This team based mod thing

[CHIVs]

I think this team based mod thing will be good. I always like single player games to deathmatch, as I like to complete objectives rather than rack up the highest kill count. ultimately it is up to the designers what goes in it. Jedis should be allowed, look at the games title: JEDI KNIGHT II: JEDI OUTCAST. but yes they should definately be weaken. I think five powers should be used:

 

Jump (Level 1)

Speed (Level 1)

Push (Level 1)

Heal (Lightside/Rebels/Republic only, level 1)

Grip (Darkside/Empire/Remnant only)

 

Saber throw (level 1)

 

To outlaw jedi would be wrong, but i agree they should not be too powerful. The mission ideas I have read have been great, like the battle of hoth, (Or Endor, without the Ewoks) and the plant the bomb idea.

 

How will the designers let fans of the mod know how it is progressing? Also, does anyone know what the SDK thing that everyone keeps talking about is? Please let me know either on this forum or by email.

 

Good luck

 

CHIVs:atat:

[llama]

About the question on the SDK.

 

I can only point out that Raven (dev) of outcast has not yet releast the SDK/GDK. He said that the sdk/gdk will be released ''next'' week. Hopefully his word will go through and we see the Sdk/gdk soon and all can be happy modding maps..

 

---------//--------

About the mod-crew and the force things/jedi..

then i am in agreement with you.. there was atleast 1 jedi on Hoth if not 2 (princess leia - she however is not properly trained.)

 

There was 1 Jedi + Leia on endor... + 1 sith by the name of Darth Vader.

---------//--------

[penography]

i like the idea of this mod. i dont think their should be jedis. if you want to play some jedis than play outcast or anohter mod once it comes out. when you dont feel like playing as a jedi play this mod. the idea of this mod, if i understand, is primarily about the battles between the rebels and the stromtroopers.

[Roger]

Finally someone who understands... This is about battles between rebels and stormtroopers, not Jedi against Sith.

 

It's about the battles in the movies in the time period of episode IV to VI.

 

It's about mission oriented maps.

 

It's about teamplay.

 

It's about Star Wars.

 

I'm not sure if this mod is ever gonna see the light of day, because too many people think there have to be jedi in it.

 

I think we could create a kick ass mod without jedi, in which you can play as a rebel or imperial, fighting battles on Hoth, Endor and other locales, completing mission goals together with your team mates.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

Right - I was going to keep quiet, but I just can't help myself...........................

 

For the LOVE OF GOD - open your eyes and look at the amount of people on this forum alone who are dying to play not only a SW mission-orienated MP teamplay mod - but who want to play a SW mission-oriented MP teamplay mod where you can, in some maps,have the chance to play as a Jedi alongside other team-mates of whatever class. There is at least one blatent example of this in the OT (The Sarlac scene), and many more in Ep.1. (OK - overall the film sucked arse - but the idea of Jedi fighting alongside other soldiers certainly does NOT suck - and I'm sure MANY people on this forum understand that, even if you don't.)

 

I think you'll find people who WANT Jedi included in some shape or form are actually in the majority here. Are you really gonna alienate all these people just because you and a couple of buddies don't want them in - period?

 

Of course - for some maps they can be disallowed. I agree that a Hoth map would almost certainly be better WITHOUT Jedi. (While Jedi were there, they didn't do anything very Jedi-like. Vader seemed to be happy letting everyone else do the work, while all Luke did was cut a hatch open with his light-saber - not exactly too exciting Jedi-action wise...)

 

If you think Jedi's can't be balanced against other classes - your just plain wrong. If you think people will only play Jedi - your wrong too, not if you make the other classes just as useful and just as effective.

 

Renegade

[Eudaimic]

"This mod is about Star Wars"

 

... Ehhh... isn't Star Wars a lot about lightsabers and the force?... In fact isn't that the reason for the Empire's rise to power?... And ... oh nevermind

[Roger]

Wow, quite some strong language there...

 

I'm not alienating people, maybe I'm alienating myself, but that's my choice to make.

 

Again, if you don't like my idea, that's fine. I'm still thinking about it.

 

Again, I'm tinkering with the idea of having jedi in them, as I told everybody in "the discussion".

 

Again, I want to create a mod that recreates the feel of the battles in the movies (part IV to VI, so no Epsidoe I), and I feel that Jedi are not needed, but could be in there in the long run.

 

Again, I never said Jedi couldn't be balanced.

 

Again, I probably have to be more precise in my "about" section...

 

Again, I'm not starting a fight...

 

Roger

[penography]

The Star Wars movies (the cannon) is about the Skywalker family. They are Jedi yes. This mod uses elements from Star Wars. The Rebels vs Imperials element. The Star Wars OT is about the Rebel forces trying to defeat the Imperials. There would not be any Jedi (except for Vader and the Emporer which arent foot soldiers anyways and Leia who wouldn't even know she is a Jedi if Luke didn't join the Rebels) in the OT if Luke Skywalker didnt decide to go with Obi-Wan to Mos Eisley, however there would still be Rebels vs Imperials. There will be other mods with Jedi, I understand there is a mod called The Golden Age or something. Just see how this mod works out. The SDK should come out soon and a beta should follow not too long after (I presume). At least give this mod a chance with no Jedi.

[Roger]

Thanks Penography (like that name...)

 

You seem to understand what this mod is all about.

 

I too think there will be more Jedi mods than people can handle in the long run.

 

That doesn't mean this mod will have no Jedi. I just want to start out without them and if people feel they should be in there, we can always put them in. But I think this idea (it isn't just mine, James also had a large part in developing it) could stand on its own without Jedi.

 

Roger

[Marwynn]

Wait, a mod of Jedi Knight 2, which uses a modified Quake 3 engine, without most of its improvements? Wouldn't that be a Quake 3 Star Wars mod instead? You could've gotten started on that one a long time ago (no pun intended, seriously) since you're not planning on incorporating any of the new stuff in JK2.

 

A Rebel/Imperial soldier in this game would benefit from the existing atmosphere already present, that's true, but what is the point of not going all the way? Played properly, each side of the Force is pretty balanced. And while battles between rebels and imperials will be cool, a war between jedi and sith would be cooler. I'm not trying to dis you man, but it's true.

 

It didn't have to be 'jedi-only' or 'no-jedis-allowed', it could've been both since I'm assuming you're planning a RTCW/TF2 type mod that changes maps depending on who's victorious. Perhaps the Jedi 'class' only comes to play after sufficient victories, either through kills or completing objectives. I mean, there weren't that many Jedis/Sith (Siths? Sithites?) at every corner of the universe, a fight in a small outpost wouldn't warrant the presence of these force-channellers, but a battle on the streets of Coruscant or Hoth might.

 

One way to 'balance' the jedis with the non-jedis is the fact that the soldiers should get to use all the cool weapons (save the lightsabre) while the jedis can utilize the force and the lightsabre only.

 

I'd appeal to you to include Jedis in some form. It just feels 'misplaced' that a mod for a game that already features these Jedis would actually remove a part of the game's functionality. Also, what you are trying to achieve now, using the current game, could be a Team FFA, with no force powers and a disabled lightsabre. A set of maps with 'triggers' to keep track of victories and objectives might be the only thing that is required. Of course, you can also add weapons, gear, etc, but essentially that is it. That's Team Fortress/Counterstrike set in the Star Wars universe without any of the predominant things people think, when they think 'Star Wars'.

 

If you think you can make this work, and above all, make it fun, then more power to you and I look forward to blasting any Rebel scum as a Stormtrooper.

[Roger]

Yes, that's basically it, Team Fortress in a Star Wars universe, what's so bad about that? I got the idea a couple of months ago, and why not use the latest incarnation of the Quake 3 engine, JKII.

 

As I said before and I'll say it again... Jedi might be in there, I don't know yet, we had the idea to do it without jedi, but who knows....

[MindBreak]

This mod is what i want, wen i first played the game i thought that it would be cool with a mod much like Return to Castle Wolfensteins multiplayer part, with team based gameplay.

 

And leave the jedi powers out of it, what is it with people cant the fight good without "help" like pushing and sh*t.

 

Just a plain War Mod the war between The Rebbels and The Empire mmm mmm that sound like a blast!

 

please don't include jedi's in the mod (or make 2 versions of it)

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

OK - I've looked back on my post and, I agree, it was a little bit strong. I apologise to Roger and anyone else who thinks I went a little too far. This is only a game were talking about here - I just need to get out more I reakon...

 

Or maybe I need more drugs.

 

*Takes a quick puff*

 

Ahh - much better!!

 

It probably sounds like I'm holding a substantial grudge - but I assure you that's not the case! I'm not trying to start a fight - but I must admit I am quite fustrated by this debate / discussion, which caused my to say things in a tone that I didn't need to use...

 

Roger, I know you were talking about possibly letting Jedi in, but from the earlier posts, I got the impression that you'd changed your mind and that you were back to blankly saying 'No Jedi'. So, looks like I got the wrong end of the stick there. Sorry.

 

However, I just want to cover the point about there being too many Jedi mods out there. Yes, your right, there are naturally gonna be a LOT of mods for JKII with Jedi's in them. BUT, assuming our team hadn't have broken away from you, who would DEFINETLY be doing an MP objective-based teamplay mod with Jedi in it? 'Cos that IS the mod that I have wanted since I first heard about this game - and it appears lots of others have had similar expectations. I wouldn't really care how many other Jedi mods get made - I would always be waiting for that one!

I haven't heard of any others doing this yet. I've heard of a couple of SP games, some Jedi-ONLY stuff etc. etc. but nothing like what we want to do. So, I really don't see that that argument has much relevance. It's like saying that you guys shouldn't do your mod 'cos their's already loads of SW games out there - why should you try and make another...?!

 

But, anyway, at the end of the day, our team - The Strike Force team - are going to make the mod we want to make, and of course I respect your right to do the same. So, I think we should just leave you guys to it and stop acting like twats on your forum. (Actually, I guess that statement mainly counts for just me! The rest of the team don't seem to be as petty as I am...!)

It's just not polite. We'll keep our discussions on our own forums - when our websites up. (Any day now ... he said! )

 

And who knows - you may end up being proved right in your convictions, in which case I will take my hat off to ya - or eat it - or maybe shove it up my arse, who knows!!

 

Renegade

[greves]

i can't wait for this mod to come out me and my friends are psyched. i hope it comes out soon and for the love of god NO JEDIS if the game is rebel and stormtrooper or whatever team based objective based game it will totally rip. also you could make neat jedi team based objective based game. light versus dark. that could be a mod to this mod or just another mod for JKII... but instead of being red vs blue its light vs dark and ur on either side and u can only use those forces... and there could be objectives too. can't think of any now but i'm anxious to see soe screenies of your mod or the like. bye now.

[Marwynn]

Originally posted by Roger

Yes, that's basically it, Team Fortress in a Star Wars universe, what's so bad about that? I got the idea a couple of months ago, and why not use the latest incarnation of the Quake 3 engine, JKII.

 

In all honesty, a mod that just copies the ideas put forth in another mod from another game isn't really a mod, but simply another version of it; a translation. Yes, with the refinements done by Raven on the Q3 engine this could be one sweet-ass looking translation of TF or CS.

 

I'd hate to say it but you saying 'Team Fortress in a Star Wars universe' means you're ripping off those Aussies that made TF since they practically invented the current sub-genre of team-based multiplay. You can do better than that, Roger.

 

Besides, why not take a cue from the game you're modding; allow the players to decide how they want to play the game: with or without force powers? lightsabres only? guns only? etc.

 

A 'general' mod that allows team-based multiplay and leaves the specifics to the players would be more fitting to JK2 mod. Perhaps if there isn't any bad blood between you and the rest of the former team, you can work together to build seperate pieces of a whole. Any group of people that wish to play your set of rules should be able to flip a few switches and voila! If another group wishes to engage in a Force War then other switches are turned on and lightsabre fun ensues. If another group of people want something in-between then maybe they should be able to.

 

I'm 'arguing' so 'vocally' about the inclusion of jedis simply because that while they aren't everyone's favourites, they are favoured enough to not be excluded from a team-oriented game. I mean, for once, you could actually use some of those pre-set force definitions to some good use being your team's 'Healer/Drainer' or 'Knight/Ravager'.

 

I guess the thought of leading a group of Jedis into a Sith slave compound and having a massive lightsabre battle, flipping and rolling and jumping about, is just a 'too-cool' idea for me to give up on.

[RenegadeOfPhunk]

Originally posted by Marwynn

 

Any group of people that wish to play your set of rules should be able to flip a few switches and voila! If another group wishes to engage in a Force War then other switches are turned on and lightsabre fun ensues. If another group of people want something in-between then maybe they should be able to.

 

 

You've hit the nail on the head there Marwynn. Why please only a sub-set of people when, with just a bit of thought and planning, you can please a whole load more with comparativly insignificant amount of extra work?

Rest assured, we will un-doubtedly be doing something just like this. Probably for both individual maps and server-side options.

 

Sorry - just promised I wasn't going to stick my nose in here didn't I...

 

I'll go now..

[Walther]

I have to say that I would like to see a mod sans jedi. However, it would be nice to have an option for jedi incorporated into a playmode in game to cater for all of those people who want to keep the Jedi class.

What I don't really want to see is a game very similar to TFC - although thats the right kind of idea, in TFC you have to shoot people too many times- it should be only 1 or 2 needed.

[Walther]

The "Strike Force Team" - whats that all about? You making an equivalent mod? Because if you are I'd like a link to that. Alternatively if you don't have a page yet send me some details at walther@imperial-center.co.uk.

[llama]

Make Jedi bots then

for those who want to see a lasersword in a fight ?

 

 

otherwise modders of Rebelstrike.. fullfill your destiny and complite the mod just the way you want it

 

I will give it a go.

 

/llama

[llama]

During the Hoth campaign, the Emperor commanded Vader to track down the "son of Skywalker," and have Vader turn him to the dark side of the Force. Vader planned to use Skywalker's friends as bait to lure him into a trap. He hired a motley gang of bounty hunters to track down the Falcon, and drew Luke to Bespin's Cloud City. He and Luke clashed in a lightsaber duel that Vader won by ruthlessly severing Luke's sword-hand. Vader then revealed to the broken young Jedi that he was his father, and that they would rule the galaxy as father and son. Luke refused to succumb to the dark side, and escaped his father. Vader was left empty-handed.

 

The quote came from Vaders Database

 

So lets have Hoth without Jedis

 

/llama

[CHIVs]

Any group of people that wish to play your set of rules should be able to flip a few switches and voila! If another group wishes to engage in a Force War then other switches are turned on and lightsabre fun ensues. If another group of people want something in-between then maybe they should be able to.

 

I agree. It is better to please all than to alienate some. I also agree that some levels should be without jedi, the battle of hoth for example, and the plant a bomb on a star destroyer that somebody suggested (Would a jedi really commit suicide? Obi-wan kenobi doesn't count coz he is an a*se!)

 

But, as I sed before, it is up to the programmer to do what he believes is best. Hopefully it won't be too long before it is finished.

 

PS. What does SDK stand for? I know absolutely nothing about it so please could someone explain EVERYTHING about it and what it will do.

 

Cheers. CHIVs:atat:

[llama]

Source / Software / developer kit.

Game developer kit...

 

 

The program is not yet releiced for JK2..

Belive me.. you will know when it is.

 

 

/llama

[Larn Senn]

For those who wonder, yes, I am new to the LucasForums and to this board in particular. I stumbled across the Rebel Strike site via the Jedi Knight II mod site.

 

I don't know what has been going with this mod, but if there is one thing I would like to see as a mod for JK2 it's something like this. You guys just try Return to Castle Wolfenstein (you guessed it: Q3 engine) to see what I mean.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like Jedi, and I'm in a Jedi clan as well (http://www.newjediorder.com). But in my opinion Roger is quite right when we wants to exclude Jedi from this mod. Just Stormies versus Rebs, what do you want more? Jedi you say? Well, you can have lots of Jedi stuff in normal FFA, so what are you waiting for?

 

Both Rebel Strike and Strike Force are mods which seem very interesting. Keep it up, and good luck in finding new team members Roger.

 

- Larn

[Roger]

Well, quite a nice discussion about Jedi or no Jedi.

 

But I think the solution presented itself.

 

Strike Force will have Jedi and Rebel Strike will not (for now).

 

Thanks for your suggestions, ideas and support. I do hope we'll get a team together, as I believe this would be a great mod and a great addition to the Star Wars gaming universe...

[CHIVs]

That seems to be the best thing for the Jedi issue. Thanks to llama for clarifying the SDK issue. Have you completely planned any maps yet? Everyone keeps on mentioning Hoth and Endor (which should really kick ass) but have you though of any others? Also, in the Hoth map, would there be AT-AT's, and would they move. AT-St's would be cool, and would probably be easy to sort out, but fighting alongside the 20 story AT-AT's would really be an achievement! Im struggling to think of anymore land battles from the films (There is always the skirmish on tatooine at the start of return of the jedi, but that would be nowhere near as good as Hoth or Endor). You could do the storming of the Naboo Palace from Ep1.

 

Or...

 

Make some up. Providing you don't 'Change History' ie Blow up the Deathstar with a suicide bomb the sky is the limit. Can you make a list of all the maps/missions you are designing or are you going to wait until it is finished before releasing that?

 

CHIV's