Elite Force 2 and the Quake 3 engine

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Wicket the Ewok

And don't tell me you haven't got a good enough connection to play games on-line, I was playing Duke Nukem 3D/Quake on-line when broadband was still a twinkle in an engineer's eye.

 

So you're an expert on everyone's internet connection? I think people should know if they are able to play online or not.

 

BTW, Duke Nukem and Quake came out at a time when broadband wasn't widely available...so they were designed to be playable on lower connection speeds.

 

Current games have so much going on in them, that slower connections are obviously going to struggle, IMO.

 

Having said that, I actually managed to find a server where my ping didn't go up to 999 - for the few matches I played, at least. It even dipped below 200 on a few occasions...giving me the opportunity to have my first proper saber duel.

 

Yes, I can play Jedi Outcast with heavy lag (high ping)...but I have to use splash damage weapons most of the time (which everyone complains about), put up with Connection Interrupted messages every five minutes (and subsequent multiple deaths), and squint at a screen giving me jerk-o-vision for most of the playing time. I don't know about you, but that doesn't equate to an enjoyable experience to me...and if it's not enjoyable, it's not worth doing.

[StormHammer]

Originally posted by Joruus

I'm by no means denigrating Ravens ability to turn out excellent games. Which is the impression you seem to be getting.

 

Good to hear. Misinterpretation mode OFF.

 

Valve didn't just patch and sit back and watch the mod communities carry their game, far from it. They bought the entire CS development team. They also partially subsidized Fire-Arms, they saw the strength of a multiplayer community and encouraged it by rewarding the best work.

 

I was not aware of that. However, it could still be argued that Valve, having sold so many units, could afford to invest in some of those from the Mod community. It is a symbiotic relationship in that without the Mod community, the base game of Half-Life would not have been so successful, and if it had not been so successful, Valve would not have been able to invest in the community. A lot of the additional MP game modes did not initially come from Valve, and so they cannot take full credit for their own game's success - that was the point I was trying to make. As you stated, the engine is far behind the times...and this is where my disappointment with Valve lies. They do not seem to have tried to bring an even better gaming experience to their established community by releasing another game in the series with a vastly improved engine. Other developers (such as EPIC/DE with UT2) are trying to do that.

 

The next big game is always good. SP games are excellent. But being able to play and compete in a strong multiplayer community is a great experience. To run a clan through the major leagues, to build a name for your "internet alias" as a strong player. To make friends with the people you play with. These are the things that keep me buying games...

 

I don't disagree...and it's highly commendable. Those who are able to have an enjoyable online MP experience should certainly continue to do so. And you are right in that the MP aspects of a game will often extend the longevity, and build some very strong communities, which is good to see. I too hope the same will be true for Jedi Outcast.

 

Perhaps you are right in that Raven's previous games have not had very strong MP followings, and there are probably some good reasons for that. The MP aspects of their recent games have not really brought anything completely new to the table - except for Jedi Outcast, and potentially SOF2, with it's RMG. I think this has in large part been because they focus on a strong SP game first, and then build in some standard MP for people to enjoy the game online. Including DM, Team DM and CTF covers only the standard game modes, while not offering anything new except in terms of weapons and equipment. You may be right that they should focus more on maintaining the MP side of certain titles, with regular updates, and adopting things coming from the Mod community in a broader and more focused way.

 

However, the problem is that there are already a large number of good MP titles already out there...and it is ever more difficult to draw people away from the favourite game types. CS has been enormously successful...and no one really knew how successful it would be. The Mod team that created it hit on a great idea, and it has now been supported. But not every developer is so lucky. If you look at RTCW it is probably the best example, now, that to produce a great SP game and a great MP game, you are really looking at two separate teams, each with a focus on one aspect, in order to get your title on the shelves in a reasonable time. I can see the SP/MP split occurring more often in the future, to be honest, with some developers focusing on one or the others. There are quite a few MP-biased or MP-only titles in the works at the moment that will use any SP part to the game as a training ground or stepping-stone to the MP experience. This is a turnaround to game development in the past, where SP came first, and MP later. So the playing field is certainly changing – and I think the better MP experiences will come from games with that as their primary focus – like UT2, and Battlefield 1942, etc…

[Fyunch Click]

Some good points there Stormhammer.

 

The industry over the past year seems to have been focused on producing two types of games: MP and SP. The Hybrid MP/SP doesn't really exist anymore sadly. Even JK2 doesn't count if you compare it in length to it's predecessor in length.

Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed the singleplayer experience of JK2 but it wasn't as immersive as JK's was.

The classic examples of the split were Quake 3, Unreal Tournament and Starsiege:Tribes. All these games were designed as multiplayer only. Sure there were token single player experiences, but with Bots only. These games were only designed for online play. Then you had another extreme. Games like No One Lives Forever, Unreal and Deus Ex. These games were designed with the Single player experience in mind.

 

Game design is based now on time. Time is money. There is not enough development time to truly incorporate both a truly immersive SP and MP experience. RTCW took a different tactic relying on 2 design houses, one for MP and one for SP. It was successful at the MP in my opinion and was partilly successful at the Sp as well. (It started well but suffered in the later stages of the SP, IMHO)

 

I think we might see more of the RTCW design philosphy in the future with split development since it seemed to work fairly well and created a successful game. Development timne has been reduced now with the licensing of game engines like the DOOM engine, the Unreal engine and the Lithetch engine and that can be a good thing. However, I also look forward to smaller design houses and what they might offer. An example of this would be the new First person horror game coming out soon based in the Call of C'thulhu universe done by Fishtankgames. It uses a proprietary engine, has co-operative play, has incredible visual effects and promises unique gameplay that isn't exactly like the Quakes and Unreals we currently see.

 

I'm not sure how this thread got so completely off track, sorry if it was partially my fault.

 

I'm looking foraward to what Ritual is going to do with Elite Force 2. I just hope it doesn't suck.