22_InFeRnO_22 Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 I dont think the Quake III engine was the best choice for a Star Wars game. Not graphics-wise... Hell they rock ! Now, dont get me wrong, i love this game. I havent stopped playing it since day 1. I havent played any other games since JO was released, except for the occasional Warcraft III game. Back to my point........ This is more for the multiplayer aspect. Quake III was made for an action packed arena, where you mostly die, repsawn,die respawn,die, etc... Jk II is pretty much like this also. Which is sad in a way, because so much more could have been done for the Multiplayer side. The Teamplay side could have been exploited more, like objectives and stuff, with bigger maps and stuff. Too much focus on FFA, which in my mind, doesnt belong in the Star Wars universe.... Just imagine.. Day of Defeat style, ut in the Star Wars universe, NOW THATS A GAME ! But still, i just cant stop playing JK, and this is by no means a rant, just a remark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hell Raiser Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Have you tried playing on Duel Servers? Totally, not yer typical Q3 experiance. Try comparing InstaGib with Duel Servers, and I'll... I'll..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPY_jmr1 Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 agreed. i myself liked rtcw mp. the part of it where dieing MENT somthing, instead of diediedie respoun etc etc etc..... but this is what mods are for...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 The engine has NOTHING to do with the multiplayer modes. Just because it's on the Q3 engine doesn't mean that it's gonna be like Q3. Take a look at SoF 2, that isn't gonna play at all like Q3. The style of gameplay in MP was Raven's choice. I find it strange why you don't seem to think JK was the same way. In JK, the weapons were terribly unbalanced, especially saber vs guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22_InFeRnO_22 Posted April 14, 2002 Author Share Posted April 14, 2002 Well the eingine Has to have something to do with it.... Look at Medal of Honors..... what a mess. Total frag-fast ala Quake III, doubt the Nazis ran arou d with 7 Bazookas per squad, spamming grenades and jumping around. JK2 though, really masters the MP version of Quake III engine, with the Duel option, if you dont like frag-fests, get a friend and press K to duel, now that was ****ing smart !!! CTF is pretty cool too. But eam FFA, and FFA with lots of people with guns are just lame. I tend to stick to 8 people FFA saber only servers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughJ Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 the fact that it's on the Q3 engine has nothing to do with how the multiplayer gameplay is... cept maybe physics-related issues... but the spawn rates, FFA qualities, etc are really all implemented on their own design.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Originally posted by hughJ the fact that it's on the Q3 engine has nothing to do with how the multiplayer gameplay is... cept maybe physics-related issues... but the spawn rates, FFA qualities, etc are really all implemented on their own design.. You are correct, sir. Take Unreal 2 for example, we all know that's going to have fast paced DM MP, but take Rainbow Six: Raven's Shield, which is also on the Unreal 2 engine. A Rainbow Six game that plays like Unreal 2? I think not. The engine has NOTHING to do with how the game actually plays. The engine has to do with graphics, physics, netcode, etc. It has nothing to do with how the game is designed to operate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22_InFeRnO_22 Posted April 14, 2002 Author Share Posted April 14, 2002 Um, well........... Sorry for my mistake. Cuz i just find that all the games based on the Q3 engine have the same type of Multiplayer play... But if it has nothing to do with it, then well, i dunno what to say. Mabye thats the new trend now... Going for frag-fest oriented games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 It's not the engine, it's just the trend. People like that style of gameplay, and seeing as it's already in the engine, they leave it there. Just wait for SoF2, I bet it won't be at all like Q3! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninkendo84 Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 well, actually... jk2 is similar to q3 in multiplayer because lucasarts/raven didn't change much of the raw code of the q3 engine. (keep in mind a game engine doesn't include graphics, weapons, models, or anything like that) They could have, but the didn't, all they added was a duel challenge system and some new cvars and other stuff that only programmers will understand. That's because quake 3 was such a successful game and is basically the perfect prefabricated structure for a good multiplayer experience. When you look into it, jk3 multiplayer is just a really fancy quake 3 mod with force powers and different models and levels. Even the bot intelligence is pretty much the same as quake 3. The truth is, it is actually kind of hard to tell weather a game is using the same engine as another game. The "engine" doesn't determine how a game looks or feels, it runs deeper than that. A company can also completely butcher and change it in any way they want to... they licenced the engine, why not? I hear *Doom 3*, even with it's new lighting system and amazing graphics, is still going to use the quake 3 engine. So i agree, the quake 3 engine doesn't translate into the star wars universe very successfully, the game could have benefitted more from a new engine that was made specifically for the purpose of starwars style combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 No, Doom 3 is on the Doom 3 engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughJ Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 the extra 10-12 months it would have added to the development time to make a brand new engine for the game, could just have easily been added to the development time in making JK2 a better game in itself... most of its flaws really have to do with shallow gameplay, and little thought going into level planning of single player.. which is really nothing more than poor game design, rather than carry-overs from the engine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moleculor Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 You just have to be a good admin and kick all the Deathmatchers. *evil grin* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niten Ryu Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Unfortunately we can only blame lazy Devs for same type of MP games. It's much easier to copy than develop something new. I'm not saying that JK2 MP is all failure... no way, since lightsabre fights and duels are fun and feel fresh. Well, other MP modes are just same ol quake ripoff with not that good weapons. Star wars universe is full of really good sources for great MP action. Hoth battle (RtCW style), capture the ship (like in beginning of SW:ANH) or escape the rancors (RotJ) cave are just few ideas that invented while writing this post. Well, I'm sure that once SDK is released, we'll see some nice mods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
|HfH|Tsavong La Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 How is MOHAA a frag fest? Just because you dont have specific roles to fill, and have weapons that deal alot of damage does not mean it is a frag fest. My clan has spent many hours coming up with tactics that work, and work well. THIS game on the other hand.... I think if the ctf mode only let u have the neutral powers and ONE dark/light power it would rock It would mean classes...like medic, scout, warrior etc. As it is, I have seen plenty of teamwork, but I have also seen alot more lone rangers...even when playing with ppl in a clan. I would love to see a mod like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Brain Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 ****ing dolts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.B.M.C. Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 I think Multiplayer is fine. It's fun and has a lot of variation. As for an "Objective Based" SW Mutiplayer game, yes, that'd rock, but I don't want it "in stead of" what we have no, I want it "as well as" what we have now. Maybe a user mod and/or in the Expansion pack? BYE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creston Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Originally posted by Emon You are correct, sir. Take Unreal 2 for example, we all know that's going to have fast paced DM MP Sorry Emon, but Digital Extremes recently announced a few changes in the upcoming Unreal setup. Unreal TOURNAMENT 2 will feature (like the original Unreal Tournament) all the multiplayer stuff. Unreal 2, which has been renamed into, I believe, Unreal 2002, or Unreal Legends or something (for fear of confusing people with Unreal 2 / UT 2) is now going to be SINGLE PLAYER only. Unreal Warfare has now been pushed back to 2003 or so, and will be a true sequel to UT2, rather than an update (the update is UT2). Hope that makes sense. I think I read it on gamespot about two weeks or so ago, you could probably still find it in their archives As for the engine stuff, Jedi Knight at the time had it's own engine, and it looked like ass compared to Unreal and Quake2 that had just come out at the time. Also, Raven does NOT build their own engines, they never have. Saying the level design is bad because of the engine is just rubbish. The levels ARE very linear, but so are they in RTCW, and MOHAA and every other shooter out there. This is because, in general, FPS players don't like to have to figure out where to go I think JO looks splendid. As for MP, I do feel they did some good things with it, but there would have been a whole lot more possible. Here's hoping for the expansion pack (get coding Raven! ) Creston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninkendo84 Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Originally posted by Emon No, Doom 3 is on the Doom 3 engine. yep, thanks for pointing out my mistake, carmak had originally planned to use the quake 3 engine for the sake of easy programmability, but later changed his mind and built a new one from the ground up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyDiplo Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Originally posted by Emon You are correct, sir. Take Unreal 2 for example, we all know that's going to have fast paced DM MP, but take Rainbow Six: Raven's Shield, which is also on the Unreal 2 engine. A Rainbow Six game that plays like Unreal 2? I think not. Actually Unreal 2 won't have fast DM MP because MP has been dropped from Unreal 2 However, UT 2003 (the sequel to Unreal Tournament), which also uses the Unreal engine most certainly will Another good example would be comparing the current UT to Deus Ex, both of which use the same build of the engine, but are miles apart in gameplay. The engine has NOTHING to do with how the game actually plays. The engine has to do with graphics, physics, netcode, etc. It has nothing to do with how the game is designed to operate. You are certainly correct in that assertion, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pvt_Dancer Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 This is not a flame directed at you Inferno, just a general complaint... *ahem*... I am sick of people saying a game sucks because its ont he Q3 engine. WTF is wrong with the Q3 engine? I think it works fine and it looks good. People said RTCW was too much Q3... I didn't think so. I thought MP worked completely different and SP had its own feel. I just don't get it. The Q3 engine isn't really even out of date since there isn't a better one out there (some people will say that UT is but thats just preference). It just seems like the "in" thing to say... "Game is nice but its made with the Q3 engine. ":rolleyes: Anyway... I have no problems with JKO Sp or otherwise. None of the MP games I have played have been frag fests so I guess I really don't see that side of it. However, I do wish that teamplay modes were a little different. It would be more fun to have light side defend a place or have to protect a certain object from being captured by the opposing team... something like that. Objectives other than CTF... which is nice but everyone does it. Oh... and, ****ing dolts. Nice addition to the conversation Bad Brain. Well thought out and articulate. Now I see where you get the nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eternity Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 ****ing dolts. Eh, he just can't add to the conversation with an intelligent reply, so he decides to show the world he's stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desslock Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 The only reason the Q3A Engine was used is because its the best engine suited for first person shooters at the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raynaga Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Originally posted by Pvt_Dancer This is not a flame directed at you Inferno, just a general complaint... *ahem*... I am sick of people saying a game sucks because its ont he Q3 engine. WTF is wrong with the Q3 engine? I think it works fine and it looks good. People said RTCW was too much Q3... I didn't think so. I thought MP worked completely different and SP had its own feel. I just don't get it. The Q3 engine isn't really even out of date since there isn't a better one out there (some people will say that UT is but thats just preference). It just seems like the "in" thing to say... "Game is nice but its made with the Q3 engine. ":rolleyes: I do not like the QIII engine due to its online interface and performance. You cannot even re-ping a single server! Games since Half-Life have been able to do that for christ sake. And for some reason the UT engine always gives me better games in terms of lag performance. QIII you have a ping of 80 and it turns into a slideshow. UT you can have 150 and run just fine. QIII is very pretty but horrible concieved in every way EXCEPT the graphics themselves. --R-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executor32 Posted April 14, 2002 Share Posted April 14, 2002 Originally posted by ninkendo84 well, actually... jk2 is similar to q3 in multiplayer because lucasarts/raven didn't change much of the raw code of the q3 engine. (keep in mind a game engine doesn't include graphics, weapons, models, or anything like that) They could have, but the didn't, all they added was a duel challenge system and some new cvars and other stuff that only programmers will understand. That's because quake 3 was such a successful game and is basically the perfect prefabricated structure for a good multiplayer experience. When you look into it, jk3 multiplayer is just a really fancy quake 3 mod with force powers and different models and levels. Even the bot intelligence is pretty much the same as quake 3. The truth is, it is actually kind of hard to tell weather a game is using the same engine as another game. The "engine" doesn't determine how a game looks or feels, it runs deeper than that. A company can also completely butcher and change it in any way they want to... they licenced the engine, why not? I hear *Doom 3*, even with it's new lighting system and amazing graphics, is still going to use the quake 3 engine. So i agree, the quake 3 engine doesn't translate into the star wars universe very successfully, the game could have benefitted more from a new engine that was made specifically for the purpose of starwars style combat. Actually, there's nine times more new code than there is Q3 code. In the FAQ at the official JO site, they state that only 10% of the code is Q3 engine code, with the other 90% being totally new. This includes both the GHOUL2 rendering/damage system and the ICARUS scripting system, as well as a few other things. In other words, saying that JO is "just like Q3" or "basically a Q3 mod" is tremendously over-simplfying the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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