Strong Stance 1 hit kill rant!

[FWH Lasker]

Doesn't work that way Don. It takes many saber throw hits to kill a guy and only 1 hit in heavy stance. Plus, if the heavy stance user has healing, then you'll never ever kill him that way (from a duel point of view).

 

The author of this thread is correct. A heavy stance hit should not take 100% of your health. More and more all I'm seeing on the servers now are the demented bunny hoppers doing their leaping routine. What used to be an enjoyable battle where I walked away respecting my opponent now makes me walk away in disgust.

 

It's not the people who use the demented bunny hop of death I blame - it's poor game mechanics. Raven Software has to make some changes, or disgust will quickly drive many others away as well.

[BS - soundwave]

 

 

Now let me explain the exact problem with doing 100% damage, the problem springs from heal...

If you have two people playing, and they both have heal, and one is using red stance, barring some fluke of fortune or massive combo (which RARELY happens) the red stance player will win. Why? As each player heals whenever they get hit it takes a one hit kill move to kill either of them. The yellow or blue stance player can slash as much as they want only to have all their dammage negated by heal, and then be killed by some lucky or lagged shot from the red stance player.

This also happens with drain, but not to the same extent as you can usually only fully heal once with drain before you have to recharge.

Now if you took out one hit kills it would make the grounds even, the yellow player could heal as well and thus would have a chance. Further the prementioned lag wouldnt be a problem because it just means that youd have to do heal.

 

The only problem I see from my idea is that people would start using a heavy+lightning combo which would be VERY irritating, but it would still give you a chance as they would not then be able to heal. [/b]

 

 

Bingo, I dueled a guy who used hvy stance + heal and the only move he did was that strong attack. I could dodge it easily and must of hit him like 50 times every duel but he just healed and all he needed to do was tap my foot with his saber to win, grrrrr.

[Sword Breaker]

If you're playing on a full force server, it's extremely easy to counter those 1-hit-kill abusers.

 

If they use dark side, you should be able to just saber throw them to death... that or rush them with yellow saber.

 

If they use light side, it's a tad bit trickier... but it's still easy. The only catch is that you have to use light side. When the battle starts (after whatever formalities you might use), the first step is to just land one saber throw on them (easy to do). This should set their health to no shields so you can kill them with one heavy hit. Now just stand still and let them line up their heavy 1-hit-kill. As soon as you see them fly toward you, activate level 3 force protection and chop them with a heavy hit! Then laugh at their stupidity! I can't believe how many people use force protection like an idiot. The best way to use it is in a short burst to protect a single hit so you can do a trade-off for hits, except yours will actually hurt them.

 

The only drawback is that you need enough force to invest in this... so you might have to cut back on those other force powers you like on low force servers.

 

-Sword Breaker

[Flash25]

Originally posted by Krazen

Most of reds move take more 'skill' to use then other stances, because the moves are so slow to come out, and recover from.

 

You're correct, but only to an extent. The red stance requires a fair amount of skill to use successfully. Unfortunatly, the amount of skill required isn't great. Once you become competant in the red stance you are more powerful than an eqaully skilled player with the other two stances.

 

It takes a really good blue/yellow player to beat a good red stance player. It takes an expert blue/yellow to beat a really good red player. The power to skill ratio is grossly in favor of the red stance. Much of the disparity seems to be in the inherent power of the lightsaber. It appears that the lightsaber just hurts more because you hold it higher. If you use postion and good tactics, you can project power much greater than your skill.

[Shadow_Drone]

All these counters are all well and good, but what about on a nf duel server? I must have dodged that move for five minutes at a time against a lamer who kept using it repeatadly on a nf duel server. My luck would always run out and he would always land a hit. I could not attack because of the bugged hit detection. All other counters were null of course it being a no force server. THAT is why this needs to be addressed.

[Krazen]

Originally posted by Flash25

 

You're correct, but only to an extent. The red stance requires a fair amount of skill to use successfully. Unfortunatly, the amount of skill required isn't great. Once you become competant in the red stance you are more powerful than an eqaully skilled player with the other two stances.

 

It takes a really good blue/yellow player to beat a good red stance player. It takes an expert blue/yellow to beat a really good red player. The power to skill ratio is grossly in favor of the red stance. Much of the disparity seems to be in the inherent power of the lightsaber. It appears that the lightsaber just hurts more because you hold it higher. If you use postion and good tactics, you can project power much greater than your skill.

 

I try to play heavy red, but im forced to be good with yellow, and at least proficient with blue. Why? A heavy offensive yellow player vs a red player will (sans el cheapo move) win, as long as he presses them. The red's move doesnt come out fast enough to keep the barrage up, and the recover time leaves him open. There's only one move that doesnt obey that behavior is the insta-kill downward slice, and i think its already been established its broken as hell. The rest of red stance, however, is perfectly balanced(and to be honest, any player that relies on one stance strictly wont go far)

[Flash25]

Originally posted by Krazen

 

A heavy offensive yellow player vs a red player will (sans el cheapo move) win, as long as he presses them. The red's move doesnt come out fast enough to keep the barrage up, and the recover time leaves him open.

 

Not against a good red player. People who use the red stance well are able to not only use the initial swing, but the saber return as well. If you aim with the mouse as the saber returns to the ready position, you can still hit your opponent. This effectively threatens an area of at least 180 degrees. Couple that with the fact that you can back up almost as fast as you can run forward and you have the conditions that allow a player to consistently defeat opponents who are of a higher skill level than he has.

 

It isn't the stances in and of themselves that is unbalanced. It is the ancillary aspects of the game, like running, that combine with the stances that make them unbalanced. A good red player knows the point in his swing that he is threatened. With proper timing, he can swing, maneuver, and swing again before the opponent can rush in. Unless he uses the DFA, he is just as maneuverable as anybody else.

[OOO]

Well I've spent some quality time on the saber only FFA servers and have much the same gripe as many people on this board. I can use skill and get in five or six swings with my medium stance and get hit and killed in one shot by a guy in the heavy stance. A light side heavy stance user who knows how to make himself a hard target is an exceptionally tough opponent.

 

I've worked out several different tactics for dealing with heavy stance users that consist of pulls, kicks, flips, rolls, saber throws, wall runs, ect ect ect. The problem is that the heavy stance user doesn't need to use tactics, just get that one hit in while you are desperatly trying to chip him down and hoping not to get hit with some lag.

 

Why they made the game so that one stance does more damage then any other is beyond me. The different stances should only have changed your attack arcs, speed of attacks, defense ability, recovery time ect ect ect.

 

Having a stance that performs one hit kills will undoubtably make it the most popular. By then allowing this stance to have the longest reach you make it the most effective stance. Now give this stance an easy to perform finishing move that is unblockable and extremly effective in crowded team ffa matches and you've made the other two stances nearly obsolete.

 

I watched a guy earlier perform the DFA 4 times in a row in a saber only team FFA. It was so crowded and so chaotic that he scored himself four kills in a row...

 

Saber fights can be allot of fun...and stupid beyond belief all in the same match. It makes you think WTF!?

 

 

OOO

[SpaceRain]

Originally posted by Shadow_Drone

All these counters are all well and good, but what about on a nf duel server? I must have dodged that move for five minutes at a time against a lamer who kept using it repeatadly on a nf duel server. My luck would always run out and he would always land a hit. I could not attack because of the bugged hit detection. All other counters were null of course it being a no force server. THAT is why this needs to be addressed.

What's to comment? You got it all right. So many people just go: "Ah, just grip/push/kick/whatever the mother****er." without understanding that forces aren't necessarily turned on. (I personally don't like forces, because of the drain/grip combo, which we won't discuss here as there are 268 threads on this forum about drain/grip/heal.)

 

Originally posted by Krazen

Again, my problem with it is in no force saber servers. In ffa just pull out the repeater. However, it no excuse...the saber stances should be balanced all around

Exactly. Otherwise it'll be: "You wanna duel? Fine, just join my server. Oh, you're using strong stance? I'll have to turn on forces to counter, then.", which is, obviously, ridiculous.

 

I think most of us agrees that DFA needs two fixes:

 

1. The hit detection.

2. Longer recovery time where the player can't move so he actually gets to pay for his mistake if he misses instead of just backing away and trying again with minimal risk.

 

Luckily, I know for a fact that both issues will be addressed in the upcoming patch Raven Software is developing in cooperation with GetReal Studios.

 

No, I don't see a patch happening either, but Raven Software were rather good with patches for Soldier of Fortune, so let's give them the benefit of the doubt until we see Jedi Knight III, at which point we'll know for a fact we can stop dreaming, ok?

[Sartis]

There will be a patch, but will red stance be effected any by it who knows, Take a look at Heretic 2 they did alot to make that one hell of a game, I expect they will do the same for this since this has alot bigger audience.

[Teir]

I had 94-97 health left when i took a strong hit in my footh and i went facedown:D

I imagen the footh were cut off otherwise i laughed my ass off , hehe.