and can deliver the kick and/or fatal saber swing. I also hold opponents for team mates to wear off.

 

If any power is too cheezy its push/pull. Little skill required and its devastating for pits. Ive had many a foe do me in without even seeing them due to the insane range those powers have. I REALLY hate jumping across a pit and someone just standing there pulling me till i fall in. Grip at least you must get close and avoid countermeasures. To a dark jedi with no absorb push/pull account for FAR more deaths than grip/lightning/drain ever do. Lets also consider that in the time you finish gripping your opponent (who is very much on their feet) and time to deliver your attack is a very narrow window to finish them. Jedi with push/heavy stance can have you dead before you realize whats happening.

 

I just love it when i use my grip in its myriad forms to finish opponents by throwing/holding/augmenting my saber and the jerks who are cheezing with explosives, and push/pull start complaining because im owning them. They claim "grip is for newbs" as they polish off 6 people with their heavy repeater in alt fire mode.......why dont we all lay off whining about grip that at least takes some skill compared to any other force power.

[Galakgorr]

I agree, dkc4c. If you aren't quick enough to counter someone's move, maybe you need to work a little on your skills, aero?

 

One of the most effective styles for a one-on-one fight (duel or not), imho, is just to wait and react to what they're doing. They wanna swing hard? Kick them and swing light or medium between their moves. They're spinning like morons with light style? Push them down, or stand back and let em have it with a heavy swing or force lightning.

 

Any force move they use on you can be countered. You just need to stop swinging around all the time and keep your guard up. There really is no "cheap" move that they can use on you; some would say that things like drain and lightning are unfair, but that's just cause they're more obviously offensive. More subtle powers like absorb and Mind Trick are equally as powerful, but you have to use them differently.

 

Obviously, as far as guns go, if you're in range, pull the guns out of their hands. If not, block what you can, and push away rockets and such. Guns can be countered just like anything else.

 

All you do is wait for them to leave an opening, then let loose with whatever you've got (saber, guns, grip, lightning, drain, etc). If they're open, you score the hit, and they won't be able to counter-attack you right back. This strategy works for me 90% of the time.

[Twins of Doom]

i also agree that grip isn't cheap..........but it's cheap if a person goes around and grips EVERYBODY 24/7 because then it's just a pain in the @$$. Personally i use grip sometimes, but i prefer to go in a saber only FFA with force disabled IMO makes the game more fun than running up to some cheap @$$ b@$t@rd who will just use explosives grip or pull 24/7

[TheArch]

one little trick a friend of mine and I use is mind trick and kick. . .

 

Because with mind trick an ordinary (guns/saber)attack will make you visible. . .however by kicking you stay conscealed. It is hysterical (not effective always) to kick someone who is right next to you and watch them spin around and around trying to find you, only to have you kick them to the ground again.

 

the best is on nar shadda streets, kicking someone off a ledge and they never knew you were there. . .(unless they are listening)

[Faethor]

Grip used to annoy the hell out of me... but imagine that... I worked at the game a bit more and now I'm able to counter it a helluva lot better...

[Dusan]

Heavy is all I use.

 

I like it because you decide where the saber is going to go. There's no need for "different" saber attacks such as bottom to up downward slash etc.

All you need is left-to-right slash and then you can just your mouse to guide it. It's so slow it's better because you are able to strafe around your opponent and hit him whereever he is.

Look:

 

 

+-----------------o------------------+

 

The o is you. You can use heavy to hit anything between the +s

with medium or light you can only hit like this:

 

|---------+-------o------+----------|

 

You can't guide it because it's too fast. It's mostly luck. The only strategies with light and medium that work are aggresive strategies (like you suggested). They do work but are often bases solely on luck. The whole point of a aggresive fast stance strategy against a heavy player is hoping you'll overwhelm him or her to the point he lets and attack get through. Heavy is a more timed and precision stance.

 

As far as grip goes your "claim" is totally inaccurate and assumed.

Grip is easy to use. If someone's coming at you , you just point, click, point to your right. They are off the edge in NS and gone.

This can happen in 1/2 a second. The human brain cannot analyze that fast and react to it. You cannot either think every player is going to use it and use protect because you don't always have the force power not to mention it sucks it all up leaving you wide open to push/whatever else they have you can't counter or block.

On regular maps not NS grip is similarly lame but more stupid. A light player will just use heal and he'll soon be back on his feet. It's mainly a waste of both your energies.

[Lupar_Fiend]

heh, AeroBLASTER

 

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hehehehe... Newbies are funny

 

I'm usually first place, and if not am in the top three.

 

Anyone who uses [Enter Skill Here] is a newbie - it requires absolutely no skill. You don't have to aim, you don't have to move, you don't have to target... just find some people battling, sit back and hold down the use force button... Sad...

 

Anyone who overuses [Enter something else here] is a newbie... this can (although not always) show a lack of skill... A primary indication of this is the use of the lame and dumb [Enter Weapon here]when you have a [Enter another weapon here].

 

Anyone who overuses [Enter skill here] is a newbie. No skill required, especially with [skill].

 

Anyway, I'm amazed at the number of stupid people. People that attack you when you challenge them to duels, people using [skill]... Heh...

 

I personally have no trouble racking up kills with the use of my [weapon], an occasional, [other weapon] and a tad bit of [skill]cheapness...

 

 

****************************************************

[Twins of Doom]

luper_fiend i'm in total agreement with you, i hate it when you turn off your saber to duel with somebody and they'll just take out their saber and slash and slash at you......

 

personally i like medium attack stance but i open a duel up with a heavy attack to knock em to hell and back and then i'm pretty much unpredictable because i use all the stances;)