Dark Forces...

[Demyse]

I've been thinking. Lately, because of JO, I've been playing Dark Forces (Yes the original). The first few levels of JO left me wanting more. While I love the lightsaber, the stormtrooper blasting action of the first few levels of JO we're some great fun that I had forgotten when JK1 game around. I never saw a Dark Forces to JK mod for JK, but I didn't really care, the saberless levels in JK weren't that great.

 

But back to the topic, I'd like to see a Dark Forces -> JO mod. I think this would be pretty cool and pretty popular. I'd be glad to map for it, I'm very fluent with the Radiant Editor (I've been making DeathMatch maps for Quake Series games since Q2, although I never was able to put any on sites, just cause at the time I didn't think they were good enough. My loss.) and I know Dark Forces by heart (I've beaten it twice since I installed it 3 days ago, both times on hard.)

 

As for legal stuff, before any work could be done on such a mod, we could first query LucasArts about it, asking them if it would be alright.

 

This is basically asking (For the Idjits who don't like reading) who would A) Like to see a Dark Forces to JO mod and B) Like to help make it happen.

[Wes Janson SMR]

Man, this mod would be a huge pain-in-the-ass to develop. But it's more feasable than a JK1 mod.

 

I really don't have the time to help you, but I can tell you this: get some good voice tallent for Kyle and Jan. If you mod DF, you'd better do it right, and add in cutscenes in place of the text briefings.

 

And though I know no one will admit it, I believe that Kyle had some budding Jedi powers even as early as Dark Forces. How else could one man infiltrate an Imperial base to steal the Death Star plans, eh?

[MessiahErebus]

was there even jumping in that game? i remember very little about that game, except that in the level where you get the phrick metal, if you use some cheats there is a crazy ewok in a cave.

[Schizophrenic]

I highly doubt a direct DF -> JK2 mod would be allowed. Lucasarts wouldn't allow it because it would take away their ability to possibly make such a conversion of their own in the future and sell it. It's one of those tricky copyright things that everybody hates these days.

 

However, a JK2 mod that is in the spirit of DF (but not exactly like it) would be allowed, but then that really wouldn't be DF.

[Lazarus-Spike]

theres a editor to convert the jk1 maps to jo somewhere in this forum,it wouldnt be that difficult, really, but I think its somethign that raven should look into, I also wouldnt mind seeinf an "I, Jedi" add on pack fromt hem as to be honest they will make it better than anyone else

[Demyse]

Well, first off, Lazarus, READ the post next time. I'm not suggesting a JK1 -> JK2 mod. I'm suggesting some of us redo Dark Forces.

 

As for the legal stuff, yea, I figure that LucasArts will say no. I think I might make a small mission series based during the period between MoTS and JK2 though. I'm guessing its been a few years since he turned his lightsaber over, but who knows.

 

Oh, and Wes, about the budding Jedi powers, I doubt it. You've got to remember this is the Rebel Alliance's super commando! He survived being on the Executor, took out a Type 3 Dark Trooper, and just simply kicks ass. Period.

 

P.S. One thing I'd like to see though is Kyle in his old armor with the leather jacket, like he was in Dark Forces!

[Lazarus-Spike]

my point was being that there may be someway to update from dark forces to JO aswell, dont get your knickers in a twist

[Demyse]

Having mapped for Dark Forces, my guess is that there probably isn't a way. It uses an old psuedo 3d method of mapping in someplaces, where they used models instead of actual brushes (they wern't called brushes then, I couldn't think of the correct word though). Not to mention, it'd be better if we ported the maps over by hand, we could make them look a whole lot better. There are so many factors that make that near impossible to do, and if we could do it, the levels would pretty much look like crap. If some of us do ask LucasArts (I haven't pushed it out of my mind yet, I'm thinking of sending the e-mail today) if we can do it, I've got a copy of the Strategy guide that contains maps of all the levels, plus, I've been playing DF recently, so I pretty much know how the maps go.

 

As for my knickers being in a twist, actually say that you were thinking that in your first post, we can't read your mind....

[Wes Janson SMR]

If you were to do this, it'd have to be like Dark Forces, but not a ported Dark Forces. Change up the architecture. Make this more logical. Emphisize stealth in more missions. Add in rudementary passive Force abilities like "Blaster Dodge", "Super Marksman" and "Force Intuition" (dumbed down version of Spidey Sense). Let Jan accompany you on mission and not leave her in the Crow all the time. Let Boba Fett give Kyle the smack-down.

 

Basically, exercise your creative liberties, and get those juices flowing.

[Lazarus-Spike]

ahhhh Demyse you are not as strong in the force as I thought lol, Im a bit of an ecentric, I dont always put what I mean, bad-habit

[The_One]

This has really grabbed my attention If you do get the go ahead from LEC I would be more than willing to help. This is depending on what happens with that e-mail though.

 

I am a graphics artist in my spare time, and also a web designer. I work for an up and coming gaming website, we could get hosting there and some forums, all free and no banners or anything. I could do a website and help you out with graphics in the game. But that's a big if for if you get the go ahead from LEC.

 

But keep me posted on whatever you're going to do, I think if you can't get the go-ahead from LEC, you should do a TC in the style of Dark Forces. I would love to help out in the areas I have suggested.

 

Give me an e-mail at heavypear@hotmail.com if you're at all interested.

[Tzar Sectus]

Well, this sounds jolly good. I'm a big fan of the original Dark Forces (I find it a lot more enjoyable than JK1). I'd be glad to be of assistance if I can, I have some coding experience and when the SDK is released (and if it's not too beyond my programming skills) I'd love to do the required coding for the mod.

 

-Remi

[Reb Starblazer]

While I can't actually help this mod I would just like to tell you Demyse, that Starunner is making a Dark Forces Kyle Katarn skin for mulitplayer and it is looking very good. There's a post about it in this forum, just in case you missed it. Go take a look, you won't be dissapointed. He said it should be released soon. Also, the pictures may not work, so just be patient.

 

I can't link it, but the thread is called "New Skin: Dark Forces Kyle"

[Zx2]

Yup, DF is fun

 

would be glad to code once i get my hands on the SDK (prays it comes out 2morrow )

 

 

however: changing the levels=bad idea

 

the levels kicked ass as they were, if it were easier to use mouselook in DF i would be playin that right now instead of posting here

 

 

neway, give me an email if we decide to develop this:

flux92@hotmail.com

[Crack 6K]

I loved DF!!! I played it soooo much back then, while everyone else was playing doom. I'm not an experienced editor, or even made any maps in Radiant. However I have created impressive maps for other engines like Unreal and Max Payne. If things go well, please e-mail me at jc6k@adelphia.net, and I'll see what I can do to help.

[Tzar Sectus]

Whoops, forgot to add my email addy. Mail me at remi@strategyplanet.com if the project gets a green light.

 

-Remi

[Pear]

Originally posted by Demyse

Oh, and Wes, about the budding Jedi powers, I doubt it. You've got to remember this is the Rebel Alliance's super commando! He survived being on the Executor, took out a Type 3 Dark Trooper, and just simply kicks ass. Period.

 

In the Dark Forces trilogy of graphic novels it alludes to Kyle having slight force abilities as far back as his days as an academy student and stormtrooper. He can "see" danger before it comes at some points, etc.

[Wes Janson SMR]

Wow. I didn't even catch Demyse's comment before.

 

As Pear already pointed out, my theory proves sound. But you need to think about it. Kyle couldn't have been without some type of superhuman aid. I don't doubt the man's skills, but no one [normal] man should be able to infiltrate Imperial bases and take out piles of Stormtroopers and Dark Troopers like Kyle did. By all rights, he should have died on his mission to get the Death Star plans.

 

If the Empire was so grossly incompitent, that a single "normal" soldier could cause so much damage, then the Rebel Alliance shouldn't have had any worry.

 

Kyle kicks ass because he trained with his superhuman abilities, way before he knew of his Force-laiden heritige. If Kyle could see danger before they happen, attain split-nanosecond reflex, and execute perfect marksmanship; then yes, this bad boy could do what he did in the first game.

 

If DF is to be remade using JK2's engine, we should exploit what we know about Kyle, now. We don't need to assign him hardcore "Force Powers" that we know of in JK1 and JK2. We give him inhearant "abilities", such as Blaster Dodge (similar to the disrupter dodging in JK2), optional Extreme Marksman Lock-On, Max Payne-style Bullet Time (not quite like Force Speed), the Gut Feeling (detecting iminent danger), and varios acrobatic abilities not unlike what Kyle can do in JK2.

 

We could use new game mechanics geared towards more towards stealth. Stealth makes more sense for survival than an all-out gun fest (the latter working for the majority of us). Wall-hugging, tip-toeing, GPS radar (or Star Wars equivolet), smoke bombs, etc.

 

And a rope harness. This is one thing I'd like to personally mod into JK2. You think a sane person would do platform-jumping without protection? You can stick the pike on any surface, rappel down from high places, or use it as a bungee "net" to pull you back up if you miss a jump.

 

And to steal an idea from Iniana Jones, bring back the automap WITH the ability to mark areas you've previously been to (with chalk, blood(j/k), or something).

 

These are just loose ideas. Whatever you dudes want to do.

 

Thanks for the official word on that Jedi thing, Pear.

[Crack 6K]

I believe that a great DF mod is really necessary to complete Kyle's character. Besides the DF books, Dark Forces didn't have much in a good flowing storyline. It was excellent for it's time, but most people have no idea what happened to Kyle before Jedi Knight.

[The_One]

It seems to me we pretty much have a whole team here ready to help

 

No where is Demyse? We need to know what LEC think, and we also need to decide what to do if LEC don't give the green light - do we give up or do something similar?

 

Anyway, Demyse, where are you?

[Tzar Sectus]

I disagree that Kyle used some sort of force powers already in Dark Forces. Doesn't Kyle Katarn fight with a great deal of enemies alone in the first levels of JO as well? And in that case we *know* he doesn't use any type of force since he's steered away from that path.

 

And if he was given some kind of force powers in Dark Forces it would create big plot holes. Why has he no force powers at the beginning of JK1?

 

And the last reason is to make it true to Dark Forces, where it is proven he has nothing to do with the force. So I'd go with Demyse explanation, he's just a badass super commando =D

 

Actually, there's another solution to this problem, and that's to decrease the amount of enemies. JO's engine is not at all designed to draw 50 enemies onscreen at once, and it's balanced for "small" fights (one against a dozen). So giving the Dark Forces remake less enemies would perhaps be necessary to make it playable.

 

-Remi

[Demyse]

Howdy all, sorry, I was out of town. Anyhow, I still haven't sent the e-mail to LEC, I'm trying to figure out the best way to ask (I'd prefer a yes rather than a no:D ).

 

I'm glad to see I'd get help with this project, I was afraid I might have to do it alone. If I get an OK on the project from LEC, I'll contact all of you.

 

As for the force powers, if any are included, I'd prefer all of them to be passive. Perhaps we could have an accuracy force power or reaction time (which instead of actually increasing the players reaction time, which is impossible, decreases the AIs reaction time by ms). I saw Wes mention bullet-time. I've got to say a straight off no to that. While it was cool in Max Payne, I feel it has absolutly no place in Dark Forces. It got old quick in Max Payne, drove 3 of my friends to the point where they just stopped playing the game completely. The automap might be able to be done. Quake III can be pretty limited in that way, if the team gets a good coder, we could probably do it, but even then it could be quite a stretch.

 

One objective of this mod, if it does get a yes, will be to make it playable on most computers. I know that a ton of people have not played DF, many don't even know it exhists, so I'd like to see as many people as possible playing it.

 

Ok, I'm going to go back to figuring out a good draft for the e-mail. One more thing, anybody know where I should send this thing? I'd rather not send it to the wrong e-mail.

[Desslock]

Your best bet is just run through the original Dark Forces and map the levels out and redo them. A direct port of the level files is just simply not compatible without some major scars in either side.

 

Oh, and fix the damn projectile speeds!

[Demyse]

There is nothing wrong with the projectile speeds, they're moving at about the same speed as the movies were.

 

I've already got the levels pretty much mapped out for me via the strategy guide. But thanks for the suggestion.

[Wes Janson SMR]

I'm not talking about full-fledged Jedi abilities here. All Force-sensitive beings tap into its influence, whether they know it or not. It's just lik Anakin and Luke in the movies. They never even considered having Force powers, but their passive use of it gives them superhuman traits - like Anakin being the only human able to drive a pod.

 

Even in the EU series, "Jedi candidates" exercised their promise by doing something extraordinary - and they had no idea they could do it. They just did, and were amaized to learn that no one else could - they had Force powers.

 

Bullet Time isn't for everyone - but it is in JK2.

 

I can't buy that Kyle's simply a super badass. He steals the Death Star plans (supposedly under stringent security), rescues Maidene from a heavily guarded Imperial base, wrestles a Kell Dragon barehanded, takes out Dark Troopers like they were manufactured garbage, and shows Boba Fett what's what.

 

Boba Fett. I mean, come on! He almost had Luke as his next bounty when he lucked out and was clobbered by a blind smuggler.

 

Kyle had two things for him during the course of Dark Forces. He was very lucky, and he had the Force on his side. There's no way he could have gotten through all those troops alone, with just a blaster and weak shield generator (which he seems to be the sole posessor of).

 

I mean, Han, Leia, Lando and Chewie would never imbark on anything as fool-hardy. At least, not alone. And Luke, Mara. and all the other Jedi out there might be able to handle it, but still don't.

 

I firmly believe that Kyle tapped into a souce that allowed him to do what he did. And if you're complaining about the lack of Force in JK1, then mod it in. And what sense would it make for the Epire to loosen security for the Death Star plans? If anything, the first level should have been wall-to-wall troops - complete with a password-laidened computer to access the security room.

 

The novelization said he had passive powers. The game should reflect the same deal now that we all know better.

 

And quite frankly, playing through an identical Dark Forces port would be quite boaring. It's esentailly key-hunting and platform-hopping.

 

If you're willing to change it by moving it to the JK2 engine, you might as well make it better, AND change some of the game mechanics to make it more interesting. Passive Force powers would explain his ability to do all the things he can do, and make the game that much more interesting. Bullet Time and all.