Compiled: All Saber Fighting Moves (huge text post)

[ArtifeX]

It's been a while since I've seen a saber moves thread, and I wanted to post a more current list than the ones I've seen so far. Hopefully this will help out some of the players struggling with saber duelling, and up the average skill level of the online players.

 

I'm becoming afraid that all the saber moves have indeed been found. If there isn't something new discovered or added by Raven via a patch soon, I'm not sure I'll keep playing. The moves that are truly effective and practical are far outweighed by those that seem to be useless filler. Hence, even with every combat option enabled, the fights become repetitive if your aim is to win rather than just goof around.

 

General Notes:

 

- All swings made to the left are generally faster than those made to the right, but have shorter range.

 

- Vertical swings are harder to hit with than horizontal ones.

 

- Downward swings break through defenses better than upwards or sideways swings.

 

- Defense Strength (strongest to weakest) - Standing still, Moving, Jumping, Using Force Power, Attacking.

 

- Light swings do 30 damage, Medium 60, and Strong 100.

 

- Non-swinging saber strikes to 5 damage each.

 

 

The Stances:

 

Light Stance -- 95% useless. You'll see this style used by a lot of newbies who constantly echo, "I'm Drizzt Do'Urden! I'm Drizzt Do'Urden!". It should be renamed to "Headless Chicken" style. Almost everyone you see using this style will run at you swing-spamming like a chicken with its head cut off (hence the monicker). The swings themselves are little faster than the medium style and do far less damage (about half) and have severely abbreviated range. Anyone trying to use this in a serious duel can consider themselves duly warned. The only swing of any use from this style is the duck-forward rush attack, but I'll describe it further down. The normal attacks are only effective in a no-force duel environment where healing is impossible and you can nick your opponent to death. Because of that you'll see many proponents of this style complaining about use of Force Heal and Force Drain in Force-powered matches.

 

Defense Holes: behind and right side.

 

Moves :

 

- Forward Rush - duck + forward + attack

- Damage: 60 pts.

- Recovery Time: Moderate

- Usage: A good long-range surprise attack. Most will telegraph this move by ducking and waiting for their opponent to come to them. Don't. Just tap duck, then forward + attack. The surprise factor is much higher that way. Still, there's many better tactics than this when your opponent is within this move's range that won't leave you open during a recovery time. Because this is a vertical attack, it's more difficult to hit with. You can chain these swings together ad infinitum. See my discussion of chained attacks below.

 

- Backstab - (opponent behind) back + attack

- Damage: 40 pts. (?, I think I remember this correctly)

- Recovery Time: Long

- Usage: This move blows. It's the hardest move to hit with except for maybe the Medium style's finishing move, is very slow, leaves you open to attack forever, and has very low damage. An all-around loser move. Use this when you're just trying to show off or humiliate someone.

 

- Light Combos

- The Hedge-Trimmer - While pressing the attack button, rapidly alternate pressing the strafe left and strafe right key. You will perform a very quick succession of short lateral swings. This is fastest group of strikes possible in the game.

 

 

Medium Stance -- Double the damage, better range, almost the exact same attack speed, and better special moves make this better than Light style by a factor of two at least. This style only allows a maximum of 5 swings to be chained together, but any more swings than 5 are just spam anyway.

 

Defense Holes: left behind, behind, right behind

 

Moves:

 

- Medium Finisher - (opponent in front and close) jump + forward + attack

- Damage : 60

- Recovery: long (special)

- Usage: This is a very unique move that causes you to flip over the head of your opponent and slash downwards at him while at the apex of your jump. It does fair damage, but leaves you open for some time. My advice is to use this infrequently to vary your attacks and to make sure that as you finish the move, turn so that your oppenent is in the 1-2 o'clock position relative to you, that way your saber will be pointing at them. If they rush you, they'll impale themselves on your still-dangerous saber. That's why I've marked this recovery time as "special"-- if you count the fact your saber is still dangerous until the animation is finished, then effective recovery time is shorter.

 

It has been reported that you can begin a medium slash and halfway through it hit jump + attack and you will begin the medium finisher. This is similar to pulling off the Strong finisher. (Thx, Tam) I have verified this through testing. The timing is more difficult because of the speed of the initial swing, but it is possible.

 

- Rear Sweep (Medium) - (opponent close and behind) back + attack

- Damage : 80 or 160 or 240

- Recovery : Moderate

- Usage: This does a turning, corkscrew sweep. Useful in the right hands. If your opponent is VERY close and in the 8 o'clock position relative to you, you can actually strike three times with this for a total damage of 240 points. Incidental, non-swing damage is frequently inflicted with this attack, so you may get an extra 5, 10 or even 15 points of damage out of it depending on how you time it.

 

- Medium Combos

- The Hedge-Trimmer - While pressing the attack button, rapidly alternate pressing the strafe left and strafe right key. You will perform a very quick succession of short lateral swings. This is fastest group of strikes possible in the game.

 

Strong Stance -- All the best players I've met have used this stance. This should be renamed to, "Experienced Stance" or "Thoughtful Stance" because it is the only stance that allows you to choose a swing and move in the direction of your choice. The range is fantastic; as is the damage. The finishing move is almost always a 1-hit-kill and can be launched from a myriad of other attacks. The under-used vanilla jump attacks are also tactically superior to the other stances. Healers and Drainers got you down? Hit them once to knock off their default 25 shields and let them heal all they want, because the next time you hit them with even the basic strong swing, they're dead.

 

This stance also has the advantage of blasting through weaker defenses. If you've not been putting 3 levels into Saber Defense, you're going to get eaten alive by Strong stance players. The overhand chop is especially viscious (forward/backwards + attack). It's been reported that some have a lot of success with the back + right + attack swing breaking through defenses while someone's on the move (thx, Lord Nodata). After testing, I've found that this is because this diagonal swing will go underneath another swinging saber. If the opponent isn't swinging, then this isn't as effective as a downwards cut.

 

Defense Holes: left and behind

 

Moves:

- Finisher (Strong) - (half second after the start of any strong swing) jump + forward

- Damage - 100-200

- Recovery Time - Long (special)

- Usage - This is the most powerful swing in the game (Maybe. See Strong Back Sweep below). You'll see a lot of newbies spamming this move once they've learned it. Using it halfway through a regular swing or after a vanilla jump attack works equally well; only the range is different. Make sure to stay turned towards your target all the way through the animation as your saber is still dangerous even when completely buried in the ground in front of you. Many have died walking over that subterranian saber. At certain points during the animation it is uncounterable except by some force powers(push always works). Very early in the swing you can be cut down out of the air fairly easily, but the window of opportunity is very short. My advice is if you see someone start this, get away from them, then retailate, or use force push on them (using force pull is a great way to commit suicide here).

 

- Strong Back Sweep - (opponent close behind) back + attack

- Damage - 120 or 240 or 360(!)

- Recovery - Moderate

- Usage - This has the potential to be more powerful than the strong finishing move. I've backed someone into a corner and hit them 3 times with this one swing. Once with the wind up, once with the start of the swing, and once with the end of it. I'll try to duplicate it and post a demo later. This should be possible with the medium version as well since they're the same animation, but I haven't tried that yet. This beats the medium version anyway for just that reason: same animation, more damage.

 

Chained Attacks

 

Because of the way swings are chosen in jk2, by moving in a particular direction and hitting attack, the usefulness of chained attacks is somewhat dubious. This means that when you are attacking your opponent with fast medium (or light) stance swings you have two choices. You can either: 1--choose which swing you want, or 2--move in the direction of (or away from) your opponent and take the swing that direction gives you. It is seldom (1 out of 8 times) that your opponent will just happen to be in the direction of exactly the swing you want to do. To me, this makes both medium and light stance pretty useless since you should always control your position before your swing. Hence, every swing after the initial one is just potluck depending on which direction you need to move in at the time.

 

Kicks

 

If you don't use kicks now, start. They're the fastest attacks in the game and their damage ignores shielding. 20 points armor-piercing damage is not to be scoffed at. Nor is the chance that you will knock your opponent down a la force push. Kicking can be done by either pressing forward or sideways into your opponent and hitting the jump key. Forward does a back flip-kick and sideways does a side flip-kick. Extra style kudos for using the side flip-kicks. Many times I have turned off my saber during a duel and kicked someone to death from full health. It's a most humiliating way to die. This is a great way to set your opponent up for a coup-de-grace.

 

I have a big problem with No-Force matches because they don't allow kicks, which are the only counter against a rushing player in that environment (aside from a disengaging roll, but all that does is drag out the match. No, blocking i don't consider a counter, because it has a random factor associated with it). I generally won't play them for that reason.

 

Rolls

 

Rolls are the better of the two faster movement modes, the other being jumping. You can move about a map faster by constantly rolling rather than running. Rolling has the advantange over jumping of better directional control. While jumping, air control is minimal, but you can actually completely reverse direction during a roll by quickly flicking the view around 180 degrees just as you start the roll. The only drawback is the slight recovery time that leaves you open to attack.

 

Wall-walking and flips

 

Wall-walking - (Gotta have level 2 jump) run along side a wall while strafing in its direction and hit and hold the jump key. You'll run up the wall. Release and hit jump again quickly to flip off the wall. Simply release to fall to the ground.

 

A neat trick is to wall-walk along irregular surfaces. This will give you an extra boost up every time you hit another polygon surface. You can almost hit the sky box in duel_jedi outside near the stream doing this. Make sure you hold down jump all the way through the walk if you try this.

 

Wall-flip - run forward into a wall and hit jump just as you make contact. You'll do a back flip off the wall. Hitting and holding the back key will give you enough distance from the wall to get behind a closely persuing opponent.

 

Saber Locking

 

Who wins a saber lock is determined by two factors: who can click their attack button faster and who can use force push more without running out of force power. Try to finish a successful saber lock with a push, otherwise while absorbed in your clicking fervor, you'll make an accidental swing after knocking them over that won't reach them. If you're using the strong stance then you won't have enough time before they recover to get in another swing.

 

Saber Defense (blocking)

After a very thorough amount of testing, I have compiled a large amount of surprising information on saber blocking. I'll organize this into three sections: the affect of the Saber Defense Force power, the "blockability" of the different stance's swings, and Saber Throw blocking.

 

First of all, spending points on level 3 saber defense IS worthwhile when blocking blaster fire or saber swings. Far fewer blaster shots will make it through your defense with a higher skill level. Defending against a saber swing isn't quite so simple. Raising your defense will increase your chances of blocking an attack, but equally important is the placement of your saber at the time your opponent makes his attack. If you can maneuver you saber between your player model and the incoming saber swing, your chances of blocking will be massively more successful. This, I believe is why Light stance and Medium stance are thought to be(or are) more successful at blocking strikes--because if you're facing your opponent then your saber is between the two of you, which is exactly where it needs to be. This is more important when you have a low saber defense score, as you'll have to "manually" block most incoming strikes if you want to survive. Think of having high defense as blocking on "auto".

 

I feel I have to break this to all the Light and Medium stance proponents out there: there's yet another reason not to use your styles. A player can render himself completely invulnerable to your Light Style attacks and about 90% resistant to Medium attacks simply by getting level 3 saber defense, squatting in a corner and facing you. That 10% of Medium that will hit is the finishing move (sometimes) and the occasional swing that gets a bit behind him. I did this over and over again to verify it, and I am sorry to say it's true. This even works against many of the Strong stance swings, although you can break the defense nearly 100% if you get extremely close. That's because the swing's range is so great that the saber ends up behind the opponent and effectively gets them in the back. I actually killed myself on my assistants immobile outstretched blade while trying to score a hit with Light Stance. Did we need any more reasons not to use it? There are two exceptions to this: The light stance backstab is completely unblockable when your opponent is crouched, and the Light Stance lunge move can break through maybe 5% of the time.

 

Light Stance Blockability - you can block this all day long even with only level 1 saber defense. Someone using this is basically going to have to get behind you or far to one side to hit you with anything or charge blindly into you while you are swinging at them. The backstab is fully blockable, and is oddly moved off to the right sometimes by the block (make that very oddly), but is unblockable by a crouched target. The lunge move is also easily blocked by a stationary opponent, but not a moving one.

 

Medium Stance Blockability - Slightly more effective than light style because of its greater range which makes its attacks come more from the sides or behind than the Light Style counterparts. These are still blocked easily by looking at your attacker directly and not moving or attacking. The Medium finisher move is blockable, but rarely, because it slices down from above and to the side. The rear sweep attack is blockable but is dangerous in 3 different stages, all of which must be blocked if you are positioned correctly. This combined with the strangeness of the attack makes the chances of a successful block very slim.

 

Strong Stance Blockability - By far the least blockable of the stances. The oft-decried "Death from Above" finisher is actually blockable, but the close positioning required to do so is not only difficult, but seemingly inconsistent. Better to just get out of the way. I have not seen a successful block yet against the strong back sweep swing. This is for all sakes and purposes, unblockable. Of special note is the overhand vertical swing (forward or backwards + attack). This swing actually hits a stationary target twice and was the most successful at breaking through the "squatters" defense mentioned above. Many times the first hit near the head will be blocked, but the second hit near the knees will not. The backwards+right swing is also very penetrative when it connects low in the animation near the feet.

 

- Saber Throw Blocking - The saber defense skill appears to have no effect whatsoever on whether or not a thrown saber will be blocked. Even with only level 1 defense every front-impact throw can be successfully blocked using any stance as long as you are standing still. The only throws that will connect are those that attack from the sides or behind. Someone is always vulnerable to a throw while they are attacking. Despite beliefs to the contrary, testing has shown that it makes no difference whatsoever whether you throw at the feet, the body or the head--all frontal attacks will still be blocked.

 

Long Story short:

- If you want to block something, use light or medium stance.

- If you want to hit something, use strong stance.

- If you want to keep from getting hit by light and medium stance, stand still or crouch with your back to a corner.

- If you want to keep from getting hit by Strong stance, get the h3ll out of the way.

 

Countering "Death From Above" (DFA)

Also known as the Strong Finishing Move or Strong Leap Attack, this move seems to have caused players more grief than any other saber move. The ease with which it can be done, the massive damage it inflicts, the ability to rotate the swing during execution, and the huge hitbox it seemingly has make this cut one of the most effective in the game.

 

Though difficult, there are several saber-only ways of countering this move. The simplest of those would be to get out of the way. The drawback to that is that if you retreat too far then you have gained nothing, but neither have you lost anything. Learn to judge the minimum safe distance from the DFA and retreat no farther than you must--that will maximize your ability to counter. Another easy solution is to back away and throw your saber where they land. It's a quick 30 points of damage and they are completely defenseless against it. That's the strategy I recommend for FFA private duels: a few of those and they'll think twice before using DFA again. I would not recommend using this against someone who can heal themselves through heal, drain or by picking up nearby health and shield packs. All that would do is drain your force by 3 bars that could have been used on a more effective tactic. Third, you can attempt to counter their DFA with one of your own. The timing for this is very tricky, as is judging the distance and angle of your target. I have found that if you begin the swing that will lead into your DFA as soon as you know which direction they are lunging in, then your timing will drop you on top of them just as they are recovering from their slice: it should be a duel-winner. Lastly, if you find someone repeatedly spamming this move, you can choose to crowd them by staying close. The DFA-user is very susceptible to a counterswing very early in their execution when their saber is far back over their head. Try staying right on top of them and using a lot of the forward/back + attack downward chops and the back + right + attack diagonal uppercuts with the Strong style.

 

Though this isn't a guide on using force powers, in the interests of being thorough i'll mention a few force power counters. First, and most simple, using Force Push on them while they are in the air is 100% guaranteed to push them away from you. This may just serve to disengage you from melee for a few seconds and not allow you to counterattack, but it is very effective when in a closed in space where other strategies are not viable and when your enemy is close to a bottomless pit. Force Lightning can also be a big help. Being able to damage your opponent without ever entering his DFA range will force him to either change tactics or face eventual death (you are unlikely to kill him on the first shot, even by using up a full charge from your force pool). The Drain and Grip combination is a winner in this situation, though it uses up a ton of force power. The idea is to Drain them while avoiding their initial swings, then to Grip them once they hit the ground with their DFA. At that point, either complete the grip for full damage, or carry them to the nearest bottomless pit and drop them in for an easy kill. The last tactic is the most difficult, but can be the most punishing. Once they complete the DFA, there will be a very brief recovery where they will be completely vulnerable to being Pushed or Pulled from close range. If you time it perfectly, you can rush them at this point and knock them over 100% of the time. The importance of grasping the opportunity at just the right point cannot be stressed enough! If you go too soon, you risk being hacked by their still-dangerous saber. Too late, and they can counter your Push/Pull or simply get away. Follow the knock-down with a powerful swing and this could win you the duel.

 

Getting Up off Your 4$$ and Back Into the Fight

 

Getting knocked down by kicks, Push and Pull is a common occurrence in jk2. Getting up quickly and avoiding the incoming saber aimed at your head is not so common. There are three ways to get up: a back flip, a high back flip, and a kick-flip.

 

A simple back flip is done by pushing one of the directional movement keys or your attack button when you're knocked to the ground. This performs a low backflip off of the ground to a standing position. The Good: very fast; gives you a chance to block incoming attacks if you stand completely still and face your opponent immediately after getting up. The Bad: you're a sitting duck; the Strong overhand chop can frequently break through your block and hit you once or twice; if you don't get up quickly, then instead of blocking that cut you're going to take it in the teeth.

 

The high back flip is accomplished by mashing your jump key repeatedly when knocked down. This performs the same animation as the simple flip, but gets some air between you and your attacker. The Good: fast; most horizontal swings will go underneath you. The Bad: not as fast as the simple flip; a saber hit will throw you a good distance, which might result in a falling death; still susceptible to the overhand chop.

 

The kick flip is like the high back flip except that as you hit the jump key, you push forward towards your opponent. Done properly, this will not only avoid damage from the incoming attack, but will inflict 20 points of kick damage on your opponent. The Good: fast; can counter-attack; may knock the opponent over. The bad: enemy has to be within kick range.

 

Notes: You are not helpless while getting up. You are free to use Force Push, Pull, Protection, Absorb and many other force powers as soon as you begin to get up. If your enemy is a little too slow to come in for the kill, you may succeed in knocking him flat with Push or Pull. Another Light Side tactic would be to turn on Force Protection as soon as you get knocked over. That way, even if you do get hit with the incoming swing it will take off far less damage. Make sure to turn it off quickly after getting up as it drains your Force pool quickly.

 

Suggestions for Additions to Saber Combat

 

- More lunge moves. The light style lunge isn't enough, though i suppose the medium finisher is arguably a lunge. They are the only hope for L & M styles to counter the range of Strong outside of force power use.

- Different moves triggered by control commands like: left, left + attack; or back, left + attack.

- Make Light style not teh sUck.

- Give Medium style more acrobatic moves. One acrobatic move hardly justifies the game manual's description of medium style as including "acrobatics".

- Allow interactive parries to occur. (When opponent attacks) + Back would allow you to knock the enemy saber aside and

counter.

- After balancing the stances against one another, change how Saber offense is "bought" with force points. Make each style cost 4 or 5 points and allow each to be bought individually with no requirement to buy the others.

- Allow kicks with No-Force ruleset.

[Raith]

Sweet post!

 

It wasnt until I was over halfway down I realised you were being serious this time

[Jman3ooo]

I voted none cause most of that i know after hanging on duel servers.

[Lord Nodata]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

- Downward swings break through defenses better than upwards or sideways swings.

 

I have to disagree with this, and for one simple reason. There is a swing in the strong (red) stance that has won me more duels than ANY other swing (INCLUDING the jumping lunge from strong stance.) What is this move you ask? Back+Right+Attack. It starts the swing in the lower left and moves in a direct line to the upper right of your character. This move is great for one reason. Since it starts in the lower left (and I mean LOWER left) you can often run past your opponent on their left side, and your swing will often connect to thier feet...by-passing most defense.

 

Also, I would like to add something to the list here.

 

During any saber battle, if you HEAR your saber connect (you know the clashing noise you here when 2 sabers hit each other), if you pres the attack button AGAIN, AS SOON AS YOU HEAR THE CLASH, then you will swing another time. This goes for strong stance as well. I have even managed to pull off a spinning strike in the strong stance by doing this. Allowing for 2 100+ damage hits in a combo!

[VeX_5150]

Yeah I've gotten quite a few kills with that, esp when you run by the oppenent and end up hitting their legs from behind. Also good against ppl recovering from heavy finisher.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Lord Nodata

 

I have to disagree with this, and for one simple reason. There is a swing in the strong (red) stance that has won me more duels than ANY other swing (INCLUDING the jumping lunge from strong stance.) What is this move you ask? Back+Right+Attack. It starts the swing in the lower left and moves in a direct line to the upper right of your character. This move is great for one reason. Since it starts in the lower left (and I mean LOWER left) you can often run past your opponent on their left side, and your swing will often connect to thier feet...by-passing most defense.

 

Also, I would like to add something to the list here.

 

During any saber battle, if you HEAR your saber connect (you know the clashing noise you here when 2 sabers hit each other), if you pres the attack button AGAIN, AS SOON AS YOU HEAR THE CLASH, then you will swing another time. This goes for strong stance as well. I have even managed to pull off a spinning strike in the strong stance by doing this. Allowing for 2 100+ damage hits in a combo!

 

good info. I'll make sure to edit my post and add a saber lock section--forgot that initially

[[QGA]Vertigo]

Hmm... interesting..

 

Tried out a few of those moves and I already noticed a good boost in my @$$-kickings

 

Keep the info coming !

[kold]

i suggest you change your opinion about the lightstance, its more usefull than most stances using my technique, if you dont believe me email me and ill care to show you what it is (dont really want anyone else to know this technique or combo)

[Guest HertogJan]

Great post Artifex, I voted for "a lot", although I knew most of this stuff already... It's good to here it over and over again though, I always forget kicks are great! You can also jump on someones head and he will be kicked over too, if you don't land on his saber that is!

 

Oh yeah, I have another one!

 

- Force grip someone and hold it almost straight above your head, a little bit to you front

- When you let go of the grip key, or your force runs out, look straight ahead INSTANTLY!

- With a bit of luck, your opponent will land on your saber

This works best with the strong stance!

[Azraelt]

I don't agree with you when you say the heavy stance is the experienced stance and that most good people use it.

 

1) Most n00bs use it because of DFA

2) It almost 1 hit kills you with most moves, all you need for that is timing. It's not hard to use that.

2)HUGE range

3) It leaves you open after every hit

4) It's simple to avoid

5) DFA requires no skill to use at all, if you spam it you will eventually hit. Even if you don't spam it, it's simple.

6) the strikes knock you down, (sarcasm on)it sure requires alot of skill to crush a downed enemy with a saber strike! (sarcasm off)

 

I believe medium stance is the most skill required stance in the game.

 

1) Moves do moderate damage, so you need to be aware when you can get in there and attack so it will hit

2) More thought required to do some combo's.

3) The finishing move requires much more skill to use, but when used effectively it is great.

4) It requires more skill to use this stance as it is not one hit kill. You need to be aware of the enemy's movement and have good map awareness.

 

Example of number 4:

I was playing in yavin, in one of the red tunnels, I was dueling a sith, me of course being Jedi. He was in strong stance, I was in Medium. He came towards me, did DFA, I wall ran until I got behind him, then turned and did the medium special move, he died.

 

Later on in that same map, I was fighing another Jedi, he came in and DFAed us both. Wow, so much skill there.

 

I believe this stance is a real "Jedi" and not a "Sith" stance since you must be patient and let them come to you. Alot of the times I just wait for them to charge at me in their heavy or medium stances and just side step and slash right across the chest.

 

I knew most of those moves anyways.

[BrainStorm]

lets see... copy... paste.... print....

 

A-HA! I will study this and then I will be coming after you Artifex!!!

 

j/k!!!

 

I do appreciate the info. I am always looking to improve my sabering skills.

[Guest HertogJan]

You must be one of those "medium stance finishing move spammers"

 

There's no point in saying "this stance requires the most skills, the other ones are for n00bs", every stance has it's pro's and con's. I find it a lot harder to aim attacks with the strong stance than with the medium stance.

 

You can't deny that strong needs more aiming (since you only can strike once), but you also can't deny that the strong finishing move is very easy to use!

 

BTW, I never spam moves, it gets boring for me when I do that. I use the stance/move that suits the situation best. When I see the chance to finish them of with the 1-strike-kill, I do it (like when people are stuck in the pit in duel maps).

[kold]

heh when i saw that he called light stance a n00b stance and heavy stance an experienced stance i was about to laugh -_-

but then again i use all stances

but heavy indeed in my experience is the easiest way to get rid of ppl

light on the other hand for me is kept as my desperation arsenal

[ArtifeX]

I agree with you that medium requires more skill to use to be successful. I also think that light style requires more skill to be successful than even medium style. That's because each style is successively less powerful. You pretty much drive my point home by yourself. If the strong stances moves are a.- easier and b.- have more range and c.- do more damage, then why use medium style in the first place if your goal is to win?

 

Originally posted by Azraelt

I don't agree with you when you say the heavy stance is the experienced stance and that most good people use it.

 

1) Most n00bs use it because of DFA

2) It almost 1 hit kills you with most moves, all you need for that is timing. It's not hard to use that.

 

Sounds like a perfect reason to use it to me.

 

2)HUGE range

3) It leaves you open after every hit

 

Yes, but you can always move out of the way or jump in mid-swing. The extended range will always counterbalance the slow speed as it is now. Also, you'll get punished by "Death from Above" if you count on going in on someone after every swing.

 

4) It's simple to avoid

 

I agree that many of the strong attacks are telegraphed, but this is outweighed by the ability to go into the "DFA" attack as you call it, during any swing animation. I don't want this to turn into another flame war, but the forward+left attack in strong is actually faster to hit than many medium attacks. How is that simple to avoid?

 

5) DFA requires no skill to use at all, if you spam it you will eventually hit. Even if you don't spam it, it's simple.

6) the strikes knock you down, (sarcasm on)it sure requires alot of skill to crush a downed enemy with a saber strike! (sarcasm off)

 

Again, more reasons to use strong rather than medium if your goal is to win and not role play.

 

I believe medium stance is the most skill required stance in the game.

 

1) Moves do moderate damage, so you need to be aware when you can get in there and attack so it will hit

2) More thought required to do some combo's.

 

Because they are weaker, have less range, and require you to move in a particular directional pattern to accomplish.

 

3) The finishing move requires much more skill to use, but when used effectively it is great.

 

Pretty, yes, but effective, no. 60 damage doesn't win a match. Two 60 damage hits doesn't win a match.

 

4) It requires more skill to use this stance as it is not one hit kill. You need to be aware of the enemy's movement and have good map awareness.

 

 

 

Again I don't disagree with you. But I think you'll agree with me that if the strong style is "easier" as you say, then you should be able to get more kills with Strong over Medium.

 

Please don't turn this thread into a flame war. It's purpose is to reveal as many saber moves as possible to everyone, and to keep the saber combat from becoming stagnant for those who want to win matches rather than role-play.

 

If you have some medium stance moves/tactics to add, then please, post them, but don't proclaim the superiority of one stance over the other without some specifics.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by HertogJan

Great post Artifex, I voted for "a lot", although I knew most of this stuff already... It's good to here it over and over again though, I always forget kicks are great! You can also jump on someones head and he will be kicked over too, if you don't land on his saber that is!

 

Oh yeah, I have another one!

 

- Force grip someone and hold it almost straight above your head, a little bit to you front

- When you let go of the grip key, or your force runs out, look straight ahead INSTANTLY!

- With a bit of luck, your opponent will land on your saber

This works best with the strong stance!

 

I'm pretty much trying to keep force powers out of the post. I only included the bit about push and the strong finisher because so many people have trouble countering it.

 

Also, that grip thing will only do around 5 to 15 damage.

[Taicat]

Hmmm, nothing about throw combos?

 

NICE POST, Artifex!

 

One of my fav moves is to throw when in close, step left or right, and follow up with a slash or two to their side then kick while in Medium stance. Since I'm in close, the saber returns almost immediately, allowing me to chain additional moves behind it.

 

I also use throw to discourage someone who is rolling towards me, trying to get behind me. Throw and jump, pivot in mid air so I'm facing their back, and attack them.

 

Throw also comes in handy (for me, anyway) against someone who's jumping all over the place. Since they're limited in a directional sense while in the air, I throw where they're going to (eventually) land. It's all timing and anticipation at this point...

 

Want to point out that I'm *not* a throw-spammer; I use it tactically so I can either slow them down or so I can get in close.

 

Of course, none of this is valid on a NF server... I'll use a roll and the 'special' light or medium stance move to change things up in that case. (Ahh, if only I could kick-flip)

 

A quick comment aimed at those who don't like to 'share' their approach/tactics: it's your perogative, of course, but if you're even half as good as you claim you are, sharing wouldn't/shouldn't make a difference in your scores. IMO, knowing HOW to execute a move isn't the same as knowing WHEN to execute it....please note that this is not a flame, but merely a comment.....

[Tree]

The saber stances are unbalanced.

 

The same reason light stance is useless is the same reason strong stance is overpowered. Think about it.

 

Im not going to exploit a game imbalance that is so obvious. I know how easy it is to use strong stance.

 

Its like your saying here is how strong stance is overpowered and thats why I use it.

 

The finishing move requires no skill at all and I hope it gets removed.

 

it is completely being abused on every server I visit.

 

It has no draw backs. If you hit you get a kill. If you miss you don't leave your self open. You cannot aproach someone who has just done the move without dying.

 

Bahh I hope Raven balances it.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Tree

The saber stances are unbalanced.

 

The same reason light stance is useless is the same reason strong stance is overpowered. Think about it.

 

Im not going to exploit a game imbalance that is so obvious. I know how easy it is to use strong stance.

 

The finishing move requires no skill at all and I hope it gets removed.

 

it is completely being abused on every server I visit.

 

It has no draw backs. If you hit you get a kill. If you miss you don't leave your self open. You cannot aproach someone who has just done the move without dying.

 

Bahh I hope Raven balances it.

 

I do agree with you. I think the hit-box algorithms with that move are really screwy. It is possible to counter it, but it's a lot more difficult than it should be. The frightening thing is that you can bind an alias that will pull the move off every time. This move really doesn't bother me too much, but I know it's really, really tough for someone just starting out because of the hit weirdness.

 

I know you're not a newb, tree. Don't think that was aimed at you.

[VeX_5150]

Tree that's a good point. You'd think the heavy style would somehow be harder to use and would take more skill. It would still be as powerful, but not everyone could figure it out in 5 minutes.

[creamy]

medium stance special: the recovery time is long yes but in sp there is a way to circumvent the reccovery time when doing the flip just after u are in mid air start pushing back + jump button he will instantly do a backflip thus no recovery time and u get out of the way. but sadly this is only doable in sp

[tam]

i'de like to point out some modifactations to those moves

 

1) light is not useless, its good against runners/jumpers

 

2) heavy special move and medium special move can be done by slashing, and at the end of the slash, press jump + attack and u'll do the special move.

 

quite easier than pressing jump attack and forward when close

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by creamy

medium stance special: the recovery time is long yes but in sp there is a way to circumvent the reccovery time when doing the flip just after u are in mid air start pushing back + jump button he will instantly do a backflip thus no recovery time and u get out of the way. but sadly this is only doable in sp

 

yeah, unfortunately there are many cool moves in sp that aren't available in mp. teh suck.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by tam

i'de like to point out some modifactations to those moves

 

1) light is not useless, its good against runners/jumpers

 

Good how? please post specifics.

 

2) heavy special move and medium special move can be done by slashing, and at the end of the slash, press jump + attack and u'll do the special move.

 

quite easier than pressing jump attack and forward when close

 

the medium special variant is news to me. i'll edit and credit you with the find. thx.

[Soul-Burn]

Nice post man!

 

Tho I hope raven fixes the DFA... One thing they must do, is fix the fact that buried sabers do full damage.

 

I'd like to see a differing damage system, according to the actual force of the move.. So that you couldn't do so much damage when your saber is still moving really slow (preparing for attack, after buried)..

 

I've notice that keeping range from the enemy is very important, never stay in close contact with him or you can't defend (since you are recovering from moves)...

 

Also, I've found that if an enemy comes towards you, in most cases, you can move to the side and get a side slash in.. about 90% of the cases... Also, if they're moving towards you, a quick Medium, Left+Attack, Right is pretty useful (that's the two swing combo).

[Azraelt]

Well yes I suppose the strong stance is the best if you like to win, and only win. But with the medium stance it's fun to role play and it is also fun to do those moves. If I wanted to go through each level and do some mindless killing then I would choose strong. With medium stance I still win almost every battle, but it makes it more fun.

 

To respond to your quoted post about me:

 

Quote 1.

 

 

Yes, I am not denying that the strong stance is good to use, but it does not need the most experience or skill to play with, like I said, most n00bs use it and it does have a 1 hit kill, so it's not hard to use.

 

Quote 2.

 

The strong stance is simple to avoid, because you can tell by the bit of a wind up of the character. I've learned to judge the swing by the motion of the body before they actually start the swing. With strong stance this motion is even more prominant and much easier to see, therefor it is simpler to avoid.

 

Quote 3.

 

Yes, but it's just so lame, all you do is knock people down then go in for the kill... where is the skill in that?

 

 

Quote 4.

 

It is a finishing move. I wouldn't just go right into the move. Where is the fun in that? You would obvously attack them some, then go into that to finish them off. I don't use it often.

 

 

 

I do not mean these posts I am making as a flame, I am just stating my opinion.

 

 

 

If you have some medium stance moves/tactics to add, then please, post them, but don't proclaim the superiority of one stance over the other without some specifics

 

You did this, in your original post.

 

All the best players I've met have used this stance. This should be renamed to, "Experienced Stance"

 

You say that this is the best stance, it's the experienced stance and that all good players use it.

 

The reasons I have posted these messages is because I do not agree with that statement. In your other message, which I have quoted you said not to do that, but you have done that in your original post.

 

Anyways, I really don't have any other saber skills to add in this respect.