what is with you guys thinking you are some type of badass jedi because you can use

[Hiteche5]

I'm a saberist and I think that some of you other saberists are whining just a little. I personally find that my force powers can negate almost anything except Alt-fire on the repeater. Alot of complaint is that gunners can use force powers too but I find that gunners generally don't use them that much becuase jumping 50 feet in the air tends to throw off their aim. When I see a gunner jump like that I tend to push them or pulll them and then it's game over. Dark jedis tend to max out grip and drain and they can't effectively counter gunners because of that. That is your problem just because grip is cool looking and you can throw them off a ledge doesn't mean you use it exclusively. There is almost always a way to counter something in this game if you allocate your force points corectly.

[Spider AL]

Yes, there's always a counter... and a class system would restrict those players that want to sometimes use guns, and sometimes use a sabre, like myself. It's also really irrelevant when you consider that a rather skilled player... will win. Whether he chooses one class or another, he'll win. And when he wins, those who didn't win will get a little peed off. And when they get peed off, they will rant at the winner, and (if they are of a different class to the winner) They will rant about how imbalanced the game is.

 

Frankly, it's almost impossible to make a game perfectly balanced. There will always be SOME way of giving yourself an edge, whether it be a gun, a force power, a special move like kicking, a specific sabre move, whatever.

 

The following kind of thing has been said before, by OOO, Hiteche and River among others... but:

 

I, personally, think that people should channel their angst into mod-making, rather than expecting every weapon in the game to be equal. If every weapon in the game were equal, what would be the point of having different weapons? Just because they look different? Because they make different noises? Since the days of the early player v player games, there have been weapons more desirable than others.

 

As for the lightsabre being equal to guns, I personally think that it is. It does serious damage, it can be used at different speeds and in different ways... But you have to be experienced enough to get CLOSE, in order that it be effective. Throwing it is fine, but it leaves you defenceless.

 

Now, a lot of players scream at me for shooting them... but, often enough, I've given them plenty of time to change weapons by standing still in front of them. Once I'm sure they wish to use their sabre against me, I attack...

 

But, most of the time they don't even use a single force power. Not one. Nor a single special sabre move. Nor a single evasive maneuver. They just run straight at me with the weedy fast style on, hacking away. Now, I shoot them. They die. Then they accuse me of being dishonourable, before calling me every dirty name under the sun...

 

And why don't I duel them you may ask? Well for a start, I don't get all chummy with people who insult me. Secondly, I'm usually competing with at least one other player who wants to win. If I waste precious seconds duelling with everyone who asks (And there's always quite a few when you're leading) I'd spend ALL my time in the game duelling. Perhaps, if I'm lucky, a kill every forty seconds. Meanwhile, my rivals are running around killing at least four or five people a minute. Duelling takes time that I can't afford.

 

And do I use the sabre? Yes I use the sabre. All the time. I use it when I'm in close quarters and can't use an explosive weapon effectively, I use it when there's an opponent I know I can kill quickly with the sabre, and I use it when I don't have a big gun. When I use the sabre, I use it with commitment. I switch styles according to situation, I use my force powers to defeat my opponent too. When confronted by a gunner, I pull their weapon away. I push them over. I kick them. I roll around them. I do my damnedest to survive, and kill them in the process of surviving.

 

What concerns me is that people of the type I described above, people who can't even be bothered to try to force pull my gun, people who can't even be bothered to jump about, or use Force Speed, or roll even, are massing together and talking about depriving people who use guns, of their Force Powers.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying everyone who's talking about a class-system is skilless, I know that a lot of roleplayers have extensive playing ability too, and just want to make the game more Star-Warsy. What I'm trying to convey is that a lot of players enjoy using the Force, enjoy using their sabres, and enjoy using guns. All together. And if a player doesn't have ability, he will not win the game. So instead of changing the game, (And not changing who wins, because those with commitment will still win) why not practice a little more? Why not... learn where every powerup is on a level? Why not... use a weapon appropriate to a situation, rather than using the same weapon all the time? That's what players who win regularly, have had to do to gain their skills. Or, if you don't want to spend that much time becoming skilled at the game, why not create a class-system mod to use along with the game?

 

Hmm, on a side note I'm not sure people realise how rewarding becoming "good" at a game can be. As long as you keep your feet on the ground, you won't get arrogant, you won't get bitter or vain, and you'll have a heck of a time discovering new and interesting ways to win.

 

Finally it's been said before, but when you ask people who complain that sabres aren't strong enough to defeat gunners, "why don't you play on sabres only servers?" they tend to say something like "well I can't get one with a good ping." What these people are forgetting is that it's barely past two weeks since the game was released. Be patient! More servers (and ways of finding them) spring up every day. A little perseverance in locating a server to suit you helps too.

[StormHammer]

I usually can't get a good ping wherever I play. I'm lucky if I don't see a Connection Interrupted message every game...or see the dreaded 999 Ping...

 

It seems to be getting more frequent too...

 

Oh well...yeah...another valid argument.

[RabidPlatypus]

I'd just like to respond to people saying saberists should be able to take out gunners easily. I"m a saberist though, just using a bit of logic.

 

Ok first of all, in none of the movies do we see a skilled gunner vs. a skilled saberist. Its all stormtroopers etc, nothing special. We do, in ROTJ see boba fett. He of course, is knocked inot the pit from a lucky shot from a blind man. Before he was knocked into the pitt, he was doing a pretty good job messing up luke with different uses of weapons. What would the point be of having a Jango Fett vs. Obi Wan fight if it was one sided? So we do not know how effective jedis are against gunners even though they seem like it against stormtroopers. If you want to be a jedi master instantly, you have to go against veteran armsman instantly. It seems like some of you guys came straight from single player and are pissed that you can't deflect every shot, dodge every missile, and kill everything in one hit.

[avenger_au]

I usually play as a light sabreist - and I'm a big fan of the run away policy when it comes to being attacked by stuff like the flechette / repeater secondary fire. I look at the blocking ability of the light sabre not as an offensive tool, but something that will help me get out of there .

 

That said, when it comes down to attacking gun wielders, I try to neutralise the threat as soon as possible, which means getting up close and force pulling the weapon. This is by far my favourite means of attack. One thing I miss however (from JK 1) is the panic for the gun wielder once the weapon is pulled - I often pull a weapon only to have it autoswitched ( do weapons autoswitch once pulled? - I've never had someone pull a weapon from me) to a much more deadly weapon - doh!. But generally speaking, getting up close and personal with a jedi is gonna be messy for a gun wielder. Sure I get killed by gunners, but I think there are sufficient methods for getting close to a gunner to take em out - regardless of the balance of the weapons. If all else fails I fall back to the run away tactic .

 

Howver, Dark jedi should be more balanced towards an offensive method for taking out gunners. I don't play as a dark - so I wouldn't know how easy this is...

 

So basically - in a 1-1 encounter with a gunner Jedi should hold their own, and be able to survive to see another day. When dealing with a gunnner attacking a pack of duelling sabreists I usually jump out of the sabre fight and deal with the gunner first - pulling the weapon, so that I can try to make sure that the only thing I get killed by is a sabre. If there are several gunners attacking a single jedi you're pretty much screwed ( except for the run away tactic) - light sabre or not.

 

So basically - do the guns need balancing? I don't think so - but I don't play very competitively. I would hope that any changes made to guns still make it possible to win using guns and little training. However, I'd still like to see the reward for lots of effort put into sabre practice, where a gunner will be scared (even a little bit) of a Jedi running into a room. It'll be a sad day if I can't find anyone to pull weapons out of their hands because all the gun users feel the sabre is too powerful.

[BoyInAWhelchair]

Originally posted by Solo4114

1.) they want to play a cool FPS, 2.) they're die-hard Star Wars fans who want to be able to play like Jedi Knights online. They install the game, fire up MP, and join in a battle. On the one side, you've got the guy who wants to play to win. Nothing wrong with that. I like winning too. You've also got the die-hard fan who wants to win, but wants to do it as a Jedi. These two meet in an FFA server. The guy who's playing to win fights a few sabre battles, then runs off after a while and grabs a gun. He runs back to where the sabre battles were, and finds four Jedi wannabes duking it out in the middle of the map. The gun user looks at the melee, looks down at the weapon of mass distruction in his hands, gets an evil grin on his face, and proceeds to vaporize all of the jedi. Suddenly, the guy playing to win realizes, hey, why bother with a sabre when you can use a gun?? He also realizes that he's wasted a lot of points on sabre skills when they could go to other force powers. He bumps all his neutral skills (Speed, push, pull, seeing) up to level three. The guy who plays to win starts doing so. Even in one-on-one fights against the jedi. He runs, shoots them with a repeater or flechette cannon, and when they manage to push the bolts back at him, he figures out that if he jumps and fires, they'll never hit him even if he doesn't hit them 100% of the time. Meanwhile, the sabre user becomes more and more frustrated. He decides to go play on a sabre only server. Except that sabre combat is so lackluster in this game, that he grows tired of it, and leaves. Meanwhile, the gun user is still using guns and force powers, but the game's getting old to him. Besides Q3, CS.....

 

I disagree.

 

I am a Q3 player and quite good(IMHO).

 

I do not play Jedi2 in FPS, I Play it in 3rd person no matter the weapon. You can see more and use the acrobatics to your advantange.

 

The logic is not as you lay it out. To appreciate the game you must accept it as unique. Those factions you describe in your diatribe are nothing more than some people not accepting the game for what it is, but wanting to change the game to what they want. We all know this behaviour; childish and non-adaptive.

 

The game will sell well and survive regardless of your flawed logic;It is not the game that needs changing but the attitudes of those that project their self esteem on to the game.

 

 

A boy In A Wheelchair

[Captain Anarchy]

I use a saber ALMOST exclusivly, I also use Thermal's, Sniper Laser Rifle, and Heavy Repeater aswell. And I don't ***** about weapons being in the game. I mean, seriously, the creators saw it fit that they put those weapons in the game, and they are by no means lame.

[Sartis]

Ok the guns vs saber debate is so dead its not even funny anymore, Guns kills more than sabers, the saberists are mad and want balance, the gunners say get more skill you noob. Fact of the matter is if that email from Ravensoft was true they are looking at balancing guns vs sabers, whether that means no force powers while holding a gun or lower movement rate who knows. Thing is ravensoft will do what they do, both sides won;'t see th perspective of the other so why don't we drop it? we aren't really accomplishing anything other than dragging out the same discussion.

 

All I can say is if you like being a gunner now, might as well have as much fun as you can before the patch, because from that email looks like they are seriously considering movement changes, and force power reductions. And god knows what else.

[Kurgan]

what is with you guys thinking you are some type of badass jedi because you can use

lightsabers in deathmatch? I've never seen such egoism in a game before. I mean christ you people take it personally beacuse other people use guns and not sabers exclusively, or if you dont use sabers exclusively you're not as good or as much of a "fan" gimmie a break.

 

I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment.. I don't see why anyone should act superior just because they choose to play the game this way while others around them don't, but then I've encountered this type of attitude more on the forums than in the game (so far), so perhaps it isn't as widespread, or I've just been lucky.

 

Whiners and people who spend more time bragging than playing ruin the atmosphere of any game... best to ignore them, and hopefully they'll move on.

 

It seems like some of you guys came straight from single player and are pissed that you can't deflect every shot, dodge every missile, and kill everything in one hit.

And I agree.

 

I don't think that making the saber the most powerful weapon in Multiplayer is "balanced" in any sense of the word, and we've heard that whole song and dance already in a few other threads.

; p

 

Those are some good lists there Stormhammer, but I have a couple of things to add:

 

It cannot deflect...

 

1. Disruptor (primary/secondary) - this weapon is not very useful anyway against moving opponents unless you are a dead shot.

...

3. DEMP 2 (primary/secondary) - this gun is next to useless against all players anyway, unless you consistently use secondary to hit directly under your opponent so they get caught in the damage field.

 

It is quite possible to block Disruptor shots with the saber, I've done it. Whilst practicing with a friend of mine, he targetted first my saber, then my head with the disruptor, while I was standing perfectly still, with saber out, and every shot was blocked (it doesn't bounce off of course, just hits the saber and stops). You can also of course use level 3 seeing to "dodge" it, but I haven't tried it myself yet. I wondered about the DEMP2, and frankly I can often get kills on unsuspecting people in for example the Deathstar level. The blast radius of secondary is quite large.

[toolboi]

Bah! None of the guns are over powered, the trick is to know what to use against the people using each. For example you DO NOT go up against a repeater with a lightsaber

 

Actually, I have to admit that the repeater is a bit over powered in that at long range it is DEADLY and it has the granade effect. It should be easy to take out with, say, a blaster (actually Ive killeda few repeater freaks with a blaster, headshots are your friend). The sniper rifle works well too.

[ChrisTheS]

I fully intend to learn how to go into a unlimited guns server and kick arse using only the lightsaber... if it means running away from a fight sometimes, then so be it, but I don't believe anyone has a right to claim the mantle of Jedi until they can effectively get by with the saber and ONLY the saber (which is not to say that I think everyone should use sabers only... just that I intend to do so, and I think I can get away with it).

[lukeboy]

Originally posted by Solo4114

 

And this is why this game will die shortly unless something is done to fix it. Follow out this scenario to its logical conclusion. People buy JO for two distinct reasons: 1.) they want to play a cool FPS, 2.) they're die-hard Star Wars fans who want to be able to play like Jedi Knights online. They install the game, fire up MP, and join in a battle. On the one side, you've got the guy who wants to play to win. Nothing wrong with that. I like winning too. You've also got the die-hard fan who wants to win, but wants to do it as a Jedi. These two meet in an FFA server. The guy who's playing to win fights a few sabre battles, then runs off after a while and grabs a gun. He runs back to where the sabre battles were, and finds four Jedi wannabes duking it out in the middle of the map. The gun user looks at the melee, looks down at the weapon of mass distruction in his hands, gets an evil grin on his face, and proceeds to vaporize all of the jedi. Suddenly, the guy playing to win realizes, hey, why bother with a sabre when you can use a gun?? He also realizes that he's wasted a lot of points on sabre skills when they could go to other force powers. He bumps all his neutral skills (Speed, push, pull, seeing) up to level three. The guy who plays to win starts doing so. Even in one-on-one fights against the jedi. He runs, shoots them with a repeater or flechette cannon, and when they manage to push the bolts back at him, he figures out that if he jumps and fires, they'll never hit him even if he doesn't hit them 100% of the time. Meanwhile, the sabre user becomes more and more frustrated. He decides to go play on a sabre only server. Except that sabre combat is so lackluster in this game, that he grows tired of it, and leaves. Meanwhile, the gun user is still using guns and force powers, but the game's getting old to him. Besides Q3, CS, and a whole host of other games did it better and were more interesting to play. For him, the game ends up being just another gun game that isn't terribly distinguished from the other games. Now where do you think the game goes from here? The gun user gets bored with the game and moves on to another game with cooler, newer guns. The sabre user is bored with sabre combat in the game, and goes back to summoning groups of enemies and allies to play on SP maps. And the multiplayer aspect of this game that we had such high hopes for dwindles and dies. Folks just stop playing. Raven figures this out and doesn't put as much energy into supporting the game because they've got other projects to work on that will reach a larger audience.

 

THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THIS GAME UNLESS IT IS PATCHED OR MODDED. Mark my words. [/b]

 

Good point, I just want to mention it , most gun***** prefer playing JO,just becuz they are not skilled enough to play RCTW or Q3.Kill a guy with melee weapon is easier than kill a quaker .

 

Most saberist insists playing saber around even if there are a bunch of gun towards them , just because they want to be a jedi but doesn't notice there is a unbalance exist in game.

[Etherael]

Originally posted by Joruus

Yeah I have to agree here.

 

I play CTF pretty much exclusively and the nutballs running at me with their sabers and their force powers really need to get a clue.

 

I understand its a Star Wars based game, but really, theres not gonna be ANY Jedi in JKO MP that can pull off attacking a gunner with his saber and his force powers unless the gunner is just wholly and totally incompetant.

 

 

I take exception to that comment, I go into guns servers occasionally, but I never ask people to stop using guns, that's why I went there, I feel like taking out a bit of wrath on some gun weenies. The thing about gunning in jedi outcast is this, it doesn't work, there's nothing about it that you shouldn't do, by all means, alt fire repeater go with your homing rockets, do whatever you like.

 

Just don't be surprised when people dodge your disruptor shots, deflect your splash damage weapons, and leave your field of view entirely to appear moments before your death courtesy of a heavy jumping slash.

 

That's the only thing that annoys me about gun users, you people are hypocrites! you constantly rag on saber wielding newbies that don't know how to counteract ranged weapons for being lame, and yet when you're outclassed by saber wielders, scream unfair.

 

Note that's not an individual insult, I don't know you, but more often than not when I hand the ass of a gun user to them, they cry foul play.

 

Cheers

Etherael

[SpaceMonkey1315]

what takes more skill? Killing someone in less than 5 seconds with the E-11 blaster rifle.....or spinning in circles continually until you hit someone?

 

how can you say that...if the people your playing dont suck completely they will get away from the person spinning in random circles and attack them in a fairly smart person manner...as opposed to anybody i see who bothers to use the blaster rifle and shoots randomly with secondary fire into big lightsaber battles looking for cheap kills. plus, if using the blaster rifle is so much better than the lightsaber, then why would they have the lightsaber at all...could they just add a laser gun to quake 3, call it quake 4, and make you happy with it?

[EVA01]

IMHO Id like to see some weapons beeing weakened a bit. A sabre-swinging ultra l337 dark-jedi badass does not have the slightest chance against me or any1 elese who is equipped with a rocket launcher.

 

But I dont moan about people who are using the rocket launcher, I just search for a game with sabres only...

 

For people who prefer firearm-action JK is _definitely_ the wrong game...

[IBFunn]

People play to win. Use the weapon that is best for that given scenario. As the old saying goes "you don't bring a knife to a gun fight."

[Dago]

I didn't take the time to read all the posts but all I have to say is people B!TCH about guns(me too) becuase maybe......THERE ARE 1345345664363466467650000000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!F@%ING GAMES OUT THERE WITH GUNS!!!!!! AND IT IS STAR WARS AND STAR WARS IS SO F@#ING BIG BECUASE OF THE F@#$ING LIGHTSABER!!! SO IF U WANNA USE A GUN GO BUY UNREAL!!! AND LEAVE STAR WARS ALONE!!!

[Threetall]

In CTF the weapons are balanced very well. Two sabers at the flag is a hardy defense because the snatcher must get in close. Add a skilled weapon toting forward defender and you have quite the obstacle.

I am primarily weapons on CTF but when running back with the flag I use saber for deflect and force speed, and I usually make it back

I see great balance in CTF if everyone knows what they are doing. A little teamwork and strategy go a long way. Zerg rushes usually fail.

[Threetall]

Originally posted by Dago

I didn't take the time to read all the posts but all I have to say is people B!TCH about guns(me too) becuase maybe......THERE ARE 1345345664363466467650000000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!F@%ING GAMES OUT THERE WITH GUNS!!!!!! AND IT IS STAR WARS AND STAR WARS IS SO F@#ING BIG BECUASE OF THE F@#$ING LIGHTSABER!!! SO IF U WANNA USE A GUN GO BUY UNREAL!!! AND LEAVE STAR WARS ALONE!!!

 

Did you get JK2 for your 12th birthday?

[Dago]

Ok... you think I'm wrong? There are so many FPS out there its not even funny, and if u got JK2 for the guns your a Fuc](ing moron. plus sorry to say the guns in JK2 are lame, and you can tell they put little thought into them. If you wanna use guns try Counter-Strike, its 2 or 3 years old and it still has better gun fights then any game out there.

[Jedi_Overlord]

For those of you who don't use guns, or don't want others to use guns, make a saber only server. For you gun people who complain about the force, make a no force server. Anyone still complaining, try playing the game instead of whining, and your skills may improve.

[Threetall]

Originally posted by Dago

Ok... you think I'm wrong? There are so many FPS out there its not even funny, and if u got JK2 for the guns your a Fuc](ing moron. plus sorry to say the guns in JK2 are lame, and you can tell they put little thought into them. If you wanna use guns try Counter-Strike, its 2 or 3 years old and it still has better gun fights then any game out there.

 

Wrong or right, I was responding to your little tantrum.

 

 

Originally posted by Jedi_Overlord

For those of you who don't use guns, or don't want others to use guns, make a saber only server. For you gun people who complain about the force, make a no force server. Anyone still complaining, try playing the game instead of whining, and your skills may improve.

 

Sound advice.

[Dago]

This is why I don't like people who use guns. they go to a store and they must know all there going to do is use a gun in the game, so there are 2 new games out Global Ops and JK2. JK2 has 12 weapons, Global Ops has about 30+. JK2 is not really a upper gun based game, and Global Ops is... why did u pick JK2??? Its not becuase of the lightsaber or u would using it so why did u pick a game with less Weapons...???

I got JK2 for the force powers and lightsaber, to get away from those massive gun games for a bit. The only time I used the guns were in single player, until I got my lightsaber. and those first few levels were lame. But once I had my lightsaber and force powers I had a blast. So anyone please post and tell me why you picked JK2 over Global Ops if you knew you would only be using a gun?

[nickm1981]

I fail to see what the problem is here. You have said that if a player with a gun goes against a player with a saber the player with the gun will win. I have to disagree. You can block most gun shots with your saber. You can push back all the missiles. Completely useless weapon if you ask me. You can jump a lost of the heavy repeater fire and then force grip him or lightening. I think the balance is just right. I have no problems with people using weapons against me, it adds to the fun when you kill them with there own weapon fire :-) This is just my opinion before any one gets the hump!

[Bronzefist]

Hmm,

 

Have you guys ever considered the saber as being just another weapon? It seems llike people are hell-bent on using the saber only...

 

Just consider it as another wepon at your disposal. I dont see any topics saying that the E11 is unbalanced vs the Repeater. Why arent we complaining about imbalances btw the guns? That Bryar pistol seems awfully weak!

 

Peace,

Bronze