The Jedi of the Old Republic MOD (poll)

[Rajess MoDuron]

Allright folks, I promised it yesterday, but here it is, a quick synopsis of what you can expect in this mod. No justification for the changes, that'll be supplied later. Basically, know this: it is an attempt to make the duels more like the duels in the movies.

 

Some questions I asked myself in watching the duels in the movies were:

 

Why don't they use the force ALL THE TIME?

 

Answer: The effort taken to use the force against another force user isn't worth it if both combatants are of comperable abilities, in fact, when you have no massive advantage in ability, it costs you more than it earns. Use of the force is simply a way to express the power you COULD hold over the other person if you so chose. Examples of force use like this are Vader throwing the ROOM at Luke in ESB, Maul throwing the battledroid carcass to open the door in TPM, Dooku shocking Anakin in AotC, and Sidious shocking Luke in RotJ. Then there is the actual useful application of the force. Obi-Wan leaping several stories to catch up in the Duel of the Fates, Luke backflipping to avoid Vader every time he did it, Maul throwing Obi-Wan into the melting pit, etc...

 

This mod will do it's best to simulate this.

 

Why don't we see little nicks and cuts and stuff?

 

Okay, so this isn't going to apply as much when the next movie comes out, but the lightsaber is a weapon, a very powerful weapon, and unless you can gain something from the person surviving, be it pleasure or something to a higher purpose, every hit will be an attempt to kill or maim.

 

Therefore, every hit is a one hit kill.

 

"But wait man, the fights are gonna be soooo short!"

 

I said every HIT is a one hit kill.

 

The definition of Mana will be changed. It is now "Force Stamina". Imagine if you will, that the hits up to the final blow are not actually hits, but just strikes that the defender had to go extra far out of his/her way to block. What was a 'hit' before will not deduct life until there is NO force left to absorb the blow.

 

This does 2 things:

 

1. Better simulates the amount of force effort required to fight another force user with a lightsaber.

 

2. Makes people be more economical about their force use. If everytime you use the force it makes it more likely the next hit could kill you, are you going to use it as often? Especially since none of the powers will be very effective outright offensively? No. Force will be used as a tactical assistant, nothing more. Not as a way to kill your opponent. Except in certain cases, which I will get to later.

 

There WILL be 7 forms of lightsaber combat. Each with it's own strengths, weaknesses, and animations. Some forms will even have their own unique weapons (a doublebladed saber form for instance, a twin saber form, etc.)

 

The ones described and shown in the movies will be as they are in the movies. Those not shown will be decided through group meetings and/or community votes.

 

"But dude, what will the forms be differentiated by?"

 

Well, other than the animations, which would be enough for some people, they will be catagorized and ranked in 4 categories. The categories are:

 

Sweep: The distance the lightsaber covers in it's attacks. Anakin's form covers a lot of ground, Obi-Wan's is more close in. That sort of thing.

 

Speed: Not speed as we know it now, where the red form is slow, the medium form normal, and fast form...fast. It is instead more correctly the delay between attack mode and a defensive posture.

 

Strength: The amount of strength and power behind an attack. Since all hits will be you're hit you're dead, this instead will most effective in combos, as the more you beat someone down with a combo that has brute force, the more likely you are to get a good amount of stamina depleted by your attacks.

 

Concentration: Hey, for those of us who have actually participated in fencing in one form or another, you know that depending on what you are doing, you cannot concentrate as much on other things. With Jedi, this would make your outward use of the force not as effective. Some forms, therefore, which would be more concentration intensive, will have a penalty incurred before the force power is used, be it a higher cost or lower effectiveness.

 

 

"But wait dude, how do we get the forms?"

 

Okay, this is where you, the community come in. Right now my dream is to have it so that the statistics of the players is kept on a server. Points will be alloted in a few different categories, and may be GIVEN in two ways:

 

1: If the server has an admin with no life, the points may be given by the admin. So if someone lost a duel, but REALLY put up a good fight, they could get a point, especially if fighting someone of a higher level (this will be gotten to later)

 

2: Points will be given for kills, straight up.

 

Oh yeah, I hope to have this mod be run in a ladder type server system, with multiple duels going on at one time, or have it so that light siders cannot hurt lightsiders, but darksiders can hurt everyone. Just REALISTIC is the point of the mod.

 

The other point is to keep those annoying people away, the ones who kill people wanton and rampantly, the gunners who kill people trying to duel, etc.

 

I know, I know. "Go to a DUEL SERVER"

 

Well, the duel servers have a tendency to be laggy, and the wait is annoying, as well as the timeout bugs and stuff.

 

There will be NO guns in this mod...to begin with. They may be added later, but initally we want to establish a saber heavy community. I mean all of this is subject to change regarding what the community says, but hey, the point of the mod is JEDI and SITH, not bounty hunters or other scum.

 

So anyway, points can be redeemed for Force powers and saved up for new dueling styles. Points might be given into two separate tallies at the same time, one that is used for force powers, one that is used for styles. Whatever, but once you reach master level in one style, you cannot allocate points to any others. Something like that.

 

I'd also like to incorporate Dark Side points, so that you cannot really decide to be a light jedi and not behave like one. Anyway, this is all stuff to be hashed out later.

 

Anyway, that is all I want to reveal right now. Here is a basic rundown of what you may be able to expect:

 

Skin pack of Jedi and Sith from the movies, EU, and authors' imaginations.

 

Map pack of famous duel sites from the movies, EU, and authors' imaginations. Gameplay and authenticity will be on equal levels, therefore framerate could be more important that resolution of textures.

 

Saber styles with new animations. Saber styles will be chosen not IN GAME, but during setup or through a GUI like CounterStrike or Day of Defeat.

 

Other miscellanea.

 

Okay folks. Whaddya think?

[Elijah]

Exactly what NRG is Based on New Revoltions.

[nukage]

yeah that sounds a lot like what the movies were like i guess. The problem with having set force powers is the way you can anticipate what your enemy can do since there are only 15 or so force powers. but in the movies, the characters use the force to do whatever they can, and usually it is unexpected, like when luke does the mind trick noone is like "oh watch out he might do the mind trick." bad example but i cant think of any better other than the ones you already said. So maybe some force powers could activate only at certain times, much like the saber moves. Like a light or something could flash on the hud at a certain time and if you pressed a certain key like Use Force, you would execute that force move. It could be like using the force to throw debris at the enemy, throwing them off a ledge, etc. or maybe my idea sucks, i dont know.

[TheAlbaniac]

Overall a great idea... but:

 

I think seven saber stances is too much. Maybe you shouldn't call it seven stances.

Maybe double bladed and twin sabers should be something you choose with your character. Then you have five stances left, which IMO is still a lot. Unless you make them really different, some of them won't be used anyways.

Also, think of the amount of animations you have to create!

 

but as i said, It's a great idea. I think it's always good to make saber fights more realistic and more tactical!

[Rajess MoDuron]

Voting is SOOO encouraged, btw.

 

 

Thanks for the input, keep the junks comin!

[Rajess MoDuron]

Moderators leave the ban at home,

The post is full of ballers and their thoughts are full grown,

Forum heads leave your mouse in it's treads,

Cause it is 12:37 (EST) and the post is bumpin bumpin.

 

Oh yeah, they ain't got NOTHIN on me!

[The Truthful Liar]

Also there could also be the possibility of having a couple game settings/modes for the mod.

 

Such as:

 

1. Choose a character. Every character has different Pro's and Con's. You cannot modify or adjust them. Some are better with defending/blocking others are more aggressive, etc...

So instead of using stances, every character has a different style of fighting. Maybe one character is especial with kicking and more close combat, another could handle better with fancy saber moves and snazzy techniques, while another (please excuse the over-usage of 'another') character could be more specialized in strong attacks and be more of a bold character so to speak, and of course you can have a middle-end kind of guy who doesn't really have a 'special' aspect to that character making him a more nondescript type of player.

 

2. The second kind of 'mode' could involve as you say, you want to make it more 'movie like' - you could RE-INACT the very precise movie scenes. Without any changes. If you re-inacted.. lets say.. the Obiwan VS Darth battle. Same Location, Same sabers, same position, basically Precise to every detail. And it could actually feel as if you are playing Darth or Obi. Keeping in mind so as to make it PERFECTLY realistic, Darth would have the same kind of strengh and power he had then/used. Meaning a player would go all "Drain wh0ring" like a beserk nor would Obi (player) become a "heal $lut". And you couldn't break any barriers, like run into solo's ship and say "SO LONG SUCKERS, BWAAHAHAHAHA" and go off leaving Luke, Han, Leia and the rest behind.

 

NO!

NO!

NO!

 

The very details would have to be considered very carefully as well as characters in the movie and their positions. We could say that Darth had a more strong position at that time since he was in his own area where Obi was new to the surroundings of outerspace and he took on a more defensive role.

 

You could argue that since Obi died, would that ending HAVE to occur... Well I say that anything can happen so not making the poor person who plays as Obi thinking "awww... man SCREWED AGAIN I'm playing as Obi for the third time in a row" =)

 

Now this brings up another interesting point...

 

As a whole addition for a singleplayer manifesto, maybe re-create (at least) the first movie, A New Hope. Where you can choose too take a role and pending wether you die or live the outcome changes. For instance if you played as Obi Wan and (no you cannot kill Darth, too stupid at this point) you defeated him, Obi lives and the future of "A New Hope" changes (but... I think he should die at some stage)

 

Maybe making a new SP scenario playing in Lukes time. *gleeful smile* and really 'choosing your destiny'...

 

kthxbye

 

(P.S. if anything else comes to mind or if I perhaps want to change anything I will come back and post again )

[shred_lord]

7 stances are not to many!

 

Just think how many styles of sword use there are in the real world. More than there are different types of sword, and there are a lot of different types of sword. They all have different pro's and con's.

 

As to the animations:- one developers = one style

 

The styles can be balanced out afterwards.

 

Also, I love to see some styles with some authenticity! The 'classic' style (used by old Obi Wan) is pretty much Kendo with a few alterations. So if you're a developer who does Kendo(or knows someone who does), maybe you're the guy to animate this style.

 

Similarly, are you or someone you know a fencer? Then give it a go.

 

The only style that need a lot of inventiveness would be double bladed as it is the furthest from any real world style. (though maby close to the use of a 'black ronin' /shrug)

 

 

Anyway great idea.

[Rajess MoDuron]

Thanks to all of you, keep the input coming!

 

This mod cannot survive without your input, as I don't wanna put what will more than likely be over a year of work into a mod that nobody is going to play because it isn't userfriendly or playable. Tell me what YOU, the players, want. I know what I as a player want, but I am a Star Wars nut first, player last.

 

Thanks again, from the cockles of my heart...or maybe the subcockle area, but whatever!

 

Seth

[Exar]

from what i understand of force implemantation in saber combat in the movies and other star wars fiction, it works much like the force speed power in SP. for example in the movies ( mostly the new ones) it would be impossible for a regular person to keep that kind of pace and accuracy in a sword fight. its is so fast and intence that unless you altered your perception of time it would be impossible to keep up. this is described in Tales of the Jedi and Dark Empire as "battle meditation" in which the jedi basicly hightens their perception and percieves reality as "slowed down" while their own reactions increase. in other books like I jedi, it is described in much the same way, where corran can see in slow motion the possible outcomes of his enemies next move, allowing him to react with jedi speed. It could be arued though that the force is just used to guide the jedi's movments like autonomic response. the latter is more suitable for this type of mod idea because not many people would want to play in a slo mo style for combat. i like the idea of using up force power for the sake of the actual combat itself, and while you have force power you could basically block all incoming blows and react like a jedi should. this would cause the players to pace themselves a little more and be a little more cautious with the other force abilities. I dont really care how its done but any kind of mod that would make the saber combat more like the movies would be very welcome by me!

for that matter the only compaint i have is in SP it should not take more than 2 shots to kill a stormtrooper with a blaster rifle. its rediculous that even the disruptor can take multiple shots to kill a stormtrooper. It should be more like the movies!!! 1 shot to the torso should take em out! about styles, dont forget the backhanded style used by the evil jedi women in the that jedi academy novel (cant remember which one exactly) where they have the blade comming from the bottom of the hand.

[Brodieman]

Love the idea, my input would be to allow more defensive moves as if you look in the movies it isn't all attack moves, the defence is purely spectacular at times - Obi-Wan defending Darth Maul's attacks in the Phantom Menace being the premier example. I guess i';m saying more attack modes are cool but chuck some devensive postures/stances/moves in as well, don't make them impregnable fortresses obviously but do use them as an option it would greatly increase gameplay longevity. What would look better then a stunning attack, a stunning defence that puts you in position to attack.

[Rajess MoDuron]

Like the input guys! Good morning everyone (at least here is is morning).

 

Okay Brodieman, love the name AND the idea. Maybe replacing the present saber style system with the defensive, agressive, and neutral postures would be a good and easy way to deal with that.

 

The one problem that I can think of is that I'm not quite sure how the MP saber code works yet, but I think they made it so that the percentage of blocks done by both people swinging is greatly reduced. Either that or LAG (eeeeww...) contributes to the both people swinging both or neither hitting at all syndrome.

 

Whatever, it's an awesome idea, and we will try to incorporate it somehow.

 

Seth

[Brodieman]

Originally posted by Rajess MoDuron

Like the input guys! Good morning everyone (at least here is is morning).

 

Okay Brodieman, love the name AND the idea. Maybe replacing the present saber style system with the defensive, agressive, and neutral postures would be a good and easy way to deal with that.

 

The one problem that I can think of is that I'm not quite sure how the MP saber code works yet, but I think they made it so that the percentage of blocks done by both people swinging is greatly reduced. Either that or LAG (eeeeww...) contributes to the both people swinging both or neither hitting at all syndrome.

 

Whatever, it's an awesome idea, and we will try to incorporate it somehow.

 

Seth

 

Thanks mate, anyway i love the idea of Defensive, Aggressive and Neutral stances but as you say it all depends on current coding. If it couldn't be done i guess it wouldn't be a great loss as your idea is sensational, ever think of trying the same for SP?

[Rajess MoDuron]

There is a naughty naughty rumor that no SP SDK will be released. Naughty naughty naughty.

 

If it does come out, we might try SP first, and see if people like it. Whatevs, it's all good.

 

Seth

[Rajess MoDuron]

Bringing

Usurpance,

Meagerly

Presented.

[Brodieman]

No SP SDK??!? Surely that is tantamount to commercial suicide? Surely Raven and LEC realise that they have a huge base following and to snub the loyalty and dedication of the fan base is to lessen themselves in our eyes. Raven have always been good with their stuff hpefully this will continue with JK2, we all want mods we all are ready to make mods we just need assisstance from the creators to make them simply brilliant experiences.

 

That's really disappointing to hear, no SP SDK.

[ArmageddonX]

PERFECT...... I want to be involved... please! lol

[Rajess MoDuron]

Don't hold me to that man, I'm just passing on a rumor I heard.

 

Now, as for joining the Mod...

 

So far, I'm pretty sure we are good with people right now. NRG (the group that is doing the modification AT SOME POINT, not necessarily immediately, we gots to warm up and shtuff) DOES need an animator. This much I know. Either an animator for the team, or an animator when we do eventually do the mod.

 

We have skinners, we have mappers, we have modellers (I think, correct me please) and we have programmers. Basically we're just waiting on the SDK and getting our feet wet.

 

Okay, MORE INPUT!!

 

What do you guys like?

 

What DON'T you like?

 

What have YOU noticed from the movies that you think would be cool to integrate?

 

 

 

 

MOREMOREMORE

 

Seth

[Brodieman]

Bounty Hunters! please. Maybe mostly expanded environments too, or i should say more varied - a Gungan city or Calamari scene would be awesome i think. Best of all though a more interactive environment, i want that panel to smoke and spark when i sabre it in a duel. Any idea when this is going to get off the ground mate?

[[-X-] Vagabond]

I want that MOD

[Rajess MoDuron]

Yeah, I dunno about the Hunters...maybe.

 

As for when?

 

Like I know. The SDK release will help. Outrageously talented programmers wouldn't hurt. I think we have the programmers, but I don't truly know for sure.

 

We have the skinners, oh boy do we ever.

 

Yeah

 

Hopefully pretty fast.

 

Seth

[toolboi]

There WILL be 7 forms of lightsaber combat. Each with it's own strengths, weaknesses, and animations.

 

Aint gonna happen. Unless you have softimage and inside sources at Raven the animations cant be changed (short of some VERY good hack jobs).

 

But what you could do is a variation of force speed to add speed levels to the current styles, that would give you at least 6 stances, but it'd be kinda... stupid... as it wouldnt add much (if anything) to the game. However I guess that you could edit the dammage of the two hidden stances and add them.

[Rajess MoDuron]

How do you know you cannot do it?

 

Raven very well could release animation stuff with the SDK. I mean, good to hear negative input, but lets not jump to conclusions like that until the SDK comes out.

 

The SDK will make or break this idea. Either way, I want lucasarts to see this so they have at least an idea of what people maybe want just a little.

 

Thanks!

 

Seth

[Rajess MoDuron]

So it sounds like the SDK will have animations tools with it. Now to move on to what the next thing you all think would be impossible!

 

NEXT

 

Seth

[ArmageddonX]

Ok. Next Topic.

Sabre Styles

Obviously your going to add The Twin Sabres and the Double. Are you considering any other "unknown" styles. Like maybe a sort of sabre Sia. Ya know, the weapon that looks like a three pronged fork. The only example I can think of is the weapon Raphiel of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles used, he was the "red" turtle. lol.... That weapon, and OTHERs! like maybe a Sabre Rod. A force enstrengthened rod with a small sabre at the end. I don't know... What are your Ideas on different Sabre types???