Compiled: All Saber Fighting Moves (huge text post)

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Vorax

 

To keep this fair, please remove this part. I understand you preffer red, but that statement is not doing anyone any good. It is very much your oppinion and it's simply not true.

 

As players skills are improving, more and more are understanding that no single stance is the one to use. Use them all. Blue definetly has it's place, as does yellow and red. I spent 2 hours dominating the duels last night with mostly blue and yellow. Obviously if it were 95% useless, I would have lost alot. But I only lost 5 out of about 40+ duels. Focusing mostly on using blue. Stance split was about 60% blue, 30% yellow and about 10% red. No, these weren't newbies (well one guy was..but he was just funny).

 

- Vorax

 

I'm being perfectly fair. I have experimented and gained a lot of experience with all 3 styles and have reported my findings complete with quantitative figures.

 

Let's split up the figures you give. If you made 10 swings of your saber, then by your figures, you made 6 blue swings, 3 yellow swings and 1 Strong swing. Multiplying that by the damage would give you 180 points of Blue damage, 180 points of Medium damage and 100 points of Strong damage. That is of course assuming that every strike connected, and also that Blue strikes land just as easily as Strong ones (Strong's increased range and defense penetration capabilies make it hit with a far higher percentage). That means that about 25% of the damage you dealt was from Strong when you were using it only 10% of the time. What does this mean? It means that when you were using Strong, you were dealing out 2.5 units of damage per unit of time. Your medium style was dealing out 0.6 units of damage per unit of time. Finally, your Light style was dealing out only 0.3 units of damage per time.

 

To follow that to its logical conclusion, you could have won your matches more than 8 times faster had you stuck to Strong style rather than Light style, and thus been able to multiply by eight the number of rounds you won in the 2 hours you were playing.

 

If you really want to convince me, then challenge me and you can show me how good blue style is. I will post a complete retraction if you beat me.

[Vorax]

About the numbers, that isn't really correct, I should have said, I used it about 10% of the time I was online. By far, in most of the fights, red was completley unused. Also by your numbers, it not quantitative if you assume they all connect. Blue has a better chance of hitting then yellow, yellow then red. Thus the damage scale they do, blue weakest, yellow medium, red strongest. Not to be predjudice against red, but becuase I was trying to master blue. Red is very easy to use as it really only has a couple of moves to get used to, but blue can be combined with so many consecutive attacks so fast that you really need to experiment with the right combinations, know those combinations and match them to your opponents style. That is what I am trying to master.

 

So...sure, I'll fight ya I am still refining my style (it's not blue, its all stances) since last week I was pretty much a yellow saberist only. But I feel confident enough to give the 'all' stance style a whirl.

 

Tell you what, look for my server when you are online (Vorax's Duel Dimension). I run it from 8pm - 7am EST, most nights. If I don't have it up, I am probably working on Maps or off doing the CTF thing (what I really play in this game).

 

My normal play hours are from 8-11pm EST.

 

If you don't see it, just play where ever you do, I will try to find you. I have several applications for scanning the online world. If you are on a server, I can find you.

 

Looking forward to it. But even if I loose (as I said, my main game is CTF) you should still find some others to experiment with before commiting to the statement. Just because so many disagree with your point on this. Infact, if you look through the posts, almost everyone.

 

 

 

- Vorax

[VeX_5150]

Wining against good players with light style???? This i must see. Everytime someone goes off on a barrage of light/med attacks, I just trip them and hack them....either that or just kick them. I'll talk to ArtifeX and make sure I see this.

[7-7ighlander]

Good info, I´m sure it helped lots of people.

Expect more of this, much more (35 kb .txt!), in my Sabre Fighting Guide, coming to a guide page near you soon.

 

Oh, 2 things:

 

1)Good players use all stances and alternate

2)fast stance is great

[Blank1234]

Nice stuff. I agree with everything you said, though some of your numbers are off.

 

As far as I can tell, light stance moves will always do 30 damage. You have the crouch-lunge move listed as 60, that's probably cause the move can hit twice (apparantly). The backstab move I *THINK* does 30 too, I've only been hit by it once when I was resetting my hotkeys and forgot to go to spectator mode The extra damage is probably from the saber 'cooking' you, if you tested vrs a non-moving opponent.

 

I think the heavy-finisher is the same deal... but haven't been able to really test that out... the move is seriously bugged. The entire animation of the thing is misleading. I've killed guys with my knees while my saber is still behind my head. Doubtful it was lag.

 

Anyways, I do find it amusing all the people who defend medium/fast stance when there's overwhelming evidence that these styles just don't match up to strong stance.

 

For starters, you actually PAY force points to get strong stance. Why would you pay for something that's weaker than the default fast stance? Logic would dictate that strong would be stronger than the other 2. No other ability do you pay for, for weaker results.

 

And most of all, who "owns" servers? Out of all my games I've ever played on all the servers. Regardless of game type, be it FFA, CTF, CTY, saber only, no-force, jedi master, jedi knight, etc etc... I've *NEVER* seen a fast saber player in the top 5, nevermind #1. It's a rarity to even see a medium style rank #1, except once in a no-force duel only server.

 

I don't think I'm the best player ever, just SHOW me the server where I can find these mystical fast/medium users owning the server.

 

Blank

[Dimitri Popov]

If your going to put it on the strategy page it should be fairly unbaiased , so id remvoe that "75% useless" stuff. The artical is great but if you keep it how it is youre basically saying : "Strong is uber 1337" to all the noobs and we will have a crap load of noobs using strong just swining in a crowd waiting for their lucky hit.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Dimitri Popov

If your going to put it on the strategy page it should be fairly unbaiased , so id remvoe that "75% useless" stuff. The artical is great but if you keep it how it is youre basically saying : "Strong is uber 1337" to all the noobs and we will have a crap load of noobs using strong just swining in a crowd waiting for their lucky hit.

 

There is no strategy guide axiom somewhere that says I can't inject my opinion into a guide that I wrote. Nor does strategy.jediknightii.net require me to remove them when I post.

 

I am trying to give others the benefit of my testing and experience. Inundating people raw figures to digest without the quick and dirty, "This is 95% useless," would be a far less effective way of getting the point across.

 

I am not saying here that, "Strong is uber l337". I am saying that it is more effective if your aim is to win rather than just look pretty. The saber styles are not balanced. Light is less effective than Medium is less effective than Strong. This is the way the designers intended it to be judging by how access to these styles are bought.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Vorax

About the numbers, that isn't really correct, I should have said, I used it about 10% of the time I was online. By far, in most of the fights, red was completley unused. Also by your numbers, it not quantitative if you assume they all connect. Blue has a better chance of hitting then yellow, yellow then red.

 

I'm sorry. You are just wrong. Blue is the single hardest stance to hit with. If you read my post, then you saw the section where I describe that the Light style's ability to hit is so pathetic that you can render yourself invulnerable to it by simply squatting with your back to a corner. You obviously have not tested your theory.

 

Thus the damage scale they do, blue weakest, yellow medium, red strongest. Not to be predjudice against red, but becuase I was trying to master blue. Red is very easy to use as it really only has a couple of moves to get used to, but blue can be combined with so many consecutive attacks so fast that you really need to experiment with the right combinations, know those combinations and match them to your opponents style. That is what I am trying to master.

...(snip)...

 

Looking forward to it. But even if I loose (as I said, my main game is CTF) you should still find some others to experiment with before commiting to the statement. Just because so many disagree with your point on this. Infact, if you look through the posts, almost everyone.

 

- Vorax

 

I'll look for you tonight.

[Twins of Doom]

aww, when i read the title i was like..YES FINALLY

 

and then i read it............i knew it all:(

 

oh well, it's a good reference and it's good for newbs;)

 

i'm on a school computer right now and can't play multiplayer at home because my modem for wireless internet got fried..........:(

 

the only good thing from that was that i beat single player:P:D

[Vorax]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

 

I'm sorry. You are just wrong. Blue is the single hardest stance to hit with. If you read my post, then you saw the section where I describe that the Light style's ability to hit is so pathetic that you can render yourself invulnerable to it by simply squatting with your back to a corner. You obviously have not tested your theory.

 

 

 

I'll look for you tonight.

 

I agree if someone is squatted down in the corner, but that would be a boring fight. I am talking about 2 active players. It's very easy to connect with blue becuase it's swipe is so fast and you are not left unprotected for more the a 1/4 of a second in most cases. You get back into defense mode very quickly. You are only open to attack when attacking (assuming lvl 3 force defense), that is what blue is good for. I think you need some testing on that one. Obviously they had to tone down the amount of damage it does, or fights would be timed in seconds rather then minutes.

 

I had hoped to see you online when I posted this. I may get a chance to go on tonight, but I am not sure...Taxes are due here in Canada I am also heavy into the mapping for the WLS JK2 map pack, since the GDK was released. I haven't actually played in days now... Would someone out there like to fund my gaming? I need more time and this work stuff is really starting to get in the way

 

- Vorax